Optima - Did I get a bad one? | FerrariChat

Optima - Did I get a bad one?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by DGS, Feb 10, 2005.

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  1. DGS

    DGS Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2003
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    I went down to the 328 to check something for another thread and discovered that the battery is dead. This is a new Optima Red Top installed this last September. The car's been sitting since November sometime (when it got too cold for the S03s).

    After an hour's charging (12v charge voltage), it was still only up to 10.9 volts, oops 10.85, 10.84, 10.83 ... It shouldn't be dropping with the car disconnected, should it?

    I checked, the car's load (turned off) is about 50mA (about right for the recovery system, I'd guess). (I wanted to make sure the remote stereo amp still turned off with the dash switch (which used to also operate the built-in radar detector I had removed at the same time the new battery was installed).

    I've got it charging some more, but the dropping voltage readings don't bode well, methinks.

    Anyone else have an "infant mortality" issue with Optimas?
     
  2. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
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    Franklin E. Parker
    That's what you get for not driving your Ferrari for 3 months!
     
  3. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
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    Jun 25, 2003
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    My 328 will go about two months before is drains the Optima. I really have not let it go for more than two weeks since last year, and it seems fine.

    I don't know on the re-charging. if weather permits, take a ride and test it when you return.
     
  4. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    Obviously I can't speak for your battery, but this is a problem that has been reported many times on the Jaguar-lovers website with the Optima Red Tops. Apparently, these batteries are damaged if they are allowed to fully discharge, and some will not hold a charge after that. On Jag-lovers, those with Red Tops recommend that you install a trickle charger when the car is going to be sitting, or disconnect the battery to prevent it from discharging. I've heard you tale of woe many times on Jag-lovers, so methinks your Red Top is toast.

    Sorry.
     
  5. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 19, 2002
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    You know... I'd have to say, I concur. In years past, optima red top batteries were the expert consensus. I frankly don't think I would put one in my 308/328 now.

    Though "maintenance free," I experienced the exact same voltage drop you described below. Made me crazy! It was with my old 308. What was happening was, I was getting 10/11V (You want 12.5 +/-, right). The FUEL PUMP was positively not doing its job right below a certain threshold cutoff voltage, say 11V. So the car wouldn't start. Hooked the fuel pump up directly via a fused, wired connection to my SAAB's battery (rest 308 stayed on its own battery). Fuel pump sucked properly, car started.

    I then pulled the battery, brought it back to... Autozone, or Peb Boys, one of the two. They tested it, and it objectively failed their test, so they replaced it. Apparently, the battery got damaged for some reason, and lost a cell or something. It wouldn't hold a full charge.

    Now, at that time, I was doing a lot of electrical work, tracing down a short, resulting in a lot of blown fuses during the trace. It's possible I mucked something up then.

    But I can't help but feel a new Interstate battery is going to do the car justice and be more robust against discharge. I never really saw the benefits of the optima red top; just the negatives.

    Just a new data point for folks, and I wanted to confirm that my red top did in fact have low-voltage / charge-retainment issues that were objectively confirmed by a battery test station.


    HTH,

    --Mike
     
  6. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
    17,913
    USA
    Had a Optima red top in my 78 308 GTS for a bit over three years. Worked great, no problems, and never charged it (that I can remember). Of course I drove my car often...it never sat more than two or three weeks at most; and was typically driven three or four times per week.

    Seems the yellow top may be the better choice for cars that sit for long periods...but bottom line, Ferraris seem to have a LOT of residual drain going on when they sit (well, maybe not 308's). Seems a battery tender is mandatory regardless of battery type.

    I currently have an Interstate 34R in my 355, installed last summer by the previous owner (at FNA dealer). I use a battery tender anytime I am not planning on driving the car for more than a few days. Will see how long this battery lasts...but I would still be inclined to get an Optima when replacement time comes around.

    The only person I know of (personally) that has had to replace on Optima, had a bad alternator that was not charging properly.
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    I have had several red tops go bad in recent months (all bought less than 2 years ago). In previous years I never replaced them. I wonder if there has been a change in quality?

    Also it never hurts to check the static drain on your car especially with how common aftermarket electronics are in Ferrari's. No model should have more than 40ma with nothing on and most will be under 25.
     
  8. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    Han Solo
    I use a battery disconnect switch when the 308 sits for any length of time. No parasitic drain from onboard computers but I know the electric clock will drain the battery down well below 12 volts in just over a month. Disconnected, a battery should hold it's charge for months and months, no different than sitting on a shelf.

    (.........................and before you start ranting about not driving my car enough FRANK, you might consider the fact that some of our cars aren't as pristine as your Boxer and may require heavy winter maintenance or extended periods of disassembly for upgrades and rebuilds.)

    I also heard from a battery guru that if an Optima of any type Red, Yellow or Blue is overcharged and caused to overheat and "gas", it is toast. Time to buy another.
     
  9. JamesH

    JamesH Formula Junior

    May 11, 2001
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    How does one check the static drain on a car. Do you take one cable off and run a voltmeter with one lead on the disconnected cable and the other on the battery post.
     
  10. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,367
    NY
    I guess I got a lucky electrical system. I bought a new Interstate bat. 3 years ago after the 8 year old bat in the car dropped a cel. I did the NAPA fuse conversion and never looked back. Just had a nice day this past week end so I went in an started the 308 up. It cranked up without any problem. Its been sitting for a month in a 30 deg. garage. I also rebuilt the alt and did the 85A upgrade about the same time I got the bat. Also for us carb guys you know how you need to crank these to get them started. Never jumped or needed a bat tender. Like I say maybe lucky. Enjoy the ride
     
  11. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    Yes, exactly. The negative cable.
     
  12. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    Han Solo
    Sounds like your system is healthy, as it should be. I like to crank mine over with no gas for about 15 seconds or so just to get some oil up in the galleys before it fires. The starter will probably wear out quicker but those are cheaper than engines so...........................
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Except that the measurement is made with the multimeter operating as an ammeter, not as a voltmeter (but we knew what you meant).
     
  14. DGS

    DGS Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2003
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    Thanks for the feedback, guys.

    After about 3 hours of charging (with a good charger -- gel cell setting), the battery was up to 11.3V. After an hour of sitting with the car disconnected, it read 10.7V.

    So it looks like it may be time to go back to an Interstate or ... I've had good luck in the past with a battery from NAPA, in the way hot engine bay of a Celica turbo. An unreliable source told me that the same company that makes NAPA's batteries makes batteries for submarines, FWIW. But it didn't much out-last the warranty in the turbo oven.

    But I read 52mA of "car off" load on the 328 even at 11V, so I better check that the (internally switched) stereo amp isn't drawing too much. There's also the five year old recovery system and the stock clock ... but that should be about it when the car's off.

    Anyone know the tech characteristics of a "trickle" charger? After a bit of research in the tech library 25 years ago, I built a lead-acid battery rejuvenator that can stretch out an older battery better then most chargers. (Actually, pulsed charging works better than regulated DC on conventional batteries, as the pulses help dislodge chemical deposits on the plates.) But it's probably easier to mail order a Schumacher or something, as I'm already playing with ignition system options.

    I had good luck with Sears' Die Hards for quite a while, but my last one fell apart internally after being exposed to the Celica's engine bay. But the older (trunk mounted) one in the Alfa is still chugging along after more than a decade: after sitting in the garage in MA for more than five months, it started right up when Passport picked it up. (But then, the Alfa has zero load when it's off -- not even a clock.)

    The last time I drove the 328, I locked up both front tires stopping from 20MPH -- which told me that it was way too cold for summer tires. I've got made-in-Finland Nokians on the EVO for the winter, but I don't have a spare set of rims for the 328 for winter tires. ;)

    And the last time I ran it, I had ignition problems. I'm running out of dithering time -- I'm going to have to decide between fixing or replacing the ignition system.
     
  15. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    You can pick up a decent automatic trickle charger at Sears for about $25 to $30. You can connect the leads to the battery terminals and leave them connected, just plug in the cord from the trickle charger to the leads in the car when you park the car, plug the trickle charger into a wall outlet and you're all set. The unit has automatic circuitry that senses when charging is required and prevents overcharging. You can probably get a similar unit, similarly priced, from some of the catalogues like JC Whitney, Summit Racing, etc.
     
  16. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    A few things to keep in mind here;

    Letting the battery drain all the way or nearly all the way down is not the best thing for it. Sitting 3 months will do it. That will drain it totally. Each time that happens it's that much closer to the scrap heap.

    Just pull the ground strap if you have one. The 308 QVs have one behind the driver's side headlight. If you are going to park it for a while just pull it off. The battery should be fine later.

    Do not forget, If that battery is dead and you get it jumped off and started, recharging it is very tough on the alternator. It's better to use a battery charger then to recharge it by driving the car. I put one in down by the battery and ran a cord over to the grill. I just plug it in to keep a charge. That is the easiest thing to do in general.

    You probably didn't get a bad battery, you just killed a good one.
     

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