F1 2004 DEBUT LAP RECORD ! ! | Page 2 | FerrariChat

F1 2004 DEBUT LAP RECORD ! !

Discussion in 'F1' started by fiorano, Jan 30, 2004.

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  1. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    great just what we need...another boring F1 season...looks like i'll have to wait another year to become an F1 fan...yawn...zzzzzzzzzz

    Tom
     
  2. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

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    OK, bye!
     
  3. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
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    I cant wait till the season starts. I wish i wouldve had a Ferrari loving teacher in High School when i went there Rob.
     
  4. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes struggled: If it hadn't rained in Indy and Suzuka Kimi would have gotten the title. We just got lucky.

    I'm currently watching the 2003 FIA tape and it is interesting to see the season with all its ups and downs. You realize how darn lucky we got all through the year. Kimi screwed up twice in qualifying (remember the new mode where everybody said it was against Ferrari) and you could say Mc Laren lost it as well in Barcelona as in Zeltweg.

    The review also shows how damn good MS really is. Sitting out the fire in Zeltweg is something few would have done.
     
  5. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
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    Budding F1 fan here, the more I look into it, the more exciting it is! Especially after having the love for the road cars, and now, as my second season watching, Im so interested to see that it is going to be super competitive eh? I hope that the relatively modest changes to the Fcar still leave it extremely competitive;) What do you all think? will the radical new BMW make it a much faster vehicle? Ferrari still has the best driver, too bad they cant have JPM too!
     
  6. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

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    So Kimi can't drive in the rain? Or does he need tons of luck for himself and hard luck for everyone else? MS didn't have the best "luck" in racing either. You can't say a team won both championships by having luck. OK, am I not an F1 racer because I have bad luck? No, it's because I'm not good enough. And this past year KR was not good enough. I think 2004 will be very close btween MS and KR. Damn close.
     
  7. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The Bridgestone tires had an advantage over the Michelins in wet conditions.

    Look at the horrible qualifying position from MS ind Indy, only the chaos the rain brought during the race saved him.

    In Suzuka at some point in the race Kimi had the title. Then lost it again.

    Don't get me wrong: I'm a Ferrari fan (that should be obvious) and think MS is the better driver than Kimi. But Ferrari didn't win the 2003 titles convincingly. They were good, but they also had a lot of luck on their side. And luck is something you shouldn't count on. It might turn the other way this year.

    Look at the season again and tell me whether you still don't think they struggled. Only after several races did MS get on top of the charts. And then not by much. The fact that the battle went to the last race shows you that it was not a dominating season. Which was fine by me btw.
     
  8. rudy

    rudy Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2004
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    Don't you think the new points scoring system had a lot to do with the close call? Also, a win is a win. You can't be overwhelmingly dominant every year. I'm interested whether Bridgestone will get their act together this year. Also, Ruben has got to keep his cars together this year. I heard Juan Pablo broke his face recently.
     
  9. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oh absolutely. You're quite right on that, the point system had a big influence in this.

    The point I'm trying to make is, that Ferrari did struggle in 2003 to clinch the title. It wasn't a walk in the park as the previous year. And at the end there was some good luck involved.
     
  10. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

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    Again with the luck! You do know there is no such thing as luck, right? I could win a kabillion dollars then get hit by a MACK truck! So would I be lucky or unlucky? 2 random events that were at the opposite end of the "I want this to happen to me" scale. Thats all. As for luck on track, you make your own luck, meaning: race hard all the way to the end of the season then practice and train and work some more in the off season to get ready for it again.
     
  11. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

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    Sorry Impalla;

    I dont teach at high school i teach at a technical trade school.

    Rob
     
  12. rudy

    rudy Formula Junior

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    Absolutely. I hope they can get some power of that crate this year. they always seem so marginal on horespower.
     
  13. rudy

    rudy Formula Junior

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    Unlucky....definitely unlucky.
     
  14. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

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    In the tradeoff between horsepower and reliability. I would take Reliability any day. In order to score points you have to cross the finish line. Ferrari has been doing an excellent job of keeping the motor together for a full race.

    One thing to think about here is Ferrari has not had a engine melt down durring a race since the USGP in 2001.

    Rob
     
  15. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I second all that. In the recent years the BMW has been the strongest motor, but has also had some fantastic grenading.

    I think this year we will see a different picture. For two reasons:

    a) With one engine per weekend everybody will have to get serious about reliability.

    b) Williams will really fight for the WC this year. Not that they didn't in the past, but this time it is realistically within grasp and they know it. They will risk a lot less and look more like Ferrari.

    Interestingly Ruben's engine blew at a recent testing session. We're all probably on the fine edge between victory and desaster.
     
  16. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

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    I think that Ferrari had a few melt downs last year in testing also. The key thing is to try the new parts in testing and ensure that they are solid and sound before you put them on the track.

    Sure this may cost some big bucks to blow up an engine but the dyno will not show all of the weak points inside of a motor. Only track testing can prove the reliability of an engine.
     
  17. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    All true of course.

    I really wonder how this season is going to play out. It will be interesting to see all the engines blowing up in practice/qualifying and the drivers then go 10 spots backwards on the grid.

    To some degree we might even get to see a smaller version of my 'reversed grid' idea. See some top drivers work their ways through the field in the race will be so refreshing.
    :)
     
  18. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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    I just love how the racing forum seems to change its opinions on a daily bases on how Ferrari is going to do this year in F1. This just proves that the general public's perception of reality are truly media driven. When Ferrari debut their F-2004 without visible revolutionary designs changes, some of the fellow members were freaking out and ready to hand over the WDC and WCC to team Williams. And now with a few lap records by MS, the tune changes almost immediately. I know that it is fun and part of the fun of being a Tifosi, and to speculate and talk about what we all feel really passionate about, and that is Ferrari and F1. But don't you all think we are jumping ahead of the gun a little again, except this time, onto the other end?
    I think the opinions shared here on the Bridgestones are a little bit harsh. I agree that things didn't work out for the team the way they had hoped for. But it is not really their fault, and I am almost sure that I don't think Bridgestone wants to be known as the reason had Ferrari lost the 2003 WC. My understanding on the reasons that the F-2003GA did not lay the rest of the field to waste was that the car was designed with different Bridgestone compounds for the front and rear in mind, which FIA had baned in May last year. As you all know, any small changes can make a big difference on the behavior of a car, and the changes to tyres is a huge one. Anyway, the team and Bridgestone were send scrembling to rebalance the car, and that is not easy to do in mid-season with any car and any team. Needless to say, this also affects the in-season development of the car greatly as well. The F-2003GA was also designed with a longer wheelbase than F-2002 and now the F-2004, but again, that was in anticipation of different tyre compounds front and rear. To be honest with you, I am amazed at how MS and Ferrari was able to stay cool and win the WC together. To me, that showed a lot of character, poise, maturity and most of all, determination from MS. He may not be the best ever, but he is right there with the truely all time greats such as JMF, J.Clark, or A.Ascari etc. Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that there are a lot of variables in F1, some natural and some un-natural causes such as weather and politics. Yes, there are also some luck (weather being part of it) involved, but that is all part of the game and the nature of the beast. It was as much Michillen's own fault for not having a competitive rain tyre for its teams as it was for Ferrari to be "lucky" that it rained on those faithful race days. F1 is the most ultimate form of racing to date, it is won and lost by the teams and the gladiators sitting behind the wheel, not by luck or the media. Also, lets face the facts here, we as fans are NOT really part of the team. We don't know and we don't have any real access to what the car will and will not do under certain conditions. We don't know what developments are coming or going. And if I dare to say so, I don't think anyone of us has a wind-tunnel at home to fit even a match box model into. :)
    With all that being said, I still feel that the 2004 season is going to be one for the ages, it has all the makings of a great season on the horizon. Designers taking chances, young drivers maturing and ready to jump at the opportunity to take over the mantle as experiences and team tactics plays a major role. Not to mention the involvement of corporate politics from all the manufactures. A WC is not won during the off season testing, if that was the case, even Zakspeed could have been WC. Just because Big Mac is not making testing times public doesn't mean they are not going to be right there in the thick of things. It is my opinion that we should never count out the BAR/Honda, Toyota and even Jordan so quickly. The snobbish attitude toward the non-Europeans has to stop, let us not forget that the Japanese manufactures has proven themselve time after time in every form of motorsports. How quickly do we forget about the Honda engines of the 80's and the early 90's. Even if they don't fight for the WC this year, they can easily play a major role on the outcome for the year, especially with all the rule changes and the current point system. As a Tifosi, needless to say, my hopes are with Ferrari and MS. But this is afterall, Formula One. Thank you for letting me share my thoughts, good day. Gentlemen and ladies.
     
  19. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    A few points Anthony, as I feel to some degree spoken to:

    - My opinion does indeed change and that is driven mostly by one reporter, Roger Benoit from Blick. I think this particular guy knows more about F1 than anybody outside of F1. His opinion changes based on the test results he witnesses. So to some degree this is natural.
    - I give you that there is a lot of noise and speculation. Also coming from me, no question. But hey, I'm F1 deprived right now. I'm starving for the next race. :)
    - What amazes me about Ferrari is how patient they have been with Bridgestone. The problem with the Michelins being superior didn't happen overnight and Bridgestone still seems to be trailing. If I were Ferrari, I would have probably long shifted to the other manufacturer.
    - What Bridgestone did with using different components at the front and rear was illegal and everybody knew it. The competition looked the other way as at the beginning of the season Ferrari was not doing well and because Michelin was cheating themselves. Only when Ferrari called the Michelin bluff, did they reciprocate and expose the Bridgestone case. So in essence Ferrari was gambling, that nobody would expose them. So I have little sympathy for their mid season struggle.
    - Toyota is a European team, not a Japanese one. Their headquarter is near Cologne, Germany and that's where it is run from. Doesn't really matter to me though. I don't have a snobbish attitude towards them. I respect them highly as they build the entire car.
    - I agree that this season is going to be really amazing. Whether we win or not, I can't say. My guess is, we won't, but it should be very interesting to watch and that to me is worth more than a foregone conclusion.
     
  20. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    Tifosi12,

    -My post is not to single you out in anyway. You have been one of the more passionate and more outspoken gents on this forum, and it has been really fun and enlightening reading your posts and even exchange a few different perspectives with you in the past. If I made you feel as if I am starting something with you, I sincerely apologize.

    -I don't know who Mr. Roger Benoit is, and in no way am I trying to discredit you or him on his reports in anyway. I am just saying that the media has a tendency to over dramatize things, and that often than not, unless you are a true insider, it is hard to know what is really going on. The truth of the situation will usually not be revealed a year or 2 later, if at all. We all read and believe in whatever we want, there is nothing wrong with that. I, being cynical in nature, find what's happening on the forum in the past week or so, rather entertaining. :)

    -I have to disagree with you on the issue about Bridgestone (shocking, I know) :) I think it is great that they are staying with them to some extend as I am huge on the issues of loyalty. If I remember correctly, Bridgestone did come out of the corner fighting when they came back into F1 in the mid 90's. And they too leap frogged another manufacture (Goodyear) within 2-3 years time. I think development takes time, especially when there is a sudden major change of course on ideas or design philosophy. I personally think that a major part of the strength of team Ferrari is consistency and having the patiences to see thing through. Case in point, Bobby Rahul gave up on Honda too quickly despite of Honda's history in other forms of motorsports, and he paid for it dearly about his business decision. And you said it yourself, if it was not for the fact that Bridgestones were better in the wet, Ferrari would have lost the WC. Until Bridgestone is simply out classed at every turn, I would like to see Ferrari stay with them. I enjoy seeing different tyre manufactures in the sport.... At least until they start to make me pulling my hair out on the early sunday mornings.

    -Bridgestone was doing what Michelin did the year before, as we all know, there are plenty of politics within the world of F1. And there are also plenty of cheating going on as well, in a strange sort of way, F1 encourages that. There is a fine line between pushing the envelope and stretching the rules when you are at the peak of engineering evolution.

    -I have a different perspective on orgin of a team. Yes, Toyota F1 team is based in Germany, but the team is still funded, owned and operated by Toyota Corp of Japan. I consider Jaguar to be a US/Ford team (I know I am going to take a lot of heat on this one already, haha) becasue they are owned by Ford. And until the day that Mercedes or BMW of the recent era wins a race in their own F1 car, those cars on the podium will forever be McLaren or Williams with British orgin. Just think, if Toyota wins a GP, are they going to play German national anthem or are they going to play the Japanese national anthem. The same way pizza is still Italian food in orgin, even if it comes from Pizza Hut or Uno's in Chicago. During the Barnard era, did you also consider Ferrari to be a British team? To me, I believe in giving credit where credit is due, Toyota F1 team is a Japanese team based in Germany with a staff made of people all over the world. A BMW build in N.C. is still a German car, and a Toyota design by CALTY is still a Japanese car. But that is just my POV on this topic.
     
  21. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Anthony, no worries. No offense taken. I'm exuberant, no surprise there with a screen name of tifosi. Reporters have to sell newspapers, so their stories are not always what's going on, no question. I noticed myself how we went from totally hopeless to there is a real chance for the WC this year. I'm still not convinced, but anyway.

    F1 rules are not always very clear. That's how tire manufacturers (especially Michelin) gets away with cheating by creating in essence a slick tire. Bridgestone tried a different route, they got caught. Too bad.

    You're quite right about Toyota, obviously they would play the Japanese anthem. I still consider them German as that's where the brain power sits. Barnard's Ferrari is IMHO still Italian, but I get your point.

    Anyway, I enjoy a spirited debate. After all isn't that one of the main reasons for a chat board?

    ...if we could only fast forward to Melbourne. Sigh.
     
  22. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

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    Here is some of rubens comments about the F2004 from his test session at Mugello over the weekend. Rubend ran mostly in the wet conditions but did get a lap time to within .3 of a second of the record on a green track.

    "

    Rubens Barrichello

    Ferrari's new car is better 'in every area,' according to Rubens Barrichello.

    Number-two to world champion Michael Schumacher, the aforementioned Brazilian got his first try at the controls of F2004 at Italy's Mugello track last week.

    'My first impressions are positive,' Rubens told reporters, 'even though it might be a bit early to say. But I think we have made improvements everywhere.'

    Barrichello, in his early-thirties, completed just 56 laps - in the rain - on Friday but got a few drier-tours the following afternoon en route to a 1.21.270.

    He admitted that he couldn't 'push the limit' on Bridgestone's intermediates.

    'But I think the new engine seems more powerful anyway,' Rubens added."
     
  23. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

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