Buyers & Sellers Beware: CNC Motorcars, Upland California | FerrariChat

Buyers & Sellers Beware: CNC Motorcars, Upland California

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by m5guy, Dec 12, 2020.

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  1. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
    Ventura, CA.
    Full Name:
    Greg
    F-chatters, exercise extreme caution if dealing with CNC Motorcars in Upland. A week after the expiration of my sale agreement with them and many unfulfilled promises by their owner, I still have not been paid in full for the car I sold through them. Title has already been signed over and vehicle likely resold to new owner. Even with the engagement of my Attorney they failed to fully perform. $30K loss for me and a sad conclusion considering I originally purchased the car from them and wanted to give them the opportunity to sell the car twice.
     
    Ferrari55whoa likes this.
  2. jordanfsl

    jordanfsl Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2010
    508
    Los Angeles
    Isn't CNC a sponsor on here?

    Hopefully they reply with their side of the story and everything works out.
     
  3. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 21, 2005
    2,593
    Los Gatos, CA
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    Eric
    Was it serial number 125722?
     
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  4. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
    BANNED

    Feb 25, 2013
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    Shiv
    Whoa.
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,407
    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    sorry to hear this, CNC were great sponsors for many years and just this year dropped out.
     
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  6. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
    Ventura, CA.
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    Greg
    I do not have a picture of my serial plate, but the full VIN is ZFFYT53A830132991
     
  7. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
    Ventura, CA.
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    Greg
    Their side of the story is the same as many other business this year, sadly. Rough economy, cash flow is tight, and seller's proceeds are a method of lightening the cash flow crunch. Use whatever financial KPI you are familiar with: CCC, days payable, etc, the result is the same: Breach of Contract.

    My VIN is ZFFYT53A830132991.
     
    54greg likes this.
  8. SCEye

    SCEye F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2009
    2,950
    Norcal - Peninsula
    not taking sides here but my two cents (you know about free advice on the net).
    Have you talked to them to find out why the fund is missing? So far your post is CNC didn't pay up. Maybe there's a good reason.
    Also agree with Jordan, pretty sure CNC is a sponsor (don't know how to look so I can't confirm)
     
  9. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
    Ventura, CA.
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    Greg
    #9 m5guy, Dec 12, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
    Is there really ever a "good reason" as a car dealer to receive a title release from the seller and his bank, then fail to fully remit the agreed upon sales price to the seller? I think that is called Fraud. However, I am using a nicer term "Breach of Contract" because the dealer has made many promises to cure the payment shortfall, but has not yet been able to honor any of his promises.

    My attorney and I have been in constant contact with the dealer principle since the contract expired. No need to bring his name into this as I bought the car from him in 2018. Several other fchatters here in the Ventura and Santa Barbara, CA area know me and my car. Monteman, Way2Fast, etc.

    This is a post to warn others that they should proceed with caution, especially if placing their car on consignment sale there.
     
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  10. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
    Ventura, CA.
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    Greg
    Hi Rob, the dealership owner (you know his name) and I have been in constant contact over the last week. Nice guy, tough market. Nevertheless the facts are the same. My car is gone, my title has already been signed over, and I am owed about $30K still on the sale proceeds.
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
    socal
    The 1st things failing companies do is stop marketing. They forget what made them successful and fail. I feel sorry for Greg who is a stand-up guy I completely trust. This is just another step on the way to going bankrupt...stiffing current and past clients failing to remember that the best clients are repeat clients. Wow! Sad story to a once good reputation. I guess the only thing to do it sue them before all the assets are gone. Go after the new owner stolen property by fraud so the new owner lays pressure on CNC too.
     
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  12. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    69,058
    Moot Pointe
    Maybe you can bring their buyer into the mess. The more pressure, the better, I’ve found when dealing with people like this. And the threat of criminal fraud is always worth considering although I have no idea of what the elements of criminal fraud are in your jurisdiction. There are probably others in your situation and the one with the biggest hammer usually gets paid first.
     
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  13. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Just curious, why would you release the title without payment in full? Not saying, if accurate, that what the dealer has done is appropriate, just wondering why you'd sign the title if you didn't have the cash on a big bucks deal.

    I made the same mistake once, trusted a friend not to screw me on a car deal for not much money. It's now 5 YEARS LATER and I get $100 a month, every month, from the guy to make me whole. (He did some jail time on an unrelated car scam for significantly more money.

    D
     
  14. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
    Ventura, CA.
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    Greg
    The dealer made the payment to the lienholder to obtain a title release, but stopped payment on the check to me with the intent to replace the funds with a wire that never materialized. That's the short version.
     
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  15. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
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    Greg
    The new owner of the car is not a party to this complaint. No need or relevance in bringing them into this mess.
     
  16. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Formerly a sponsor, but did not renew this year per @rob lay

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147614512/

    Sorry to hear your troubles OP. Hopefully it eventually gets sorted out.
     
  17. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    #17 dm_n_stuff, Dec 12, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
    Well that's kind of a giant turd move.

    Upside is you have his check, right? That's pretty solid evidence. Presenting a check and then not making good on it is in some states, Check Kiting, which given the dollar amount, is a felony.

    Have you been to the DA with this? EDIT - it does sometimes require a little convincing to get a DA to intervene in what many would consider more of a civil matter. I had a guy bounce a $50K check to my company once, presented it to me in person, had about $400 in his account at the time. My lawyer was pretty tight with the DA's office at the time and got it pushed into criminal court. My customer tried to have it dismissed as a civil matter, the judge wasn't having any of that. convicted him, made restitution a condition of his probation. (He had a prior for exactly the same offense in an adjoining county in PA.)

    D
     
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  18. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
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    Greg
  19. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
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    Greg
    DA? Close. I talked to the Public Defender who has slept in the bed next to me for the last 22 years. What she told me is going to have to stay confidential as the CNC dealer principle is likely also monitoring this page.
     
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  20. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    69,058
    Moot Pointe
    Obviously that’s your call but I would certainly consider it if it were my $30k at stake. My point is if he’s named that’s another headache for CNC.
     
  21. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
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    Greg
    Right now my wife's friends on the other side of City Hall are still too depressed about Early Release to worry about 1% problems like Ferrari sales.
     
  22. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    My oldest is a PD in San Bernardino County. That'd be next county east of you?

    D
     
  23. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    And, no doubt COVID and the giant monkey wrench that's tossing into the court schedule.

    D
     
  24. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
    Ventura, CA.
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #24 m5guy, Dec 12, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
    Not quite, but very close. My wife is Ventura County, in the middle is LA County, and then comes San Bernardino County which is, ironically, where the CNC Motors and Lotus West entities are registered with the Secretary of State.

    My wife used to network with a lot more criminal attorneys from surrounding counties when the continuing legal ed classes were held in classrooms. Now she just does them online.
     
  25. SCEye

    SCEye F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2009
    2,950
    Norcal - Peninsula
    ohhh. that's kind of a red flag.
    when big companies begin to neglect their expenses, that kind of smell like troubles - even when outward appearance seems OK.
     

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