Dealer says engine requires resealing due to oil leak | FerrariChat

Dealer says engine requires resealing due to oil leak

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by FiveSigma, Oct 22, 2020.

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  1. FiveSigma

    FiveSigma Rookie

    Jun 24, 2019
    5
    Hi,

    I own a 2017 GTB. Took it for an annual service and dealer informed me that the engine is leaking oil and that the only way to fix this is to take the whole engine out, reseal it, and that would cost me $19K (nineteen thousand).

    I'm a first time owner, so I'm wondering if this is legit.

    Seems a lot for potentially changing a gasket or two, even with 20 hours of labor at ~$100/hour.

    I never saw any oil spots behind or under my car.

    Car is unfortunately just off 3-yr warranty.

    Any comments or advice from other owners?

    Thanks,

    FiveSigma
     
  2. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    May 23, 2013
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    Trade it in and get a F8.
     
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  3. scuderia-seat

    scuderia-seat Karting

    Jan 27, 2018
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    late apex
    get another opinion, although it may be in the system already which all dealers could see
     
  4. Ruffinit

    Ruffinit Rookie

    Dec 15, 2013
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    Chicago
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    Shir
    When did it come off warranty? Maybe was missed on previous service? That’s BS..I would push for warranty coverage lol..if there is no visible leak how did they find it?
     
  5. buddyg

    buddyg F1 Veteran
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    Sep 20, 2004
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    Try a different dealer.
     
  6. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Veteran
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    Strike a match
     
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  7. GT2goneF

    GT2goneF F1 Rookie

    May 28, 2020
    2,861
    Southern California
    Take it to a third party reliable and reputable Ferrari certified shop for a second opinion.
     
  8. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    774
    In the case it does genuinely need that work, do it at a reputable independent unless you really want to score relationship points with the dealer.

    Because I assure you, the dealer isn't charging you $100/hr labor...
     
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  9. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    That sort of job is almost completely labor charge, gaskets aren’t that much money.
    Ask your dealer why it will take them 190 hours to do that job...that is a tech dedicated to working on that job from 9-5, no lunch and no breaks, Mon-Fri, for just shy of 5 weeks!
     
  10. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Veteran
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    So they still make STP?

    (I’m kidding)
     
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  11. wthensler

    wthensler F1 Rookie
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    Apr 27, 2015
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    #11 wthensler, Oct 23, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    Not to make light of this thread, but oh, the first world problems we have created for ourselves. An old BMW I had with 400,000 miles developed a slight oil leak. It stopped when I switched to dinosaur oil from synthetic.

    To the OP, I would have them take pics, have them tell you where the leak is, and get a second opinion.
     
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  12. superfluous

    superfluous Karting

    Oct 4, 2020
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    Dallas, TX
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    Gabe
    I realize dealers make most of their money on service, but it's **** like that that makes you never want to buy their car brand again.
     
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  13. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
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    That is really ****ty, esp as you are a first time owner.

    Id try to get an opinion and a quote from a reputable independent but mostly id see if the dealer is willing to run this under warranty. How long ago and how many miles ago did it expire?
    It says more about the car and the quality than anything else if it needs resealing after just 3 years..
     
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  14. GT2goneF

    GT2goneF F1 Rookie

    May 28, 2020
    2,861
    Southern California
    That
    I suggested exactly the same thing.
     
  15. gsholz

    gsholz Formula Junior
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    Jan 21, 2006
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    Be careful. Fixing "leaks" is one of the more common repair scams in the Ferrari world. We fall for it, because we tend to have the money and would like our cars to be perfect.

    First, I'd insist on seeing the "leak" first hand. If you have a puddle of oil on the garage floor overnight, it does need addressing. If you never see a drop on the floor, I'd be skeptical. Drive it more and you might see the seep go away.
     
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  16. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    This reminds me a lot of the time my sister's husband informed me they were about to spend nearly $2000 to repair a leak in the car I had purchased my sister for her birthday some years earlier. I called my sister and she said the sunroof was leaking and the dealer said the only way to fix it correctly was to purchase and install an entirely new one for $1700 or something crazy. I told her I could fix it for $5 with some black RTV sealant. She didn't believe me but I told her 'what do you have to lose?'. Finally I talked her into coming over. I re-sealed the gasket with RTV and it never leaked again. She sold the car 10 years later and it was still dry as could be.

    Another time (different car), she called me from the local Toyota dealer in a panic. The car wasn't running correctly and so she stopped in. They looked the car over and put it on some machines or something and then informed her it would be $3500 for a new cylinder head and camshaft and that the valves were going. She was literally on the phone crying, not knowing what to do...

    I was still half asleep in bed when she called, but I asked her "was the car running fine yesterday?" and she said, "Yes". I told her, "then it ain't the head or the valves; go home and I'll come over in an hour and take a look". She said, "No!! I can't! They told me the car could blow up if I drive it at all".

    OMG...

    I told her, "Tell the dealer to F off and go home right now; if you aren't at your house when I come over, you aren't my sister any longer" and I hung up.

    So I go over to her place and she's in a straight up panic - crying about how "we don't have $3500 right now to put into this car". So I tell her to relax and go inside and make me some coffee. I check out her Toyota and yeah it's not idling well and if you try to drive it, it won't rev out hardly at all and has a heck of a hard time going over about 30 or 40 MPH. So the first thing I do is pull each plug wire off while it's idling. On plug wire #3, no change. Hmmmm.. that's strange.

    So I take a screw driver and ground the #3 wire to the block - no spark. Check at the distributor cap and there is a spark. Hmm... very odd.

    So I go inside and ask if she has a safety pin. Finally she gets me one. I take it and start sticking it into the #3 spark plug wire and about half way up the wire, no more spark jumps out from the end of the safety pin.

    So I go back in the house and tell her "Okay, we can fix the car for $15".

    She flat out refuses to believe me. "No! It's not that simple. I told you, the dealer told me it needs a new cylinder head and a valve job, blah, blah, blah".

    Finally I convince her to drive to the local auto parts store and we buy new plugs, spark plug wires and a distributor cap, plus some carb cleaner. 20 minutes later, after cleaning the carb and installing all the parts, the car is running like an F1 formula race car.

    She still didn't believe it was fixed...

    I had to literally take her up and down the freeway at 90 MPH before she conceded that I had fixed her car. It drove fine until she sold it some years later.

    Mind you, all these people at the dealer were ASE certified mechanics. But half the time they don't know what the hell they are talking about in my experience.

    My advice would be to see exactly where the 488 is leaking oil from and ask them for some specifics as to how they diagnosed all this and what exactly they are talking about. "Re-sealing" the motor sounds rather nebulous to me. Re-sealing it where specifically? Usually Ferrari motors are pretty well put together, so I would be surprised if one was leaking oil to the extent where it needed service but wasn't leaving oil spots some place. Again, how they came to this conclusion is really important. Let's see some visual evidence of what the actual issue is, where it's leaking oil and what the source and cause of all this is.

    If it's just a little oil dripping from around a valve cover gasket or something, just put some RTV sealant in there and be done with it.

    "Re-sealing the entire engine for $20K" sounds like comedy hour to me.

    Ray
     
  17. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    Speaking of leaks.. here's something which happened to me just last week. On my pickup truck, I have been working on the motor for the last year or so and finally got around to firing it back up. Damn'd if there wasn't a small coolant leak from the back of the cylinder head area. So I get a mirror and fish around back there.. sure enough, like a dummy, I had overlooked one nut which clamps down this cast iron exhaust plate thing to the back of the head where there is a water passage affair. I tighten down the nut, but the high temp RTV sealant had already set up. I was able to resolve the leak about 95%, but I guess some water was still finding its way down along the stud where the nuts were.

    All I did to fix it was remove all the nuts, squeeze some black RTV down in there and put everything back together. It's been dry as can be ever since.

    With regard to your oil leak issue, keep in mind that the Ferrari motor uses a dry sump system. The oil is under pressure (as you can tell from the oil pressure gauge). That means if there were even the smallest leak in the pressurized system, you'd probably have vast amounts of oil disappearing from your motor. If the oil leak is internal, it would either manifest itself as issues in the coolant (usually foam) or blue smoke coming from the exhaust (you'd also be able to smell the burnt oil typically if you were driving behind the car).

    So, if you rule those two options out, it means you probably have a non-pressurized oil leak from some gasket. If that's the case, most likely only that specific area needs attention. As I mentioned above, that could be as simple as just applying a little RTV black along a seam to keep oil from weeping out.

    Again, get to the bottom of it before handing your pretty much brand new Ferrari over to these people and having them yank the motor out.

    Also, my advice - if there is some sort of leak - is to leave off the under panels and drive the car for a bit, so that you can see exactly how much of an oil leak there is and where it's coming from, etc.

    Ray
     
  18. GT2goneF

    GT2goneF F1 Rookie

    May 28, 2020
    2,861
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    I love the old fashioned diagnostics. You reminded me of how my grandfather taught me to check for current and figure out which one was the one faulting. Great job and great advice.
     
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  19. GT2goneF

    GT2goneF F1 Rookie

    May 28, 2020
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    I think somebody has shares in RTV!!!!
     
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  20. NMNMNMN

    NMNMNMN Formula Junior
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    25 minutes (with a beer and a puff or two off a joint ) 600 bucks and 3 tools in my actual kitchen drawer (not joking) and switches fixed.

    Ferrari Dealer wanted 3436 plus tax to replace the switches.

    I think I just learned what the Ferrari tax is. It is about 2800 per half hour of labor or 5600 an hour to use kitchen tools and say it will work for 2 years.

    Parts 600 bucks.

    They have better weed in the service department than I smoke.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  21. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    There's not much you can't fix with Ultrablack RTV sealant! :)

    Some years ago my friend Tony's Ferrari 355 had a windshield gasket which was peeling up; fixed it with black RTV. I use Ultrablack to assemble my entire motor usually. The stuff is just bullet proof.

    Ray
     
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  22. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Just fixed a broken reed valve on my pickup truck... what did I use? Aluminum rivets and, you guessed it, Ultrablack RTV sealant :)

    Ray
     
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  23. GT2goneF

    GT2goneF F1 Rookie

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    Gotta love practicality... Quick, easy and witty.... My kind of guy!
     
  24. GT2goneF

    GT2goneF F1 Rookie

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    Ladies and gentleman. We have RTV poster child and spokesperson.
     
  25. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    Don't even get me started on Mr. Sticky underwater glue or Permapoxy Black Plastic Weld!

    Two of the most amazing products known to man, when it comes to repairing plastics. haha

    Ray
     
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