car design thread | Page 435 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 16, 2007
    6,535
    Edwardsville, IL
    Full Name:
    Jeff Kennedy
    Although Peter is quite correct in seeing that there is a problem the "why" it happens could have been better explored.

    #1 Corporate senior management has approved all these cars throughout the development process.

    #2 The corporate board room is who selects the VP of Design. Who do they select? Are they wanting a true leader that fights for Design or the dutiful corporate cog?

    #3 Is the development process being driven by such inviolate packaging requirements (to match competitive products) that very little is left to make real aesthetic differences with?

    I continue to believe that there are good designers coming out of the right schools but they can only do what they are allowed to do. If crap is what Design and corporate management keep wanting then that is what they get. If the organization rewards the best purveyors of crap then those who tried to do better than that will figure out that crap is the pathway to advancement.
     
    VigorousZX and tritone like this.
  2. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Feb 15, 2008
    3,287
    Ontario, CA
    Full Name:
    wallace wyss
    Question about a really obscure one off car. It is called the 1968 Serenissima GT. Designed and bodied at Ghia. Not the Agena, that's another car. This one uses a Serenissima twin cam V8. The body style seems to be about 75% Mangusta but it has a one piece rear window set in a panel that goes all the way to the back. That lid is rear-hinged. It sold last year for over $500,000 at action. My questions: Did Giugiaro ever say anything about the appropriation of "his" design? Do you think DeTomaso built it to egg on Ford, as if to say "If you don't order a car to mass produce from me, you'll lose the chance to buy this" Or did he build it as designer Tom Tjaarda asserts, to try to egg on Count Volpi , owner of the Serenissima racing team, to do a mass production order? Was the engine the same as in a Serenissima race car or detuned? Thanks for any 70-year old car gossip...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    of2worlds, anunakki and ModernLou like this.
  3. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula 3

    May 12, 2005
    1,540
    Vancouver
    Full Name:
    Rick Bradner

    About the only thing I would take issue with is " There is no such thing as a “four-door coupe” .
    The term arrives from the French term coupé, "to cut". Therefore, you can cut a 4 door (photos) as easily as a 2 door.
    Further (referencing John here), GM had any number of "4 door pillarless coupes" from the mid-fifties to at least the late sixties, which I would contend meet every criteria for "coupé".
    Back to you Peter D -
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  4. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 16, 2007
    6,535
    Edwardsville, IL
    Full Name:
    Jeff Kennedy
    Description
    Serenissima Ghia GT 1968

    This superb coupé, created by the great designer Tom Tjaarda, is equipped with a V8 engine that has three valves per cylinder, developed by A. Francis. It was exhibited on the Ghia stand at Motor Shows in Turin, Geneva and New York.

    Prototype
    Unregistered
    Chassis GT n°EX001
    Body Coupe GT
    Engine Type M-167

    • Car designed by the late Tom Tjaarda
    • Ex-1968 Turin, Geneva and New York motor shows
    • Exclusive engineering, superb body styled by a great designer
    • A future star of international concours d'Elégance events
    • Born out of the friendship between Count Volpi and De Tomaso, in charge of Ghia at that time
    • Sold by the marque owner, who initiated the magnificent adventure and this sublime creation
    "I was friends with De Tomaso, who owned Ghia," remembers Giovanni Volpi. "De Tomaso was an amazing character, very dynamic and full of life. We built a really well designed coupé with him, which had incredible suspension. It went round corners completely flat. "

    With particularly elegant and subtle styling, this car had been designed by Tom Tjaarda who had just joined Ghia, following the departure of Gorgetto Giugiaro. It was one of the first projects he worked on, before the celebrated De Tomaso Pantera. This Serenissima, initially green, was exhibited on the Ghia stand at the Turin Motor Show in the autumn of 1968, alongside a Maserati Ghibli Spyder and a Maserati Simun prototype. In the press release, Ghia stated : " A perfect balance of aesthetics, aerodynamics and engineering : the aim of the Ghia designers (...) when creating this new body. "

    This Serenissima Ghia would then have appeared at the Geneva Motor Show in March 1969, followed, it seems, by the New York Motor Show. It is believed that it changed colour the same year, adopting the two-tone red livery it has today.

    The car was originally fitted with a Massimino 3.5-litre V8 engine, but this was quickly replaced in 1969 with an Alf Francis M-167 engine, which it retains today. With twin overhead cams and three valves per cylinder (two intake and one exhaust), it has single Marelli ignition and dry sump lubrication. The same size as the Massimino engine (3 470cc), it has four Weber 40 DCN14 carburettors and produces 320 bhp at 7 500 rpm. The car has a five-speed Serenissima (Francis) gearbox, with limited slip differential.

    This coupé with retractable headlights has boot space at the front, " Ghia " badges on the sides and has not been modified since it was presented in 1969. Inside, there are two bucket seats still with the original leather, and there is a full set of dials and gauges on the dashboard. The gear lever sits in a robust grille, with a dog-leg first gear and a lock on reverse. The electric windows, wood-rimmed steering wheel and air conditioning controls reflect its GT personality, a mix of sport and luxury.

    This Ghia coupé requires recommissioning before it can be driven. It is, however, a rare opportunity to acquire a unique car, with exclusive engineering and beautifully designed coachwork, which has hardly been driven. Exhibited at several Motor Shows in period, it is now being sold by the man who created the marque, and has owned the car from new. Such special history and attributes provide an entry to all the most prestigious historic international events, while giving the future owner the satisfaction of owning a powerful automobile like no other, born in the creative heart of 1960s Italy.

    Source: Art Curial - Photos © Christian Martin
     
    of2worlds and jm2 like this.
  5. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,894
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    Just to fact check, before Mercedes and BMW got on the bandwagon and decided to tell everyone they invented the 4 dr Coupe, the ‘96 Pontiac Grand Prix came in both 2 dr & 4 dr versions with the exact same lower roof shared between the 2 cars. They shared the front end assemblies as well, deck lids and rear fascia. Image Unavailable, Please Login
    When we introduced the car in Detroit in 1995, at the end of one of the press days, there was a large group of German engineers poring over the entire car, taking photos etc. Not going to say which company they were employed with. Not important at this point.
     
    anunakki, 330 4HL, tritone and 3 others like this.
  6. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Feb 15, 2008
    3,287
    Ontario, CA
    Full Name:
    wallace wyss
    Here's another Italo-American mystery car the Zonda. But going back to the Serenissima, I am surprised about the gearbox. Why would they invent their own when they already had the ZF in house? Was the Serenissima seen being driven around back then? Or is getting to make it a roadable car going to be as tough as the Ferrari Modulo was?

    DE TOMASO ZONDA Now I'm also curious about the Zonda. anther case where poor Tom Tjaarda was asked to design a car that looked like a re-do of a Giugiaro design, in this case the Ghibli. Even the dash looks like a Ghibli. It was supposedly a shortened DeTomaso Longchamp chassis. I wonder if the car was ever seen being driven around under its own power? I think this is a "missing" car and don't recall if it was part of the package deal when 10 or so cars from the DeTomaso Museum were sold off in a package deal after th firm packed up. Incidentally one picture I saw shows it at the Ford Design Center in '71 so that was shot back during the "Honeymoon" period between Ford and DeTomaso when Ford was still planning to develop and jointly market cars with DeTomaso. Later on, relations became acrimonious between Ford and DeTomaso and they split, Ford marketing the rest of the Panteras they had ordered but letting DeTomaso go his own way, Ford keeping Ghia. So does this car still exist and what do FChatters think of its design?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    of2worlds and ModernLou like this.
  7. VigorousZX

    VigorousZX Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2011
    269
    The Roma makes the Nissan Z prototype look like a modern appliance then art. 'Its like a hair trimmer', I read someone remark on it.
    The Roma should have 5 more inches in wheelbase.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,894
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    #10859 jm2, Sep 30, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
    Friend of mine owns both a Mangusta and a C8 Corvette. He does a great job comparing the two.
    https://velocetoday.com/de-tomaso-mangusta-vs-corvette-c8/#more-123059



    De Tomaso Mangusta vs Corvette C8

    September 29, 2020 By pete 6 Comments



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    A half century separates the 1969 De Tomaso Mangusta and the 2020 Chevrolet C8 Corvette.



    By Dick Ruzzin

    What drives a company like De Tomaso or Chevrolet to demonstrate its soul by creating cars that will hopefully outperform those of its peers? To put its image on the line and be confident that it will win? To challenge what is considered the best in all the world and not be afraid?

    This is really a story of two companies, one very small and one very big. Fifty years separate the two landmark mid-engine efforts, the Mangusta and the C8 Corvette. For Alessandro de Tomaso, it was very personal, as he wrote in the Mangusta Owners Manual. Fortunately, in the history and heritage of General Motors and Chevrolet, there remains a spark called Corvette, which still displays the very essence of what an automobile is about.

    Herein, we examine both cars from an owner’s perspective.

    Over fifty years ago, through a series of unusual circumstances, I became the owner of the only De Tomaso Mangusta (of 401) built at the factory with a 375HP Corvette engine, not a 215HP Ford like most of the others. I still own that car, 8MA670, and have lived with it, worked on it, driven it, showed it and protected it all of that time. I now consider it a treasure.

    When I first brought the Mangusta home, I was in disbelief that I actually owned it. It took months for me to get used to driving it and seeing it in my garage. I was nervous about it. It was considered the most beautiful car design on the planet at the time and it influenced every car design and car designer in the world. The fact that it was mid-engined was simply not as important as the way it looked.

    In early 2019 I was hearing rumors that a new mid-engine Corvette was really supposed to be produced – “This time.” In 2014, I had bought a C7 convertible that was originally supposed to have mid- engine architecture. GM’s bankruptcy reduced their budget so the Corvette team had to fall back on rear wheel drive. The result was a fantastic rear drive car. I would have been happy to keep mine forever as it was wonderful. I then decided that if Chevrolet built a mid-engine car that it must be truly exceptional and that I had to own one.

    I had no idea how inadequate the word ‘exceptional’ would be in describing the new C8 Corvette. I ordered one in November of 2019 and number 01742 arrived in my driveway on my birthday during the second week of June in 2020. Later that night, looking at it in my garage I was intimidated, just as I had been when I brought the Mangusta home over fifty years earlier.
    Both cars embody the values of the countries where they were created, the Mangusta is 1969 Italian, and the Corvette is 2020 American. The Mangusta is about the past and the Corvette is about the future.

    This is my story of owning both cars at the same time and comparing them for you. Who would have ever thought that I would have been so lucky?

    DE TOMASO AUTOMOBILI



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    From Italy, the De Tomaso Mangusta, a design icon. Clear, harmonic and emotional design, when once seen, remembered forever.



    The De Tomaso story is well known to the VeloceToday.com readership. Alessandro de Tomaso was not an engineer; he was a mechanic who became a race car driver and then quickly moved to race car builder. He was known to be an innovator, one who moved on quickly to “new things”. He had an amazing career of great accomplishment, eventually owning several Italian car and motorcycle companies. His first car built in series was the low volume Vallelunga. It was small and mid-engine like his racecars. Then, utilizing the Ford V8 engine, the Mangusta was introduced in 1966. The deal with Ford for the engines led quickly to the Ford Pantera.

    THE FIRST CHEVROLET CORVETTE

    In Italy shortly after Ferrari started producing road cars and before Lamborghini emerged a Corvette heritage was evolving within General Motors and Chevrolet in the United States. If you closely examine the new C8 Corvette Stingray emblem you will see a small Chevrolet Bowtie. That bowtie, in the emblem from the Corvette’s beginning, it was created by William C. Durant in 1913, a co-founder of the Chevrolet Motorcar Company. His partner, Louis Chevrolet, was a race car driver who also aspired to manufacturing his own cars. His great competitive racing spirit still lives on at Chevrolet and continues to influence its future.

    Conceived by GM’s first car designer Harley Earl, the Corvette was embraced by Chevrolet after World War Two as a British import fighter . It started in 1953 with the straight six cylinder, but the soon-to-be iconic Chevrolet Small Block V8 engine as designed by Ed Cole was in the wings, and when Zora Arkus Duntov invited himself to be part of the C2 Team, the V8 became a reality. Duntov’s high speed runs at Daytona Beach shocked the emerging sports car world in America as the new Corvette exceeded 150MPH, performance far beyond the twice the price Jaguar XK140s and inspiring the XKE. Like Earl, Duntov was a racer, even racing at le Mans after starting at General Motors, and as time went on, he steadily advanced the Corvette’s dynamic performance. It soon was recognized deservedly as America’s only true sports car.



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    From America, the 2020 Chevrolet C8 Corvette, challenging the best in the world in the showroom and on the race track. The design of the car has received enthusiastic acclaim.



    From a business standpoint the Corvette’s early performance was fitful. But from the very beginning many at General Motors had, and still do have, a special feeling for the Corvette. Through good and bad times, it survived true to its heritage of offering outstanding performance at a great price. The C8 still has that ingrained value but that is no longer the reason to buy one. Now it stands completely on its own as a world-class high-performance sports car that takes a back seat to no other brand. Soon it will be sold around the world with both right and left hand drive; the image created by the years of winning Corvette racecars has successfully paved the way, competing and winning against the best the world has to offer.

    THE DESIGN LANDSCAPE FOR THE MANGUSTA

    The De Tomaso Mangusta as designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro was introduced at the 1966 Turin Automobile Show in Italy. At that time the automotive design world was very settled and evolving in an international aesthetic progression. The car received incredible attention because it was so beautiful with exotic mid-engined proportions. What was not understood was the high level of artistic skill required to execute a design that was so simple. It is clearly a piece of automotive art work done by a master and technically almost equal to the Lamborghini Miura, except for its engine.



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    The Mangusta has a midengine racing chassis conceived by Alessandro de Tomaso and Carroll Shelby. Interior and exterior design by Giorgetto Giugiaro and it was conceived as a racecar for the street. Note however, that this particular Mangusta has a small block Chevy engine rather than the standard Ford offering.



    The Mangusta was a design leader, an instant icon. No car that has come out since has had so much impact on the way that cars look as there is a very strong line between aesthetic automotive drama and the forces that influence global design cultures.

    As I drove my new Mangusta around, people would follow me home, pull over to the side of the road when they saw me coming and when and wherever I stopped there was always some kind of conversation. De Tomaso – “It sounds like a restaurant.” Mangusta- “Strange name, I never heard of it, but it is pretty.” It was red and low and when you opened the rear engine cover there sitting in the engine bay was a 327 Chevrolet Small Block engine. I knew that engine well, I had installed one in my 1952 MGTD when in college. One day in the very near future I would meet Ed Cole, who designed it, and it would be part of my career at General Motors Design for many years. No other engine… No Ferrari, no Maserati, no Porsche or Lamborghini or BMW or Mercedes Benz engine has given more pleasure to more people than the Chevrolet Small Block. Period.

    THE DESIGN LANDSCAPE FOR THE C8 CORVETTE

    The C8 Corvette Stingray was introduced by Chevrolet sixty years after the first hint of a move to mid-engined architecture. The design world, now global, is moving forward under self-imposed branding rules. The rear wheel drive C7 Corvette introduced six years earlier broke the Corvette design mold and paved the way for the C8. It was instantly embraced, achieving design parity with Ferrari and Lamborghini, the leaders in the mid-engine supercar world. The C8 aesthetic achievement is matched with a GM developed and industry leading aluminum chassis and eight speed transmission.



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    The C8 Corvette engine. Evolved from the original Ed Cole Chevrolet Small Block, it now boasts 490 Horsepower and 460 Lbs. of Torque. It has a cast aluminum chassis and an eight speed transmission.



    In the very competitive world of global automobile development rarely does a sea change appear. One evolved over a long period of years and was recently confirmed over the last seven or eight at General Motors and Chevrolet. It was a historic decision for the Corvette Team, a small group of passionate designers and engineers who had nurtured what became an outstanding rear wheel drive platform for years, to then switch to mid-engine architecture. It would be their opportunity to create a new production Corvette that would be like no other. The timing was right; General Motors and Chevrolet would take the opportunity to grow the Corvette brand but the new C8 must accomplish a historic task, to win at racing and also be sold in the USA and around the world against all competition. Even though it was seen coming for sixty years, when it finally arrived it was shocking in a number of different ways. General Motors and Chevrolet were going to start playing with the big boys!



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    The Mangusta and the Corvette, built fifty years apart with many common functional attributes. Light weight, both cars have leading edge technologies for the times.



    COMMON VEHICLE ATTRIBUTES, 1969 MANGUSTA AND THE 2020 CORVETTE

    The Mangusta and the C8 Corvette are very similar in many ways but, as expected fifty years after the Mangusta was first sold, science and engineering advances have resulted in very different products. I will try to explain both and also compare what it is like to drive a historic mid-engine car built by De Tomaso to the newly released mid-engine C8 Corvette built by Chevrolet. Both cars feature:

    *Mid-engine architecture
    *V8 engines
    *Longitudinal engine orientation.
    *Advanced chassis design with lightweight structures for the times
    *Easy entry rockers and a structural center tunnel.
    *Both challenge the market with stunning looks.
    *Two luggage compartments.
    Both mid-engine cars were created with racing instrumentation, electric windows, air conditioning and power brakes as well as unique steering wheels.

    The Mangusta weighs in at 2,954 pounds and the C8, fifty years later, with all required safety mandated additives is still only 3,366 pounds. Weight bias for both is about the same, 40 / 60 resulting in excellent traction and zero to sixty times. Astoundingly, they are under 4 1/2 seconds for the Mangusta with the Chevrolet engine and under 3 seconds for the new C8 Corvette. Both are very fast cars.

    Opshots, Mangusta

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    dsfsdf





    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    gfg



    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Buy Dick Ruzzin’s Tribute to the Mangusta. bellamangustadesign.com
    Softcover
    $24.99
    Hardcover
     
    Boomhauer, tritone, anunakki and 4 others like this.
  9. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    26,812
    West of Fredericksburg, VA
    Full Name:
    John
    Back in the day, a friend of mine also had one of these. The dashboard was similar to sitting in a small airplane given all the toggle switches across. The C8 is more like (1) a jet fighter cockpit with (2) a motorcycle passenger side car.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    jm2 likes this.
  10. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    18,627
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean

    I'm no design maestro, so to me a car eitehr looks nice and harmonious or not, I like the looks of the MC20 as in it looks nice enough as a gneric Italian mid engiend car, but...
    At 3300lbs dry whats the point of the CF tub besides marketing. Surely the benefit of CF is to make a very light stiff car because that does confer all sorts of performance advantages.
    Same criticism of the length, its not a short car, a big surpise because between the V6 and CF this could have been a short lightish car, that would have stood out as somehting special.
    What we have here is another "stylish" mid engined Gt, whats the point or objective besides something to spice up a showroom, it sets no new ground?
    I fear it si a car that falls between twos tools, does not know whether it wants to be another lux Gt or a more hard core sportscar.
    Maybe the lightweight trofeo version will standout, but then its still a bigish car.
     
    330 4HL and jm2 like this.
  11. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    18,627
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean

    Mangustra and C8 also have snap oversteer in common, but thats soon to be cured on the C8 I think.
    Having had good a look at the C8 up close, and been in the cockpit I would say chevy has done a masterful job. The feelign in the drivers seat is every bit exotic, the view out over the front also very much mid engined exotic.

    What pictures don't convey is how the instrument binacle and screen fall below the drivers road line of sight so as to be almost completly unobtrusive, there if you need it but otherwise nearly invisible.
    The wrap around drivers area is also another great feature that has a functionality pictures dont convey, it shrinks the car around you and gives it very much a focussed single seater feel.
    I love the stealth jet motife, its a modern riff on the jet cockpit look of the late 50s and early 60s, a modern take on a quintessentialy american style and fully functional.

    The C8 is to me an american lamborghini, an aventador that works and is practical. Current iteration though is pure Gt.
    Interested to see how far they can stretch the platform, esp in terms of lighter weight, seesm like lots of potential baked in, (hopefully its not chronicaly heavy).
    Zora would approve as would Bill Mitchell.
    The big flaw to me is that two golf clubs edict, it gave the car a huge hatch and a big ass, both of which add lots of weight and detract stylisticaly. But hey we forgive the Italians a lot in their cars, so kudos to chevy for taking the risk of going Me and executing so well given all the competing requirements. Theyll keep their core happy and have something to atract the rest of us.
     
    jm2 likes this.
  12. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    26,812
    West of Fredericksburg, VA
    Full Name:
    John
    Perhaps the need for 2 sets of golf clubs is going the way of the Dodo bird? Maybe the C9 will pick up on that trend.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    jm2 likes this.
  13. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,894
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    I also asked myself that question, re: 2 sets of golf clubs. Did the customers really ask for that?
    But then, you might be surprised at the product planning nonsense that is requested at times.
     
    tritone and energy88 like this.
  14. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,894
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    This is a very long read, but if you can deal with it, it is a great history lesson from the William L.Mitchell era of vehicle design.
    Some great anecdotes from a 1985 interview with Mr. Mitchell.
    AUTOMOTIVE ORAL HISTORIES

    The Reminiscences of William L. Mitchell

    Reminiscence from the 1985 Interview with William L. Mitchell. Automotive Design Oral History, Accession 1673. Benson Ford Research Center. The Henry Ford.


    http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Design/Mitchell/mitchellinterview.htm?fbclid=IwAR3DM5e4fFbpMpL9lUQHbFYxcjOuwwLT5F8OHK0O_0RfESJYldp8FeKhVoQ
     
    anunakki and colombo2cam like this.
  15. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 8, 2005
    72,468
    Las Vegas Nevada
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Thats a great looking car IMO
     
    jm2 likes this.
  16. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,894
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    Thanks. We were proud of that one!
     
    anunakki likes this.
  17. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 8, 2005
    72,468
    Las Vegas Nevada
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Hmm we couldnt disagree more on that.
     
    boxerman likes this.
  18. VigorousZX

    VigorousZX Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2011
    269
    anunakki and Boomhauer like this.
  19. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    5,222
    Montreal
    Not a fan of the 4-door “coupes” either sedan or SUVs. The most egregiously offensive design in my opinion is the Merc CLS banana of the mid-2000s. The first X6 I thought was nicely styled and would have made a nice hot hatch at 3/4 scale but as sized was a bloated pig.

    The car that I think inspired the 4-door coupe trend is the late ‘90s Alfa 156 whose design, wiki notes, “featured visually deemphasized rear door handles and accentuated front handles, giving the illusion of a coupé profile.”
     
    boxerman and jm2 like this.
  20. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,894
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    ;)
    I LOVED that Mercedes CLS when it came out. I first saw it at it's European intro, and was slack-jawed at how cool i thought it was.

    Different strokes........
     
    anunakki likes this.
  21. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    18,627
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean
    A mercedes take on a Jaguar, even the interior had jagish feel. Since then they blanded the shape into nothingness.
     
    tritone and jm2 like this.
  22. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    18,627
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean

    Great read. Mitchell sure was precienct about where car design went at GM. Not sure why he was unable to appoint a sucessor with the power to design as Early had appointed him. He seems to regret that.
    Clearly not afraid of expressing his opinion in a very colorful way, which prob wouldnt work in todays corporate america.
    He spoke much of designers expressing and feeling the hertiage of a brand. That got lost, yet the riviera was something he shopped to all the brands so it can be done.



    It must be hard to be a designer at a company run by toothpaste salesman. Then we have BMW which decided to take design roisks and we got the bangle 7 series. Risks dotn work if the deciders have no asthetics. Earl and Mictell had the asthetics but also the authority to call the design shots and push designs through. Its not coincidental that American car design was at a peak.

    One thing Musk understood so well with tesla were still selling dreams and aspirations, tesla design, espcialy the Y is a translation of that in the 21st century electric.
    Was walking home the other night and a white model y stopped next to me. It was like somehting out of a sci fi movie, the future is now. So much better than a prius which is designed to not look like otehr cars, but really just jars the eyes and senses. A camel is truly a horse designed by a comite.
     
    jm2 likes this.
  23. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 8, 2005
    72,468
    Las Vegas Nevada
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    I absolutely love that.
     
  24. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,894
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    That was indeed a different era.
    People like Mitchell would never survive, let alone thrive in today's 'safe' corporate culture.
    The thing about Mitchell & Earl was they knew exactly what each brand was , and what the brand stood for. They each had a clear vision for design.
    Not always right, certainly, but they had a vision. IMO, that is one of the things lacking with many of today's design organizations. A clear vision of what needs to happen.
     
    anunakki and tritone like this.

Share This Page