First Ferrari? | FerrariChat

First Ferrari?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Peavynation, Mar 31, 2020.

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  1. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
    27
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Joel Peavy
    Hi Everyone,

    Somehow this was first posted under 'new member introductions' for some reason. I'll delete that. Anyway...

    Excuse this Ferrari noob, but at least I'm certainly no noob to sports cars, Porsche in particular. I've wanted to join the Ferrari world for awhile and think now may be time.

    I have an pretty loaded question that many will roll their eyes at, but I searched the forum and didn't come up with much.

    What are people's opinions as a "good" first Ferrari?

    With a budget of only $45-50k it limits possibilities, but my primary criteria are this:

    * Good mix of driveability and performance
    * Mid-engine
    * Sound-wise I'd love a flat-plane crank
    * I do all my own maintenance and have a full workshop, lift, etc. so serviceability isn't a huge concern but the easier the better.
    * I'd rather not have to mortgage my house for parts but realize a Ferrari aint a Honda.
    * This isn't an investment, per se, this is something to drive and enjoy, but getting something that will at least hold it's value is an obvious plus (but who really knows, right?)
    * In the end, I want a well balanced car my wife and I can drive and enjoy.
    * And I'm open to hearing everything I don't even know I should be considering!

    Talking to my Ferrari friends the following came up. I think I'm partial to the 't' at this point, but I'm such a noob I need some guidance by those who know better. I know there is no right answer to this question, I'm just looking for other's opinions that I can then draw my own from.

    Mondial in general, a 't' in particular
    308 GTB vs GTS vs GT4
    355

    Thanks all!
     
    paulchua likes this.
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,282
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    Welcome - realistically your budget is only 308 or Mondial - just possibly T or 348 both of which are engine out major

    Spend hours reading the existing advice in the individual model sections here and then buy what tickles your fancy
     
    Peavynation likes this.
  3. Alex308qv

    Alex308qv Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
    378
    PA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Agree the 308/328 meets your spec. One place to start collecting data is search Bring-a-trailer for "308" and you will get a graph of all their past sales and RNMs. Looks to be about a dozen sold in your range in past couple years. You can then see the listings and read the comments on each one. They are down a lot from 2016 and with what's going on now you should be able to get a decent one IMO. But a $45-50k Ferrari (or any exotic) can quickly become $65-70k or more if it has issues and/or is missing things - so be thorough!
     
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  4. DGS

    DGS Six Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    60,049
    MidTN
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    DGS
    There's nothing more expensive than a "cheap" Ferrari. ;)

    Don't try to buy an example much below average prices for that model.
    The market isn't stupid. If it's unusually cheap, there's usually a reason.
    A potentially expensive reason.

    I bought my 328 at a discount --- knowing that I'd have to put five figures into making it "right".
    (Three month long engine-out overhaul.)
    (But, when it was done, I had a "like new" example ... mechanically.)
     
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  5. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
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    Nov 9, 2010
    11,926
    Blueberry
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    Muffin-Tops

    You could find a well sorted 308 GT4, Mondial T or 308 (GTS/GTSi) or even a scruffier 328 GTS for your ball park range. Some key differences

    pre-1980 308's (though some "mid years" eclipsed this timeline, but for the sake of discussion)

    308 GT4 1974-1980 These will be either 208 or 308 cars, with great sounding V8s as they have Weber carbs. Single distributor vs dual by year can make tuning a bit challenging if you don't know how, but easily dealt with with time spent with them. Parts for bigger end items are expensive, for almost ALL Ferrari's (think AC parts, master cylinders, suspension, brakes, clutch etc.) BUT not hard to source for the most part. These cars are great for DIY, as they don't have many complicated "nannies" of later cars. A weak point in many of these now vintage 308's are the fuse boxes, again, easily rectified, with time and money :)
    (the above category includes 308 GTS (Targa) and GTB cars (closed). GTB's will command a higher price point.

    Mondial's have 4 flavors, the 1980-82 "8", the QV, the 3.2 then lastly the "T". The T was the culminating model with a 348 engine and shares much with the then made 348. The early 8's are not very desirable, and frankly, a bit boring and lag on prices too. Think $25K for a good 8, $30-35K for a good QV/3.2 and $45+ for a good T. Out of these, the T's are the only one's that need an actual "engine out" service (though there's a thread on here how to accomplish in car, but it's easier to get to all parts if it's dropped out of the car). The QV, 3.2 and T all came in Coupe or Convertible forms. All of these cars are injected, no carb in any Mondial's.
    Some weak points- windows are slow. sunroofs are slow. a/c is a pain to keep working.

    1980's 308's can be broken down into GTSi (80-82) QV then later evolved into the 328. GTS (targa) and GTB (closed) again. The early GTSi's were the first "injected" round of 308's and 2V vs later 4V cars. They had lower HP and the sound is not like a carb car at all, though they ALL sound excellent.

    I'll let others jump in on the 355 for a comparison, I have not driven one and don't know how they compare other than specs found here/internet. But obviously an evolution and further developed car than any of the above mentioned, and 5V per cylinder. True screamers :)

    Whatever you decide, have a PPI done, speak with the owner directly, try to find a car with good paperwork trail and in the best possible condition you can afford. Cheap Ferrari's turn into expensive Ferrari's very quickly.
     
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  6. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
    27
    San Diego
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    Joel Peavy
    Thanks greyboxer, good advice. Didn't have a 348 on my radar, could be interesting. Not too worried about engine-out work, so at least that won't play into it too much.
     
  7. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
    27
    San Diego
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    Joel Peavy
    Indeed, thanks Alex. I have been on BaT quite a bit looking around and viewing their past sales graphs, which are great data points. And yes, "knowing what you're buying", that's my biggest worry, trying to sort that out remotely. I figured a 328 would be out of my range, but maybe if I wait long enough during these crazy times... Who knows.
     
  8. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
    27
    San Diego
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    Joel Peavy
    Yep, totally agree DGS. Did the same on my current 911: I knew the 2nd gear syncros were shot and used that as s bargaining chip to get the car way below value so I knew I'd still be ahead after I did the work. My worry are the unknowns. But a low price definitely throws up red flags.
     
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  9. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
    27
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    Joel Peavy
    Thanks 19633500GT, great post with so much info! I'm an electrical engineer and physicist, so if I did go early 308 and the only problems it had were fuse-box/electrical in nature I'd be delighted! Not too many special-electronics in those early cars, comparatively speaking, so if anything is wrong there it's usually just inexpensive wiring/connections/etc.; tracking them down is the work.

    Although I'm no stranger to carbs, I'm wondering if I might prefer injection on these cars for less-fussyness, albeit at more complexity/cost if something goes south. Hmm, time will tell.

    I drove my friend's 355 while back and yes, screamer is right. :)
     
  10. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
    27
    San Diego
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    Joel Peavy
    Well, well, well, more news: after all this time I finally decide to press the button, and then this morning my company tells me it's cutting salaries due to Covid19's impact within our industry. Great. Now even more to balance with this decision! :(o_O
     
  11. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    In the $40-50K range, a 355 shouldn't even be on your radar. A later-model 3x8 probably shouldn't be either. Both of those cars, in that price range, are generally cars to be avoided unless you have a deep wallet for fixing everything that will absolutely need to be done. IE, a $40K 355 is cheap for a very good reason.
     
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  12. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
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    Joel Peavy
    Indeed. Thanks Thorn. Always good to know the market so I can watch out for red-flag prices.
     
  13. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 8, 2005
    72,508
    Las Vegas Nevada
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    Jerry
    I think you need to wait until you can swing $60-70k. Its going to make a huge difference in the quality of car you can get
     
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  14. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
    27
    San Diego
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    Joel Peavy
    Thanks Jerry, I will definitely consider that. Did you have a particular model in mind at that price? Cause a $70k 308 I'd expect to roll out of Pebble Beach. :)
     
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  15. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,741
    North Wiltshire, UK
    I would have said, 308GT4, Mondial and 348, possible 308, all high ish mileage would fall in your budget. Personally I have a 348TS and love it. Drives like a big go-kart! They have ABS and that's it, no traction control, no power steering, no airbags. Do try and get to see some of the cars as the driving position over the model range you are looking at changed a bit!

    As I'm sure somebody has already said, go on condition not mileage. Low mileage garage queens will present their own problems; these cars like to be driven.

    All come with their own foibles, so read the individual forums. Due to the age of the cars there isn't anything that hasn't broken and been fixed by somebody and written up on here!

    If you do your own spannering, none of these will present much of an issue for you to maintain. Maintenance costs do vary a little, and whilst some parts can be picked up dirt cheap as they are common to things like Fiat, Kia, Volvo etc. some parts are NLA so its a waiting game on the various parts sources!

    When you see something you are interested in, do ask on here as somebody might know the car; and we all like pictures!!

    Good luck and stay safe in these weird times.
     
  16. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 8, 2005
    72,508
    Las Vegas Nevada
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    Jerry
    I think every $5k more you can go over $50k will put you in a much nicer 308 or 348. Honestly unless you REALLY love old cars I dont think you will be happy with a 308GT4 or a Mondial.

    A 308 and a 348 both have enough 'modern' in them (and are cool looking) that i dont think you'd regret. I cant say the same for the 308GT4 or the Mondial (though i actually think the Mondials are cool looking but the ones Ive driven were not fun)

    I believe in a few months time, because of the economic problems this virus is causing, you will be able to put yourself into a nice 355 or 360 for between $60-70k as people will be selling.

    Just my $.02 having owned both a 355 and 360.
     
  17. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
    27
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    Joel Peavy
    Thx Jerry. Uh, oh... 360 enters the ring. That was "my" car when it first came out, was very struck by it. Figured it would always be out of reach; might still be, but this virus is doing a number on the market like you said.

    Question about 355's and (particularly) 360's I had always presumed that they were 'new enough' that they would be very expensive to maintain for even the normal consumables (brakes, clutch, etc.), not to mention the fancy tech in them. I could ask this on the 360-specific forum, but since you were an owner, what's your take on that statement?

    You're right on about the 'wanting to drive old cars' comment. I love my 60's and 70's mustangs and Porsches, but sometimes they'er just a chore to drive and I want to drive something that doesn't have that much "character". I guess it's me just getting older. Style-wise, the 360 wins hands-down for me, with the 308 coming up second, and 348 third. Maintenance-wise I love the older cars for their simplicity. Unless I win the lottery I will never own a Porsche newer than a 996 as the technology gets too expensive to replace and even troubleshoot. I don't have my barometer reading on Ferraris for that data point yet, but I'm guessing it's around the 355 to 360 mark?
     
  18. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    A 4C
     
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  19. 2Velocebro

    2Velocebro Rookie

    Apr 13, 2018
    42
    San Diego, CA
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    Brandon Davis
    I'm looking for a 208 Turbo once Italy opens back up and I can buy one. So, I obviously really love the look of the 308/328 cars. They really are masterpieces and IMHO, the prettiest of the mid-engined V8 Ferraris. Back in the states I was looking at a 348 and REALLY liked it. As another poster on here mentioned, it drives like a big go-kart. Very direct handling, and I love the old-school analogue feel of the car. The sound was incredible too, especially with the Tubi exhaust. I think it's very underappreciated at the moment. I think it looks very rad too and is a great design, if not as classically beautiful as a 308/328 or a 355.

    Also, while I know it's not a Ferrari, a car with a lot of Ferrari design cues and feel is the Alfa Romeo 4C. It has excellent performance (about as quick as a 360), a La Ferrari-style carbon fiber tub, and incredible sharp, non-power assisted steering (it's handling and steering feel remind me of the 348). Plus, it looks like a modern interpretation of a Dino, which a lot of people have compared it to. Plus, you can find a perfect one solidly in your price range. Maintenance is definitely a lot less than anything with a prancing horse logo too, and as they're newer cars, shouldn't need any money put into it when you get it.

    With that said, it doesn't have the gated manual like the cars you mentioned. It has a fantastic dual clutch, but still, nothing beats a gated manual. Also, while it sounds really good in its own right, it's no flat plane crank V8. If you have your heart set on a Ferrari, I totally understand. However, if you want a fun to drive, mid-engined, Italian sports car for a reasonable price, it's worth a look.
     
  20. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
    27
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Joel Peavy
    Great input, 2Velocebro, thanks! It comes down to "so many cars, so little time". The 4C has been a favorite of mine since it came out, and still might be a contender. A friend's Urraco might present itself soon too. But having had my fair share of european sports cars and experiences, I think it may be time to have the "Ferrari experience" in life, as it's definitely it's own 'thing'. We'll see. And I do agree with your 308/328 sentiments; the more I research them and talk to people about them, the more I'm loving them. Now just need to get my butt in one to drive.
     
  21. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
    974
    Arizona
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    Mike
    308 QV hands down a reliable and fun car. 328 better but probably out of your price range.
    Mondial isn't popular and hard to sell.
    348 will nickle and dime you to death.
    308GT4 a great car.... my first Ferrari.....some don't like the styling but they are great drivers, and IMHO have their own personality.
    PM me if you want to talk about these choices. And yes, for $50K you can get a decent example.
     
  22. axarunner

    axarunner Karting

    Sep 8, 2019
    97
    Glen Ridge, NJ
    Full Name:
    Dan Murphy
    I purchased my first Ferrari in September 2019... a 348 TS on BAT for $41,348 and quickly dropped $10K into as the engine needed a full service. But now its done and I'm loving it, driving it constantly even for little things like picking up a pint of half & half this afternoon.
    Like someone stated before, it's a true sports car, basic, analogue, engaging and a crowd pleaser. I have a tubi exhaust and straight pipes... sounds epic.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  23. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    15,874
    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    When I was shopping back in 2010, I was looking at 348's or 360's. It was the bottom of the recession and I recall seeing 348's in the 20's. I ended up with my 360 for a price that is so low I'm not going to even type it here.. but my 3-pedal 360 was definitely affordable. I will warn you though, I do alot of the work on it myself.. but I still have the belts and the clutch done by my mechanic. She's been very reliable but the clutch was $6k and the belts every 5 years for me are $2400 or so. Parts ARE expensive, but being a DIY guy you can reduce the cost. Not eliminate it.. but reduce it. Overall I LOVE my euro 360. She starts on sat. I drive her on the weekend, put her away for the week on sunday. Absolutely wonderful. The key though is driving it every week or other week. Keeps things reliable.

    348 and 355 are engine out. But.. if you have a lift in your garage (I don't) and power tools.. you can probably get one and operate it. I'd still love to have a 348 but I'll prob get a F1 360 on the cheap and convert it to stick one of these days if the prices drop enough. FWIW the old stuff, the 308's, 328's, Mondials, they just didn't do it for me. Esp with accident safety. I wanted a modern car.
    Be careful... really analyze if your job is stable enough (key here) and if you don't have to.. keep saving and buy when the market is in a funk, when everyone else doesn't want to buy. I did and it was one of the best decisions I've made.
     
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  24. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
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    Joel Peavy
    Thanks Mike, perfectly distilled and informative. I'll PM you soon for some further insight.
     
  25. Peavynation

    Peavynation Rookie

    Mar 31, 2020
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    Joel Peavy
    Beautiful car Dan! Having fawned over the TR 'back in the day', I don't know that I've ever given the 348 its due respect. Definitely growing on me more as this journey continues, so something to look into more; people keep saying such good things about them.
     
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