2020 Barcelona Testng: Feb. 19th - 21st & Feb. 26th - 28th | Page 26 | FerrariChat

2020 Barcelona Testng: Feb. 19th - 21st & Feb. 26th - 28th

Discussion in 'F1' started by jgonzalesm6, Feb 6, 2020.

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  1. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    If that’s not Allison himself, must be one of the many incompetent Italians Mercedes poached from Ferrari to work on their own PU in recent years.
     
  2. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Great!!!.....that's just great!!! :rolleyes:
     
  3. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Sep 12, 2004
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    Montreal
    Ha-ha, true.

    Actually, I seem to remember that it was Red Bull who asked for a clarification on a ficticous supposed design they wanted to use and which they suspected Ferrari of using. Their suspicions were supposedly based on GPS analysis of the Ferraris and performance modelling done with the help of Honda.
     
  4. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Via Honda this was......................
     
  5. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447

    Which bring the question: why the Scuderia doesn't relocate in England where are most of the teams?
    There, they would find a pool of talents and have no problem retaining the staff they "train and nurture".
    Foreign teams like Mercedes, Renault and a few others have understood the benefits of being in England.
     
    TonyL likes this.
  6. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

    May 25, 2019
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    Can we get back to what's important - lowering our expectations to prepare for Ferrari letting us down again, and the "mole?"
     
  7. Targaflorio0199

    Targaflorio0199 Karting

    Jun 25, 2019
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    Targa
    Seems like most have written off the Scuderia in Melbourne.

    Perfect.

    Happy for others to death ride them and say they will be lucky to finish fifth or worse in Australia.

    Far rather that than winning 2019 testing then getting slaughtered for most of the season.

    Downplay everything. Best position to be in.
     
    635CSI and crinoid like this.
  8. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
    Mole? you mean Vole?
     
  9. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    Because the food is horrible. There are more important things in life than cars.
     
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  10. Thomas S.

    Thomas S. Karting

    Sep 11, 2017
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    Thomas
    They tried 2 times and failed (GTO). Right afterwards they started the most successful period ever, by intelligently leveraging their special status out of Maranello.
     
  11. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Thanks
    thanks for "translating" my post, but some people will read what they want, not what i mean. And yes, british press is 90% toilet paper, same as the spanish one. I belive the Brits "the honest ones at least" will be the first to agree with me.
     
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  12. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    ..Oh...and i love Monty Pyton...Black Adder, the Smiths, Artic Monkeys...and Elizabeth Hurley isn't bad either!...and how could i forget, our own Sid!
     
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  13. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
    11,884
    Where is The Sidster?
     
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  14. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Probably chasing some blonde :)...in a world free from Trolls and orcs....
     
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  15. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    #640 TifosiUSA, Mar 2, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
    Honestly, it pains me to say it, but Ferrari sucks politically now. Sad to see. Used to dominate any off track talk/regulations disputes with the governing body. Mercedes and Red Bull have been allowed to have too much influence and the Ferrari name gets dragged through the mud by rivals & press with zero repercussions/response.
     
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  16. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
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    Why are some of us ‘dishonest’ ?
    We do host the majority of the F1 industry, we do originate most of the F1 English press,(the clue is in the name of the language).
    But we are really not a nationalist bunch when it comes to supporting UK based teams, particularly with German names.
    I, for example, support Scuderia Ferrari.
     
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  17. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    But they didn't relocate to England, the teams they purchased were already there.

    The current Renault team is not the France-based Renault F1 of 1977-1985, it's Team Enstone - started as Toleman in the 1980s, bought and rebranded as Benetton in later 1980s (moved to Enstone in 1992), then sold to Renault in 2000. Post-Singapore Crashgate in 2008, Renault sold the team to Genii Capital, who ran under Lotus branding. Renault bought back the grossly underfunded Enstone team in late 2015, so Renault/Lotus/Genii/Renault/Benetton/whoever has operated out of England for more than 35 years of it's entire existence.

    Similarly, Mercedes still runs the old Tyrrell racing license, so effectively the current Mercedes F1 has been an England-based F1 team since 1968. Tyrrell sold their license to BAR for 1999 (but license only; all the Tyrrell equipment, cars, went to Paul Stoddart, and BAR used a different factory as well). BAR became Honda in 2006, became Brawn F1 in 2009, then Mercedes F1 in 2010, all based completely in England the entire time.
     
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  18. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Are you referring to McLaren? You have a terrible memory. McLaren didn't steal anything in 2007; it was Ferrari employee Nigel Stepney who stole the Ferrari information. Ferrari employee Stepney then gave the stolen information to McLaren; their fine was for possessing stolen Ferrari information. They didn't ask Stepney to steal it; he stole it first, then shopped it around, and McLaren employee Mike Coughlan took him up, figuring he could use the Ferrari information to enhance his position within McLaren.

    McLaren wasn't the only team ever to be convicted of possessing proprietary stolen information from another team; Toyota was convicted and fined in the scandal of 2006; and Renault was convicted of possessing stolen McLaren data, also in 2008.

    With regard to the FIA supposedly disadvantaging Ferrari - there can be zero doubt that the FIA, via Max Mosley, certainly had a grudge against Ron Dennis of Mclaren and disadvantaged McLaren in the mid-late 2000s. I don't see a current anti-Ferrari bias in the FIA, certainly not anything near what Mosley had against McLaren during his reign of terror/mediocrity.
     
  19. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    I know all that, we all do.
    But it still remains that when Renault decided to return to F1 as a team in early 2000, they didn't revive their outfit in France, but they decided to buy the Benetton team in England as their base.
    When Mercedes entered F1 they bought Brawn's team also located in England rather than stay in Germany.
    Same for Dieter Mateschitz, why did he decide to launch his F1 team in England and not Austria?
    So here you have 3 different foreign teams (French, German and Austrian) who decided to settle their operations in England, rather tnan in their own country.
    Coincidence? I don't think so.
    Maybe Ferrari could learn from that ? Or maybe not...
     
  20. amerikalei

    amerikalei Karting

    May 23, 2011
    196
    It sure seemed like Mosely had it out for Dennis & McLaren, but I've never understood the source of the animosity. Has that ever come to light?
     
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  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't know for sure, but Mosley and Dennis were rivals at one time with different F1 teams; MARCH and McLaren.
    McLaren thrived, but MARCH failed. We may not have to look further than than.


    But, Mosley, like Ecclestone; was a poacher who became a game keeper.
    I mean Mosley (lawyer) and Ecclestone were leading the cause of the F1 constructors for years against the FIA.
    They manage to overthrow the FIA President Ballestre to organise F1 to their liking.
    Mosley, now FIA President, handed all the F1 rights to Ecclestone who made a fortune; that upset some people.
    All that didn't happen without ruffling a few feathers and hurting some egos, of course.

    "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
     
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  22. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    I agree in that Moskey had a grudge against Dennis (oh, well, who hadn't), but lots of people at McLaren, including Ron Dennis were aware of the leak and everybody knows that using stolen property is not allowed.

    Anyway, the biggest issue was not in the crime but in the way Ron dealt with it. Renault and Toyota admitted the problem, paid a fine and everything was forgiven while Ron denied everything until it was too late. Let's not also forget that McLaren would have escaped without any penalty if Ferrari and the Italian Federation a had not asked for further explanations. So FIA was not severe with McLaren at first, but at that point the **** already had hit the fan and they had to do something.

    Right now, I don't think there is an anti-Ferrari bias at FIA. But I do think that FIA is more influenced by others, first Red Bull and later Mercedes. Nothing personal against Ferrari, it's just that FIA has to return favours: both Red Bull and Mercedes pumped a lot of money into F1, while Ferrari sucks it from F1.
     
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  23. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    I don't think it's coincidence either. I think all 3 recognized that it's far easier to buy an existing, established racing operation than to try to start from scratch. I certainly agree that part of that preference is the recognition of the existing skill base in England versus in their home location, making it much easier to recruit and staff up to enhance existing staff in England versus recruit from scratch in a different location.
     
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  24. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    The explanation is simple: buying an existing team is cheaper than starting from scratch. Mateschitz bought an Italian team too, and BMW bought Sauber, because those were available back then.

    In the end, I think that British prolificity in F1 comes from the Ford Cosworth, that allowed many British teams to survive without direct support from big manufacturers that in the UK didn't exist, until German, French and Japanese money arrived in the 80s. And from then on, it was just a matter of numbers.
     
  25. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    It's about suppliers too. There is a choice of small workshops in England, specialised in making components at short notice.
    It makes it easier for a team to oursource some of their work rather than trying to do everything in-house.
     
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