2020 Barcelona Testng: Feb. 19th - 21st & Feb. 26th - 28th | Page 18 | FerrariChat

2020 Barcelona Testng: Feb. 19th - 21st & Feb. 26th - 28th

Discussion in 'F1' started by jgonzalesm6, Feb 6, 2020.

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  1. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
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    The Ferrari customer cars are showing more straight line speed vs the factory cars, so Ferrari will be moving up the time sheets in the second series of tests.
    They're worked on things other than straight line speed this past week to understand the car better than they did last year when they turned up the power and celebrated their perceived success too early.
     
  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's not only the budget that matters, but how you spend it !!!

    I doubt if Ferrari has a lower budget than Mercedes-AMG or Red Bull anyway ...
     
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  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,264
    Pandora's box has been opened.....

    Let us postulate that "the powers that be" decide to disqualify the Merc steering system.

    It is still possible to build a steering box that performs "essentially" the same 'toe change when steering into a turn' bu moving the steering arm pickup points fore (into turn) and aft (out of turn) performing the same toe change. This kind of steering box would only weigh a couple of pounds more than the current steering boxes, and would be completely legal.

    So the technology of toe change inside the regulations remains open--what the Merc system does is prove the amount of lap time gain that is available.
     
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  4. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Everything about Ricciardo says to me that he has resigned to being a journeyman driver. Going to Renault was saying "I can't beat Max" and that poisoned him at any other major team...he made himself into a number two driver. At Renault he became a number one at a number 4 team. I think Ocon will demote Ricci to number two. From there, he and Kimi are headed to Formula E. Hopefully he saved his money, will buy some car dealerships or pubs in Australia and maybe do some color commentary for Sky Sports. Kimi can continue doing adds for sunglasses, and maybe judge ice fishing competitions. Vettel can lurk around the pits and become a part owner, like Berger did. The only championship Ferrari has a chance of winning is the Driver's...but as a full team they are dead. If Mercedes stays in for another two years, I think Max will move there, Leclerc will go to Red Bull, Alfa and Haas and Williams will drop out, Renault will be bought by McLaren, and the grid will be lucky to field 14 cars.
     
  5. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Re: DR moved to Renault for a number of reasons. 1) Horner & Marko favored Max from the get-go and NOT because he could not beat Max. 2) Obviously PAY is a factor in a P4 or P5 team....$30 million is way more than what RedBull iwas paying PLUS 3) being #1.
     
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  6. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    I do not doubt Ferrari has a lower budget than Merc.
     
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  7. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    or Red Bull + Alpha Tauri + Honda
     
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  8. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes, slightly lower in 2019.
    Ferrari $463M against $484M for Mercedes-AMG
    Red Bull declared $445M.
     
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  9. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Much higher impact for Ferrari than these other unbelievably large companies.
     
  10. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    I hope Ferrari are as open to innovation this year. Interesting assessment of new Mercedes.

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/148398/mercedes-explains-aggressive-design-philosophy

    Mercedes has explained in more detail the "aggressive" design changes that have resulted in its new W11 2020 Formula 1 car being "streaks ahead" of its predecessor.

    While most of the interest surrounding Mercedes has revolved around its dual-axis steering (DAS), technical director James Allison said at last week's opening pre-season test at Barcelona that was just one update to a car "festooned with innovation".

    In a video the team released on Sunday, Allison said the team decided to be as revolutionary as it could with its design, even though last year's W10 ended the campaign strongly.

    "The temptation for us was just to keep polishing that one, after all it finished the season really strongly and it was developing very fast all the way through the year, so there was still lots of opportunity to make that one quicker," he said.

    "That conservative approach was very, very tempting. But in the end, we decided that wouldn't be enough.

    "We were feeling the breath of our opponents on our shoulders. We know their hunger and we know that if we don't do something impressive with this car, they will eat us up and leave us behind.

    "So, we decided that we would make a car that was aggressive.

    "Despite the fact that there is no change in the regulations, we would take every part of the car and see if we could challenge ourselves to make it better."

    Allison added there have been "hundreds" of design changes on the W11, including new front suspension, which offers more aerodynamic opportunity, smaller sidepods to aid airflow, and a bold step with its rear suspension.

    "You're not going to see all the detail, but I can tell you that the rear suspension on this car is extremely adventurous," he said.

    "Specifically on the lower rear wishbone, we have put a new geometry in there, a new geometry that gives us more aerodynamic opportunity, allows us to get more downforce on the car."

    Reflecting on the overall package compared to last year's W10, Allison said: "We have got a car here that is streaks ahead of that one in terms of downforce.

    "We have got a car here whose development slope has kicked up, is steeper than the one that we finished last year's with, in that very, very good car from 2019.

    "And we've got a car here that we hope will be fertile ground to develop strongly all the way through the 2020 season."
     
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  11. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    I have to say that although the SF-1000 looks like a nicely refined version of last year's car I think Ferrari just don't push the envelope like Merc and RBR. For instance they still don't have a slimmed down nose, or the extreme side pod sculpting the others do. It's almost like they expect the competition to stand still while they do and progressive evolution of a now year old design. A design which admittedly was now copied by the almost entirety of the grid for its side pod design.

    As regards Merc's DAS, I find it hard to believe that a system that affects fundamental SUSPENSION settings such as ride height (as a function of steering arm movement rotating the upright around the combined caster and kingpin inclination angles - and hence why the POU is used for aero benefit) and static camber settings is legal; especially considering that the input to the steering system is not an actual "steering" command, that is, a command of a change of direction is a blatant command to reset suspension and steering configuration.

    I expect that toeing in the front wheels on the straight raises the front wing so reducing downforce and thus drag while also reducing tire scrub.
     
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  12. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    The way the rules are written the system might as well be legal but I don’t understand why the FIA didn’t amend them straight away when mercedes first inquired about it.
    For sure it’s not in the spirit of what should be considered steering. They ruined another year before it even started.
    After all they kept changing the way the fuel flow, oil and battery charge was measured week in week out when there was the still unfounded suspicion Ferrari was cleverly getting an advantage.
     
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  13. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    That includes the engines?

    Mercedes talks about its engine facilities as a separate entity and Red Bull gets them for free.
     
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  14. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    #439 Igor Ound, Feb 24, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
    Btw, re-reading the rules, and if changing a car’s toe in toe out without the use of tools is considered illegal in conditions of parc ferme, the system should be allowed only after the start of the race at best or be completely outlawed. Don’t see why changing toe angles should be considered differently from changing camber angles. It’s definitely not “steering”:


    A car is under parc ferme conditions from the moment it leaves the pitlane during qualifying until the start of the race.

    Article 34.6 of the rules also adds: “A competitor may not modify any part on the car or make changes to the set-up of the suspension whilst the car is being held under parc fermé conditions.

    “In the case of a breach of this Article the relevant driver must start the race from the pit lane and follow the procedures laid out in Article 36.2.

    “In order that the scrutineers may be completely satisfied that no alterations have been made to the suspension systems or aerodynamic configuration of the car (with the exception of the front wing) whilst in pre-race parc fermé, it must be clear from physical inspection that changes cannot be made without the use of tools.”
     
  15. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Absolutely agree with these statements. As you rightly say the FIA has no issue making up rules on the spot all the time, addition to your example see the way they constantly added more weight and in different places when they tried to outlaw Red Bull's wings or the exhaust blown diffuser, which the FIA claimed was ''using internal parts of the engine to influence aero''. If the FIA considered that to be moving aero, surely changing toe when using the steering wheel to erm, not steer, is influencing aero and suspension as well.

    It goes against spirit of the rules at bare minimum. Aero can be argued and seeing as it won't do any steering, I relate it more to suspension than steering, also.
     
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  16. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    this is my fear too. How in the hell do they really want to police it all? All the big teams have to do is set up different factions and invoice the team a single dollar for work carried out.
     
  17. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It will be exciting to see the new Tatra engines Mercedes will be putting in the back of their race cars. The Lada engines Ferrari will use are sure to be source of great glee for many.
     
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  18. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Manchester City, uh?

    It's a matter of who and when.
     
  19. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    Most cars need toe in to improve straight line stability so to remove it completely (0 toe) on the straight IMO would make the car very nervous & twitchy.

    Unfortunately for the other teams, the FIA never defined the steering system and it components, ie where it starts and where it stops. They obviously see the loophole once Mercedes contacted them mid season last year with their idea and have closed that exploitation of the rules with the new 2021 regulations, effectively giving Mercedes the upper hand for 2020 if it proves to be a benefit. Personally shifting toe in and out at high cornering speeds can / could cause rapid over / understeer if used in the wrong place.

    Altering toe in / out on the move must be classified as passive steer?
     
  20. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
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    Seems like for now they only deploy it on the straight,so cornering will be the same as before ,the gains on the straight.

    Then again they may well find some benefit at certain circuits at different point on the track.We might see that later this week.

    Merc themselves say it is just the tip of the iceberg containing a ton of upgrades /improvement ,which is making Vettel looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights of something heading towards him.
     
  21. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari: new wings and a different engine hood in Barcelona


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    In the second collective test session scheduled on Wednesday on the Catalan track, the SCuderia will bring an aerodynamic package that has been designed for Australia. It is possible that there is also a change to the rear suspension after the subsidence on the Hauss of Magnussen, since the arms are the same.

    In the second Barcelona winter test, Ferrari is destined to change its face: as we had anticipated on Motorsport.com on the Montmelò track, the aerodynamic package with which the Scuderia will compete for the first race of the 2020 world championship in Australia will debut.


    Do not expect drastic changes on the SF1000: just to be very clear, we must not think that there may be a narrow nose, following the design of Mercedes and Red Bull.

    The Rossa in Spain will bring two new wings (front and rear) to increase the load (the front one that was used in test 1 was the same as the Reggio Emilia presentation), and will show an engine hood that is already an evolution of that much tapered with which Ferrari drove in the first three Catalan days.


    And it is by no means excluded that there is an intervention on the rear suspension, after the failure that occurred on Kevin Magnussen's Haas on Friday, when the Dane crashed at turn 7 after a spin due to the breakdown of a carbon kinematic mechanism.

    Since the suspensions of the VF-20 are the same as those of the Ferrari SF1000 and Alfa Romeo C39, it is normal that the problem has been addressed and solved by the Maranello technical office to prevent it from happening again.

    The Scuderia, therefore, will go and find out what the true potential of the Rossa is with more driven strategies in the fast lap to find out what the true value of the SF1000 is, a single-seater that has so far raised many doubts ...


    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/test-f1-ferrari-a-barcellona-nuove-ali-e-diverso-cofano-motore/4694397/&prev=search
     
  22. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Let's see how well the Mercedes steering works after Max gives it one of his wheel-on-wheel bump and runs? :eek:
     
  23. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    redeemed himself at Hockenheim 2019. A fine drive against the mighty Mercedes !
     
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  24. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    True for an everyday passenger car. Not true for a race car, or even an HPDE car. I run neutral toe on my 360 for HPDE. Yes it is noticeable on straights, but does not take any undue effort to control. I'm sure the boys in F1 can handle it.
     
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  25. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    He was not in the hunt in 2019, so hardly redemption for losing the 2018 WDC, beginning with his shunt at Hockenheim.
     
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