losing the soul | Page 4 | FerrariChat

losing the soul

Discussion in 'SF90 Stradale' started by Dan D'Agostino, Jun 7, 2019.

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  1. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Fine for a racing car but distracting in a road car. These vibrations can also create structural issues for the tub and other chassis components over time.
     
  2. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3

    May 3, 2014
    2,079
    UK
    Couldn’t agree more. If someone wants a limo it’s probably best they avoid the F50.
     
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  3. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Indeed. The F50 under the skin is quite an emotional event. The only concern I would have is if cast iron made contact with aluminum anywhere (even if gaskets acted as the dielectric) as damaging corrosion would be inevitable. I don't think anyone ever reported this on the F50.
     
  4. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3

    May 3, 2014
    2,079
    UK
    Sorry to be pedantic, but have you ever driven an F50?

    I’ve driven my F50 many times in central London, and on a very slow, very hot procession from Fiorano to Modena to mark the 70th anniversary. The only distractions are the attention of super enthusiastic road users and pedestrians.

    And what structural issues? I’ve not heard of a single issue, ever. And the technician who works on mine is one of very best in the UK. Btw, Piero Ferrari has an F50 in his personal collection. That’s good enough for me.
     
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  5. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,952
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    DJS
    Very well written and very accurate for capturing my thoughts too.
     
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  6. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
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    Matt F
    You do understand that countless road cars have cast iron engine blocks and aluminum heads, right?

    Matt
     
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  7. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    I would imagine that Piero has all the Ferrari hypercars. I never said that the F50 is less than amazing, as are all big 5. The fact that they dropped the stressed-member engine approach though tells all one needs to know.
     
  8. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3

    May 3, 2014
    2,079
    UK
    When I discussed the F50 with Ramaciotti, her rather famous designer, my sense it was for far more mundane reasons than you’re implying.

    You didn’t answer my question whether you’ve actually driven an F50, even though you’ve been vocal about its so called structural issues. Assuming you haven’t feel free to pop over and see for yourself how sweet it is.
     
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  9. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    I was clearly trying to side-step this land mine and avoid making it personal, sir.
    No, I have not driven one, but I have ridden in one, so I have a perspective regarding the NVH. I am not a ludite either, suppleness is not my thing.
    The structural issues are not in my imagination, any automotive engineer can inform us about them.

    PS: Let me re-iterate how much I like the F50. It is me 3rd favourite Ferrari, after the LaFerrari and the Enzo. Whether we like it or not, every new car is better than its predecessor, just as per Enzo's decree. ;)
     
  10. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
    1,160
    Europe
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    Barry K
    Just more nonsense as usual. For a start Enzo never decreed that.
    What he did say is that "the best Ferrari is the one that hasn't been built yet".

    Enzo was smart marketer. His statement allows for the next Ferrari not to be as good as the last one.

    Sir, often it is said that it is better to quit while you are ahead. In your case, it may still be a good idea to quit even though you are behind. :)
     
  11. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Aug 31, 2001
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    Cavallo
    I believe this should satisfactorily answer any questions about the F50:

    https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ferrari/f50/1995/1995-ferrari-f50-2/

    F50 development was aided by input from three-time World Champion Niki Lauda and racer Gerhard Berger. Furthermore:

    Being rigidly mounted, the engine transmits a high level of noise and vibration to the cabin. Even at tickover, a gentle tremor murmurs through the chassis, the pedals trembling beneath your feet. At high speed and high revs, the tremor swells to something measurable on the Richter scale, so that the whole vehicle is alive and vibrant, shaking the images in the rearview mirror to a blur. But this, like the need for ear plugs, is an essential part of the experience, and once you've tasted it, you'll crave more.
     
  12. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705
    Wow...sounds like heaven...where do I sign up??
     
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  13. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
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    Vegas baby
    When ever someone asks me what "soul" is, I say drive a classic car from the 60's and you'll understand how cars can have a soul.

    I've been lucky enough to drive a 250 Lusso GT. Talk about soul. The engine is like a musical instrument but you can FEEL IT in the bottom of your seat. The gearbox whines and vibrates. The shift feels like you're actually moving pieces of steel around. The gauges move and jiggle organically. The brakes feel like you are physically attached to them through the pedal.

    Its not just the Lusso that gives you that. E-type jags also have similar emotional feedback. My Dino had it too. They haven't made another engine that sounds like a Dino.

    So has soul been lost? Of course. But on the other hand we have safety, speed, and reliability. And I really wonder today how much a completely hand built car like the Lusso would be priced if you could make something in Italy today just like it.
     
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  14. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    I can certainly tell that Chris Harris hates vibrations as much as you do:

     
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  15. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Yes. Similar metals avoid the problems.
     
  16. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,482
    Have you noticed that some of you think that Ferrari lost its soul after the F50,while others say that it was with the FIAT era cars and so on?

    WHEN did Ferrari exactly lost its soul?
     
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  17. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 15, 2012
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    I can't believe this has devolved into a debate about the F50. It's the best halo car Ferrari ever made and could ever make, if things like NA V12's and manual transmissions mean anything to you. Neither the 288 or F40 ever did anything for me. In fact, when I first saw an F40 circa 1995, I thought it was ugly and as primitively finished as a kit car.

    I will not drink the turbo V8 Kool-Aid.
     
  18. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    F1-derived V12 mounted to CF monocoque mated to manual transmission. If that doesn't represent the absolute ethos of Ferrari soul, I don't know what does...
     
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  19. stavura

    stavura Formula 3

    Sep 1, 2016
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    Harold Lounge
    The day they started making road cars according to some.
     
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  20. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Sir, you are not only offensive, but nonsensical as well.
    It is pretty obvious that by saying that the best Ferrari has not been built yet, Enzo looked into the future. Would the next model be worse than the previous one? Highly unlikely!!! Of course he meant kind for kind; not a LaFerrari vs a California!!!
    Please take some of your own medicine and stop following me. Cheers.
     
  21. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK

    I have met CH. I do not regard him as some sort of an automotive savant. On the same day I also met Button. Guess who I liked more...
     
  22. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    The Ferrari F1 ethos is encompassed by the next, greatest thing. You do know that Ferrari was the firsts F1 squad that introduced the paddle shifters in 1989. No? ;)
     
  23. MassAppeal

    MassAppeal Karting

    Mar 28, 2018
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    Mass Appeal
    I wonder what this forum will say when Ferrari goes full EV. The only thing that will then separate them from other cars would be aero, handling, weight management/distribution, power delivery, torque vectoring capabilities, and exterior/interior design. Otherwise, no exclusive and special Ferrari V6s, V8s, or V12s that sing the song of their people.
     
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  24. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Full electrification is many years away. Some pundits say that the future is not electric, but fuel cell driven.
     
  25. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
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    Nov 20, 2003
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    What???
     
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