488 Replacement | Page 96 | FerrariChat

488 Replacement

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ajr550, Feb 21, 2018.

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  1. howydo

    howydo Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2009
    588

    I don’t think people are talking about the FL. They are talking about the actual replacement for the 488 (new platform). It’ll never be 500k though or Ferrari will price themselves out of the market in that segment.
     
  2. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570
    This is what EVERY fan of the 458/488 and all other mid-engine Ferrari buyers of the past 50 years needs to come to grips with...THERE IS NO DIRECT REPLACEMENT COMING!
    The F142M-FL showing at Geneva in two weeks is the final iteration of the most beloved and popular segment of the Ferrari line-up in its glorious history... the 'relatively' affordable
    mid-engine Ferrari V-8 ... whose lineage began with the 308 and is now coming to an end...
    the F-142M-FL is the last one.

    After the 142M-FL, the mid-engine Ferrari line-up is forking ... AND NEITHER PRONG OF THE FORK is what everyone is used to. Which PRONG will be the successor to the 488 platfom? That depends on what your definition of the platform is. If you define it strictly as regular production Ferrari mid-engine with 8-cylinders... then the successor is the F173... also referred to on these pages as the BB or Big Brother. Here's the rub though ... the mid-engine Ferrari
    8-cylinder is moving upmarket dramatically IN BOTH PRICE AND PERFORMANCE LEVEL ... INTO LAFERRARI PERFORMANCE ENVELOPE TERRITORY AND PRICED SIGNIFICANTLY ABOVE THE 488... this is going to be a circa $500k car all-in at the very least!

    If you consider the successor to be a 'relatively' affordable mid-engine Ferrari that in its modern form will get you to 60mph in around 3.0 seconds and generate around 700 or so horsepower and be priced in the $300k range decently optioned ... you will be able to have all of these things ... but only in a 6-cylinder car and that starts in 2021.

    Mid-engine Ferrari fans are sleeping on how significant this 142M-FL is. It's the last of the 'relatively' affordable Ferrari dream cars that thousands of non-ultra wealthy but hard-working professionals worked hard to obtain ... the mid-engine Ferrari V-8. Yes...many many 488 buyers are UHNW individuals who could afford ANY car... even those costing many times the 488 ...
    but they also buy the 488 because up until now it was the only production Ferrari that has that trapezoid race car proportion giving it that exotic look and mid-engine low polar moment of inertia giving it that go-kart like tossability that no front engine car can match. And that type of buyer will not even blink at a $500k+ or higher entry point. That being said ... for MOST buyers ... another $200k on top of the sticker of a current 488 is going to price them out of the market.
    And yes ... they will get over it because Ferrari will make sure that the effective replacement for this bread and butter model ... the coming in 2021 mid-engine 6-cylinder TT KERS car ...
    will have 750 ish horsepower and be faster than the 488 and it will look and handle fabulously and it will be priced with a $300k handle. So it will be fine...but let's face it ... an 8-cylinder is not the same as a 12-cylinder and likewise a 6-cylinder is not the same as an 8-cylinder. It just isn't.

    So let's all take a moment and reflect upon the fact that the era of the working professionals' aspirational mid-engine Ferrari V-8 is effectively over after the F142M-FL. If you are someone that has built your career up and worked many long days and nights to get that brand new custom specced Ferrari mid-engine 8-cylinder exotic ... and the prospect of dropping ANOTHER $200-300k on top of the $350k you were saving up is a stretch too far...you might want to make your way down to your local Ferrari dealer this weekend and get your name down on the car being shown in Geneva next month. Because this is the last time you will ever be able to.
    And if you don't know ...
    now you know.
     
    JimEakin, F2003-GA, Bmill and 19 others like this.
  3. Stryker1808

    Stryker1808 Rookie

    Jul 10, 2015
    40
    Not crazy..."last of xxx" is always a good pitch. Last of NA, last of MT, etc etc. But if this will be a mass production car, prob still wiser to buy on the down curve.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  4. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570
    I'm not trying to make a case that the F142M-FL won't depreciate. Of course it is going to for a few years. Any non-number-limited Ferrari will, no matter how 'significant.' That is so obvious it doesn't even need to be said. What I AM saying is this ... for ALOT of buyers ... they really want a brand new factory fresh car specified in every detail to their liking. That's their priority. That's their dream. Some people are working furiously night and day right now to achieve that dream. To sit down with their salesman at the dealership and look at leather swatches and stitching samples. To have Ferrari build something just for them. Their own collaborative
    co-creation. It's not all about missing the first $70k of depreciation for many buyers. And for those people who were dreaming that dream and working and saving toward it ... and $500k would be too dear a price and ...
    a 6-cylinder car, no matter how meritorious, is still somehow ... less than ...
    they should get on the list for this Geneva car sooner rather than later.
    And it's actually going to be a really cool car...
     
    Bmill, howydo, WM458 and 5 others like this.
  5. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
    Just need a name for it ..how about " 488 Finale"
     
  6. daflk

    daflk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2013
    257
    Hong Kong
    How about this

    4xx Evoluzione Finale

    Sounds sick


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 15, 2012
    33,708
    Texas/Colorado
    Full Name:
    George Pepper
    I don't think they'll use 488, but 488M would be short and to the point.
     
  8. gto85

    gto85 Rookie

    Mar 19, 2018
    33
    Formigine, Modena
    Full Name:
    Gabriel
    #2383 gto85, Feb 22, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
    4xx EXX (Extinction)
     
    Roland1688 and cridom60 like this.
  9. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,533
    Vegas baby
    If Ferrari made a smaller, lighter, and more sporty car I don't care about the number of cylinders or top speed as long as the acceleration is in the lower 3 sec range. The hybrid part would bother me as it adds weight and complexity. On the other hand, if it got rid of the turbos that would take some complexity away.

    It has to be good looking though. These are works of art. I pay that much money because I like the way it looks, sounds, feels, smells, drives, and makes me feel when I'm in it. There are plenty of "fast cars" out there to choose from.

    But, I'm probably in the minority so they will do the opposite. :)
     
    F2003-GA, Bmill, kandi and 3 others like this.
  10. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570
    The entry level mid-engine car coming in 2021 will need to have approx 750hp to stay competitive with Macca. It's likely going to be 2.9 liter V-6 to avoid displacement tariffs in many European and Asian markets. It needs to be hybrid because many large cities such as London and Paris for starters are steadily regulating out running combustion engines in their city centers. It will need to have approx 50-mile zero-emission electric range to be practical. And it's going to also need turbos to get that small displacement V-6 up to 600hp, with the hybrid KERS chipping in another 150 to bring the total up to 750hp. This is going to be Ferrari's new bread and butter car and the lowest price mid-engine offering. So as much as many would love a smaller lighter car, the stronger forces of regulation, market competition and profit margin obsessed stockholders preclude them from realistically ever doing so.
    There will be no sub-$200k mid-engine 'Dino.' ( Give it up already bloggers ) The good news?
    It will look great, sound great even with turbos ... and it will hit 60 in 2.8 seconds - not low 3s.
    Expect a step up in performance from the 488 and priced in the low to mid $300k range.
     
    F2003-GA, Bmill, tekaefixe and 4 others like this.
  11. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,280
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    Very interesting post , thanks .
    The 488 facelift will be 720 hp so I guess it's hybrid replacement should be close 800 hp instead 750 hp ?
     
  12. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570
    I'm going to say 750 ish on the bhp because remember ... turbo-charged engines make massive mid-range torque for their displacement. And electric motors produce GIGANTIC low-end torque as well. Isn't 90% of our spirited driving performed under 100mph? With all that low-end torque and mid-range pull, the acceleration from almost any speed or for any passing situation is going to be way more than enough for 95% of owners. The top end of the engine's performance even at a 'mere' 750 hp will almost never get used. This car is going to be faster than the 488 at every point in the throttle. I don't think they need to or will ... hit 800hp in this car. Just my opinion.
     
    Roland1688 likes this.
  13. WM458

    WM458 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2014
    446
    Germany
    Originally there was even no increase from 458 to 488. Ferrari was afraid of the turbo engine would (not) be adopted.
    One year after the launch they adjusted the MSRP by about 6%.
     
  14. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,280
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Agree with you ..
    So how about the 1000hp BB F173 ?
     
  15. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570
    I am not sure what you are asking about the 173 but I will assume it is projected horsepower...

    I project it will be right around 900bhp. It has to be more than 150hp over the 142M-FL in order to justify an additional $200k+ in price. And also this car has a mandate to be faster in every respect than a LaFerrari. They don't need to get there through sheer bhp alone. It will likely be a bit lighter and more compact than the LaF combined with advances in electric driven turbo, new gearbox, second generation hybrid and KERS plus other electronic traction and power delivery aids ... all that AND by seamlessly combining 3 types of motivation to the car... enabling them to better optimize each one versus having just 2 types ...it should be able to actually beat the LaF around a track and on a drag strip. Consider that this is a regular production car. Obtainable by
    non-billionaires and customers who don't have 30 Ferraris in their garage. Mind blowing really.
    I believe Ferrari will save the honor and headlines of exceeding 1,000 bhp for either the LaFerrari successor or the prospective F40 Icona which, if built, would be a 173 on steroids and hopefully would see the proper iconic giant rear wing returned as well.

    The 173 is going to be astonishing in every way. Upcoming emissions regulations are forcing Ferrari's hands into having hybrid capability to run in city centers on electric only.
    Ferrari is inevitably going all in on hybrid cars. They have no choice. What this car is going to do is establish Ferrari Hybrid Power as the absolute must have...the pinnacle. It needs to make everything that came before it look old and slow... so that Ferrari buyers attribute spectacular performance to hybrid and then everyone says to themselves 'I want a hybrid Ferrari.' They are absolutely going to knock the cover off the ball with this car... they have to... the entire company is riding on it. Prepare for your jaw to be on the floor by the next Monaco Grand Prix.
     
  16. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2013
    6,764
    Texas
    Full Name:
    John
    I think you are correct in that for many of us depreciation is not the biggest factor but being able to “co-create” our dream car is. Those who wait for the depreciation to hit are equal fans. I don’t get why one would denigrate the other.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  17. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,280
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Post of the year for me !
    Thanks

    Q : why so few spy pics ?
     
  18. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    16,445
    ON
    Full Name:
    CH
    Succinctly illuminated in sharp detail and sadly all true. Ferrari makes plans to abandon the so called 'affordable' V8 mid-engine sports car market to others....
     
  19. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2017
    1,129
    Nice post. This rang true for me as but for the 488 GTB because I love the looks as a “458.2” of sorts, whereas this facelift is alleged to deviate from that design a bit. Only time will tell I guess whether that’s accurate or not

    Wanted a mid engine V8 Ferrari I could spec to my own taste since I was a teenager with the 360 CS on my walls. Thought for a bit, should I get an used F12 or Speciale instead but for my “needs” in a car very happy with where I ended up.

    If it was north of 400-500k it wouldn’t be happening!






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

    May 28, 2016
    951
    Assuming you place an order, from the time you receive the car to the time the entirely new model and platform comes out, you have 2 years. That's a very short time, once you factor in delivery too.
     
  21. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
    1,368
    Full Name:
    T
    Wouldn't there be another 2+ years of waiting when the new model launches?
     
    Motorwerks likes this.
  22. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,533
    Vegas baby
    The reason I say low 3's is because I think today's cars are actually too fast to be enjoyable on city streets, where 99.9999% of their time being driven will be. So, I could live with less if the car was more nimble and sporty in character.
     
    theplanner and G. Pepper like this.
  23. aobao1993

    aobao1993 Formula Junior

    Feb 3, 2017
    415
  24. maximilien

    maximilien Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2005
    725
    Capitale of Europe
    Full Name:
    Massimo
    F2003-GA and F140C like this.
  25. kandi

    kandi Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2014
    1,655
    F142M-FL in two configurations (colours) - like two Pista's a year ago.
    One in a shade of blue. And the other one?
     
    F140C and G. Pepper like this.

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