488 Pista - qualifying demands | Page 38 | FerrariChat

488 Pista - qualifying demands

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Doctor Mark, Oct 18, 2018.

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  1. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

    May 28, 2016
    951
    Because that would greatly tarnish Ferrari's reputation and alienate many folks from the brand. Sure, you'll make a lot of money selling select cars that way, but you end up pricing out many more. That will run out after 6-8 months when more of the in-demand car begins to hit the market. They can do this with limited/numbered cars (look at some of the F12 tdf cars with nothing but delivery and service miles still sitting at dealerships), as that's it and you effectively know the final number. With a Pista, it will run until the end of 488 production cycle, which still has over a year to go.

    Keep in mind Ferrari builds other cars, just like many other manufacturers, with more than one assembly line. The goal is to keep them all flowing.
     
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  2. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    If it is indeed true that Pista's will be made until the end of the 488 cycle then that means a lot of cars, which then means it becomes a commodity and as available as a 488. This would not be good for the brand. I like the idea of exclusivity and the Pista package is well deserving.
     
  3. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    You get the point.
     
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  4. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

    May 28, 2016
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    The end of the 488 cycle means around 1.5 more years at most. Considering Ferrari makes around 8K cars/year, I believe their goal is to be at 10K later on, even if 30% of all their cars are Pistas, that would leave around 4-5K (this is an absolute best case scenario) total (Coupe, Spider, Piloti), consider they made 799 458 Apertas, and that was limited. At a minimum, total Pista production will be more than the 458 Speciale + Aperta, as they won't have the production limit on the Spider. Anything else dealers tell you is marketing to get folks to fold into their ways, like buying a Lusso/Portofino/flavor of the month.

    The Pista will be produced until the end of the 488 cycle, that was directly referenced in their press marketing material at Geneva during the public unveiling. Almost every person is lining up to buy a Pista, many as investments or flip, so dealers have to cycle through that and filter, it isn't easy considering they just are taking delivery of them within the past month.

    Be calm, have sufficient history with your dealer (this all depends on your market) and don't piss off your dealer. They will work down their list because they'll know their specific customer's financial ability (manufacturer doesn't) and how they will approach the transaction: trade, no trade-in, all cash, etc. If you have a trade-in, there'll be an extra step because now the dealer also has to manage it with their existing pre-owned inventory, they can't have a sudden influx of used 488 cars in a short amount of time, it ties up credit and will create downward pressure when having to sell them.

    It ain't easy.
     
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  5. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2016
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    My dealer advised me that took their final order for a 488 several weeks ago so that basically confirms to me we’re at the end of the cycle


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  6. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    So does that mean they are only taking orders for Pistas now? That will certainly be a lot of cars as well.
     
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  7. theplanner

    theplanner Karting

    Jul 3, 2018
    83
    The end for 488gtb & spider but not Pista...
     
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  8. SB27

    SB27 Karting

    Dec 2, 2015
    125
    I don't know the answer to this question but in the first week of September 2018, I saw directly that at least 30% of the cars on the current 488 line at Maranello were Pista models. If indeed the 488 order book is closing, then that line will move closer to a majority of units being Pista's (and Portofinos -- also being built on the same line). You have to assume they are also cranking out the Pista Spyder (it's beautiful .... and should sell very, very well).

    I think Porsche does this now with the GT3. I recall that this year's GT3 production will be in the neighborhood of 3,000 units to NA (these numbers do not include the 2RS or the 3RS which likely adds another 1,000 or more units). That is a lot of cars (I bought a GT3 also...and I am new to the brand since owning a 944 Turbo S decades ago) ... but it also means a lot of happy drivers and a lot of people now associated directly with the brand as owners. I would love to buy a Pista or Pista Spyder. Should it become easier and hassle free to do so, I will order one to sit alongside my California T (which I still really enjoy and hope to own for a very long time).

    I guess the point here is: Make your limited production cars very limited (500 units) and then, with the rest of the model lineup, make as many cars as you feel is appropriate to serve the needs of potential long time customers who may end up buying / owning numerous cars over the next decade....which means millions in revenue to the company. I think Porsche is coming around to this. I hope Ferrari does also. The elephant in the room is how do you do this without feeding flippers (I am a buy, own and drive owner). One way to stop flipping is to make it know that you will sell more freely to customers who are known to the dealer / company to be non-flipping, strong brand affinity owners. There are numerous ways to know that (and I suspect most dealers do so now).

    Perhaps I am being Pollyanish about this, but it seems like a good business practice to me. Sell strong brand affinity customers what they want and filter out the flippers. Sounds easy but perhaps a dealer or two here can share a more informed point of view based on the realities of what Ferrari is trying to do with their brand and with their allocations.
     
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  9. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 World Champ
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    They will probably build 3,000 Pistas +/- 500... so what? That means around 1,000 to 1300 to the US. Still a pretty damn rare car.

    I intend to drive the snot out of mine, and sell it at 5,000 miles for the newest cool car of the year from Ferrari. Will I lose money? Sure! ITS A CAR!
     
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  10. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    That’s 100% the right attitude!
     
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  11. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
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    If Ferrari announced that they will manufacture as many cars as there is demand. Walk into a dealership, place an order and your car will be delivered within a year.How many Ferrari diehards would leave the brand?
     
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  12. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

    May 28, 2016
    951
    Dealers would rather order Pistas than standard 488 cars at this point, much higher dollar amount and bottom line. Plenty of regular 488 GTB and Spiders available for the market to handle already out there.

    Been saying this since day one, right alongside exposing the games. Standard cars will still be ordered in certain cases, but expect to be pushed towards inventory on hand.
     
  13. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    Seems like a v3 of the 458/488 platform is due, which will limit Pista run most likely. Kinda bears out what a number of people have said their dealers have been saying plus someone was recently told ‘last 488 order taken’. If that’s true, the whole 488 line including Pista will end next year. Then they will pump out facelifted 488s for a year before moving to all-new Hybrid. They wouldn’t bother selling Pista and limiting sales of the new facelift car, which will no doubt be great and with higher power than Pista.

    In which case Pista will be as rare as they said. (Though the platform will have three versions for the used market to digest - make of that what you will.)
     
  14. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

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    #939 boobernackle, Dec 12, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
    Please tell me who in the right mind will order a "facelift" 488 knowing an entirely new version is less than a year away after they take delivery? Nobody, this whole facelift story to me seems like another dealer game for customers that didn't get Pista allocations, just to keep them at bay.
     
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  15. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    If they leave the were Not die hard to begin with o_O
     
  16. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    Are you serious? An open book to order a newly styled supercar of circa 720hp with a one year run, the last fully ICE model.... Hard not to order it? There would be a queue IMO.
     
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  17. wrs

    wrs F1 World Champ
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    #942 wrs, Dec 12, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
    So what this means is that if there is no replacement 488 model announced for next year then Pista model production must equal 488 gtb and gts production in order to keep the total units at least constant or rising. That amounts to about 1.5 full years of Pista production in lieu of the 488. So in essence the pista is the 488 replacement for now. The Pista is better than the 488 but only by percentages much like the Portofino than the Cali T HS.

    Seems to me that the Pista is more marketing and an attempt to keep the brand special but without losing customers that always need the latest and greatest. The replacement 488 is going to be better than the Pista but it's two years off. For the people that need to have the latest and greatest, this works great. They will get the Pista allocation and the replacement allocation in two years. Schmoes buy used.

    Most of the new Pista buyers will probably have a 488 to trade and so that will swell the inventory even more. Should be good for new entrants to the brand, they can get a 488 cheap and us schmoes that bought a new one in the last year or so will get shafted on depreciation.
     
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  18. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

    May 28, 2016
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    So you think Ferrari is going to create the Pista at 720 HP, then create a facelift in 6 months with the same amount of power for only 1 year, then follow that up with an entirely new car a year after that?

    You have any idea how bad that would burn Pista customers? If it were Lamborghini, sure, but Ferrari I would never dream would do such a thing.

    Dealers have to be updated on new cars, marketing, manufacturing, all this for a car with only a 1 year production run?

    Only time will tell.
     
  19. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

    May 28, 2016
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    I would agree, except that the Pista is way more of a bump, also, production being 1.5 years total.
     
  20. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    I don’t have any info on the new interim car but so many different fchatters have corroborated the same thing I’m guessing it’s true. It doesn’t burn Pista owners either. Pista is lower production, running for a shorter time than Speciale but my guess is they will cram, probably producing similar numbers to Speciale. The new car, as per the 488 v Speciale, will not really tread on the track-special car’s toes. Instead it will offer the pace (or more than) of the track-special and the comfort (or more than) of the standard 488. VIPs again get offered first and I bet most would take it - for those that don’t, anyone who missed out on Pista would be delighted to have a go, I’m sure. Some used Pista will find their way onto the market but many won’t. Keeps Pista used price in check a bit but I suspect they don’t mind that.

    Cue endless threads of Pista is better, 488 is better, 458 is better than them all etc....
     
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  21. iloveferrari

    iloveferrari Formula 3
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    This somehow reminds me of how the 911R customer felt when the 991.2 manual touring package came out. Some of the 911R customers were livid, and these customers were supposed to be a VVIP too for porsche. My points is unless we are those big car manufacturer, what we think individual customer sometimes could be far from predictions. So only time will tell... hey does this mean I can have a chance to get an allocation too?
     
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  22. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    Maybe they didn't:

     
  23. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    If they're leaving the brand they were never really diehards
     
  24. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    USA market is a very rich one, maybe the richest. Pista is the most interesting model Ferrari produces now: the most in demand. So they did the right move asking you to qualify to have a Pista: This way they Give a satisfaction to their best/old customers and sell some of the not much in demand Lusso.

    The Pista (very likely) will have the best resale value (means the lower loss) among the standard Ferrari actual lineup. Sure it won't be a disaster like the standard 360 and 430 were (as resale value only, of course).

    All manufactures want to gain money: The loyalty with customers is not their first goal. Look what happened with Lamborghini: The Aventador SV owners are NOT happy at all that Lamborghini then did the SVJ... Nor the 911 R owners are very happy of what Porsche did after they ordered the car.

    ciao
     
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  25. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    and actual 488 GTB requires a facelift and an upgrade to stay on the market: I think there will be a GTB 2 with some upgrade, half 488 and half Pista. The 488 replacement will be hybrid and V6T with some CF in the chassis: But not from March 2019. In March 2019 there will (probably) be a new V8 top model, the 4WD hybrid: A sort of small V8 LaFerrari. Mid point and mid priced between 488 and LaF.
     

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