2018 Monterey Car Week

Great idea for VDE.
How many mooring space for Riva, just in case for next year!

 

I was there in 2014 and must clearly confirm that the Monterey days are a money machine. Cost me about 10,000 Euros (no, not $$$s!) in all. Got most of the money back from the tax people as I brokered one of the multi-million $$$$ cars on display 4 weeks later.

But the $1,000 for the entry and 2$ for a glass of water as reported by Marcel is quite GaGa...
Now they gettin`nuts!

 

That used to be a fun week. Sounds like what will save the week is failure and a return of a previous time. If I ever go again it would to be a participant in the races.

 

After 20 plus years of going to Monterey I stopped going about 5 years ago. I attended most events and usually had comp passes for everything including the private events hosted by the manufacturers or sponsors. There is a core group individuals that pretty much follow the collector car circuit (Monterey, Amelia, Cavallino etc.) great people many on this thread.

I have been doing the Goodwood Revival instead. From the northeast it’s pretty much the same travel time to the UK as California. The hotels are slightly less outrageously priced and the food is just as bad as California Cuisine. The biggest difference is that the people attending are actually having fun at Goodwood. The fact that 80% are in period dress just Makes it especially fun, vintage cars with vintage people in vintage dress. Add in the vintage planes and military equipment. Having organized events I tend to look at things differently, flat out from an organizational standpoint Goodwood is head and shoulders above everyone else.

 

Goodwood is great as long as they don't have a repeat of the car park debacle of last year's revival and this year's members meeting (although the weather was exceptionally bad at the latter).

 

Living in Hershey and having spent many years navigating the mud fields of the Fall Meet, Goodwood wasn’t that bad.

 

Very nice place indeed, and will be there next Friday. Still racing there is quite dangerous because there is no escape outside the antiquated track . You lose it and see immediately in the tyre wall. Nevertheless enjoyed it a lot when I was racing at the last Members Meeting.
Still a lot of people can be aggressive ( for the utmost pleasure of the crowd) as there are a lot of replicas on the field,,,

 

Yes at Goodwood they do actually race. As far as the replicas are concerned, with Jaguar and Aston already building track only replicas, (and making a lot of money doing it) it’s probably just a matter of time before Ferrari, Maserati Alfa and other manufacturers start doing the same.

I’m not opposed to this as long as it’s built by the manufacturer. It will help enhance the grids and won’t effect the values of the originals. Jaguar and Aston are selling their replicas at 2 mil each, Ferrari obviously would command a greater price making the value of the cars still significant enough to be a consideration when racing them hard.

 

As a spectator...After last year's, I will not be attending the CI anymore. Total waste of money. I still enjoyed Carmel and Exotics at Cannery Row but parking, traffic, and the crowd will test your patience. Here are some random photos.

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Is there any real prize (money?) to be had in historic/vintage racing or is this "winning at all costs" approach taken just to prop up some ego/manhood short comings ?[/QUOTE]

No prize money directly involved. Star drivers past their shelf life get usually invited including planes / hotels/ money to drive to enhance the grid or by dealers or by manufacturers and in few cases by billionaires patrons.They are usually driving safely even if faster than most or all of the grid ( think Christensen, Pirro or older generation like Jochen Mass) and are usually gentlemen doing their job ( like an actor signing autographs). Still they may not be used to amateur racers with big speed differential not seeing them coming and anticipating their moves.

Two categories are much more dangerous: the second rate ex professional drivers who think they can show that only bad luck and bad cars prevented them in the past to be world champion. Put there some former BTCC drivers, DTM ones etc. And some others like some English second rate race driver famous for his bad accidents. They are super aggressive and want to show the first category they can beat them without any of the skills. ( if you look at Christensen winning the Sears trophy last year at Goodwood starting from 19 th on the grid you will understand that class and experience on a difficult circuit is more conducive than anger to win.

The last category are the frustrated amateurs would be race drivers. Some of them can be good at some point, or even quick, but lack the experience of the first category.
Having witnessed the accident caused by the well know CEO of a well known European car manufacturer at Le Mans Classic , after 3 consécutive mistakes ( going wide in a curve, going back to the opposite bank afterwards, and finally spinning back in the track facing traffic in a 100 mph curve and causing a big crash of my friend Franco Meiners) you think that as fast as he dream to be he need to slow down or he will hurt himself and others. Anyway he destroyed his car so what is the point?
Some rich and famous with multiple accident in yellow cars ( and also racing replica) are in this category although mellowed a little ( but not to the point of resisting passing on the grass and gravel under yellow flag,,)

The whole thing is actually supported by organizers who like “ the show” for spectators who think that destroying a car while racing is a normal tribute to speed.
The last participant are the dealer cum preparation who think they enhance their skills by mentioning they won this and that grid with this and that car during those races. You can see the adds by yourself. Some of them are trying to enter the US market with shops and showrooms there after demonstrating their success in Europe!

So everyone agree with the scheme except those who have genuine original cars and who care for their own life. And the life of their cars and know they will never win neither glory nor money but just enjoy a good track time in a mythical place.
Well we have to thing harder to figure out if the trade off is worth it.

 

No prize money directly involved. Star drivers past their shelf life get usually invited including planes / hotels/ money to drive to enhance the grid or by dealers or by manufacturers and in few cases by billionaires patrons.They are usually driving safely even if faster than most or all of the grid ( think Christensen, Pirro or older generation like Jochen Mass) and are usually gentlemen doing their job ( like an actor signing autographs). Still they may not be used to amateur racers with big speed differential not seeing them coming and anticipating their moves.

Two categories are much more dangerous: the second rate ex professional drivers who think they can show that only bad luck and bad cars prevented them in the past to be world champion. Put there some former BTCC drivers, DTM ones etc. And some others like some English second rate race driver famous for his bad accidents. They are super aggressive and want to show the first category they can beat them without any of the skills. ( if you look at Christensen winning the Sears trophy last year at Goodwood starting from 19 th on the grid you will understand that class and experience on a difficult circuit is more conducive than anger to win.

The last category are the frustrated amateurs would be race drivers. Some of them can be good at some point, or even quick, but lack the experience of the first category.
Having witnessed the accident caused by the well know CEO of a well known European car manufacturer at Le Mans Classic , after 3 consécutive mistakes ( going wide in a curve, going back to the opposite bank afterwards, and finally spinning back in the track facing traffic in a 100 mph curve and causing a big crash of my friend Franco Meiners) you think that as fast as he dream to be he need to slow down or he will hurt himself and others. Anyway he destroyed his car so what is the point?
Some rich and famous with multiple accident in yellow cars ( and also racing replica) are in this category although mellowed a little ( but not to the point of resisting passing on the grass and gravel under yellow flag,,)

The whole thing is actually supported by organizers who like “ the show” for spectators who think that destroying a car while racing is a normal tribute to speed.
The last participant are the dealer cum preparation who think they enhance their skills by mentioning they won this and that grid with this and that car during those races. You can see the adds by yourself. Some of them are trying to enter the US market with shops and showrooms there after demonstrating their success in Europe!

So everyone agree with the scheme except those who have genuine original cars and who care for their own life. And the life of their cars and know they will never win neither glory nor money but just enjoy a good track time in a mythical place.
Well we have to thing harder to figure out if the trade off is worth it.[/QUOTE]

Pierre, I have seen and heard this debate for 30 years and while I don't have any direct involvement I have noticed that while tours are always relatively full of great cars, be it the 8C or 250GTO tour or Tour Auto so people aren't scared of driving them per se. That said people are scared of running their original car on a track with some muppet in his developed replica and having it destroyed due to the red mist. I think this shows two major issues with the culture in historic racing circles. Firstly I always used to admire Steve Earle for the way he managed the Laguna Seca Historics until approx. 5 years ago when a new group took over. Earle used to run that event with an iron fist in a velvet glove whch always ensured that racing was fair by suspending anyone caught driving dangerously. This ensured respect on track and besides awards were handed out for participation rather than winning (at all costs), even Stirling Moss was suspended for a year after one bad race move in the 1980s. Further cars with provenance and originality always secured an entry before anyone else and any egregious mods would see you banned and that brings me onto the next point which is that since the start of the sport people have always tried to stretch the boundaries. I recall in the 1980s it was fitting modern tires to 1950s F1 cars but really the point is that decent scrutineers will know what is original, or not, and other than sensible safety mods all updos should be banned.

While slightly fake, I think historic racing should fit somewhere between demonstration runs and proper modern racing should be the aim. I mean whats wrong with saying all passing must be done on the right (on clockwise tracks) and only under green flag conditions. This would avoid the start line melee's often seen at Goodwood or Peter Auto events and I don't know that its unfair to suggest those that want full beans race driving look at either modern formulae or stockcar racing. Further, event organisers shouldn't be afraid to penalise or exclude those who break the rules, regardless of who they are. People could still pass, using skill, speed or breaking but it would be fair and would give those running confidence they aren't going to get punted off by some egg with the red mist. Ergo, even the most expensive cars would be encouraged to return. If they don't make the change, Goodwood and elsewhere need to at least ensure the replicas are accurate and not "improved".

Just my 2 cents.

 

Reading this thread is quite depressing actually. Really makes me nostalgic of the late 90s/early 2000s with the Shell Historic challenge with 412p, LMs, TRs, GTOs, 512s.., and the Tour Auto with multiple GTOs, Daytona Comps, etc. All accessible for $25 ticket on the best European tracks.

I only went to Car week once and enjoyed it but not to the point I'd go back and spend $3k again.

Sometimes I wonder if we are just jaded, if we have just seen it all already (how many vintage cars are there really?) And if the internet ruined it a bit..you have so much access to media of these cars nowadays that it makes you think twice before shelling 3k to 5k to catch a glimpse of the cars you really want to see or just stay home and see the pics.

 

While the BBLM’s did get a bit more aggressive, David Seibert did a fantastic job running the North American Ferrari/Maserati Historic Challenge Series. It was a Gentleman’s Race.

 

Agreed!!

Marcel Massini

 

Andrew

It‘s not the internet. It‘s the greedy organisers that try to squeeze out every $ without providing genuine value. Plus some posers and wannabes with replicas. Not a good combination.
I am always happy to pay good money as long as I can see real cars. No matter if I have already seen almost every Ferrari in the past fifty years.

Marcel Massini

 

I hate to even ask this, but is Dave still around?

 

You're my hero. Personally, I have migrated toward to the people who made Ferrari what it is today. I can't say I've seen every Ferrari, but I've seen enough. To me, the stories told around the campfire are much more interesting.

 

Marcel,

In somewhat of a defense of event organizers, most people don’t have a clue of what it takes to organize a quality multi day event. There are so many moving pieces, dealing with tracks, hotels, caterers, concours sites, insurance, manufacturers, dealers, vendors, sponsors, trying to secure special displays Historic cars, not to mention egos, rivalries, did I mention egos. Floating a lot of money, then waiting for slow pay sponsors and sometimes no pay, praying it doesn’t rain, knowing that all the hours of planning can become a disaster if the stars don’t line up. Did I mention egos, on more than one occasion the person you struck a deal with at a manufacturer is replaced just days before the event. I could go on and on, did I mention egos?

To give you an example, on the front of our event program at the bottom of the page we would place the logos of every sponsor. These logos are about 1.5 inches. I had one Ferrari dealer throw a fit because the horse on another dealer’s logo was larger than the one in his logo.

When I go to events, I look at it from that perspective, for the most part they’re all the same except for scale. Then there is Goodwood, that is a military operation.

Joe
PS Did you ever notice that most of the individuals that organize these events are Follicly Challenged?

 

True, but what do you think the Monterey organizers should do? Traffic has been over the top for years. Every event is jammed. Almost every event is expensive. Maybe it needs to be two weeks?