Register that vehicle anywhere in the world and what will it be listed as on the documentation? Place it at any auction, what will it be sold as? Correct, a Ferrari 250 GTO Case closed, the chassis is the car not the engine. Some small minded and blinkered people on here.
I find it fascinating Given that the 348 came after the F40 there is quite a chance then that the liner less F120/F40 engine block is a direct descendent of the F105C and could well even be dimensionally the same apart from a few slight mods to suit the turbo application. Often part numbers are different purely due to very minor changes to the item, and in practice they are interchangeable. I guess the build was sexed up a bit to say its an F40 block when in reality it an F40 type block Kevin was always very clear they are 348 heads to make use of the bigger valves. The 348 is not really seen as an engineering masterpiece so to go on record as saying they used such shows the integrity of the builder. No doubt, those in the know have always known the close association between many of those components over various models.
Yes! That's a famous extreme resto that has been around for years. I admire the guy who said, "You know what? We could fit a V12 in there."
The next 10 years will be hugely disruptive in the area of mobility and personal transport. OEM’s see a limited market for enthusiast vehicles. They are moving into electrification, autonomy and service mobility services. It will be the small cottage industry such as Mototechnique that will serve the enthusiast. These small independent companies need to find a sustainable business model that supports our passion as well as theirs and also be profitable. Most of these companies are founded and run by enthusiasts. What is one person’s dream might not be another’s. What’s important is that the customer is happy and the company and its team have a feeling of satisfaction and reward from their endeavors. I love what is going on with companies like Mototechnique! They will build and engineer what you want providing you have the funds and dreams to do it. The hot rod culture came about individuals wanting to express themselves and is healthier than ever. This movement will ensure the health of enthusiast cars to an ever younger audience for generations. Freeman
^Better to let the car sit in a museum than have it's heart ripped out and replaced with an electric motor and batteries. Lets try that with Duesenbergs! Almost no one works on them anymore. Go electric! Who cares --- it's still registered as "Duesenberg" since the chassis is a Model J -- and it looks so good going down the road! I suppose some of you would like to date a Marilyn Monroe android as well. Almost as good as the real thing -- as long as you keep it plugged in overnight. Sorry but a 250 GTO is not a 250 GTO with a Chevy motor under the hood. It's something else. An Etype Jag is not a Etype Jag with an electric motor and batteries. It's something else. And Dino is not a Dino with a modern Ferrari engine under he hood. It's something else. It may be BETTER in some ways, but it's not what it is. I pass. Well, I've said enough. Time to put those Ferrari Shields on the sides of this updated Dino. Make it look "modern"!
Way to take out the heart and soul of the E and ruining that car. I loved SNL's Weekend Update joke that Saturday. "Earlier today the actress from Suits married an unemployed guy who lives with his grandma." LOL I think that every time now I see a photo of him.
I personally would want an early 3.8 with the original drivetrain. What I think is interesting is where this all goes with personal, emotional vehicles. The great thing is we “still” have the freedom to choose. More: https://media.jaguar.com/news/2017/09/future-type-concept-jaguars-vision-2040-and-beyond?q=&start=0&brand=jaguar
I spent a ton of dough returning my 360 to stock. All of it was stereo and electronic. Boom box bass behind the seats, backup camera, super fancy in-dash stereo with putout screen - they removed over 25' of wiring - so I am committed to originality. But what others do with their cars is their own business, and some of those things I actually like. This is one of those things I actually like. My 308 is a hoot to drive, but it has most of the vintage shortcomings of the Dino. Do that number to it, and it would be incredible. True Fact: The 360 wheelbase is exactly ten inches longer than the 308, to the tenth of an inch (At least Google/Wiki say so).
I agree, and because the dino engine is so special I think it applies more so. A dino without its engine is no longer a dino.
I have a '63 E-type and have deliberately kept the original mechanicals as they were, warts and all, including the lousy brakes and the much reviled Moss gearbox (which is nowhere near as bad as its reputation would suggest - you just need to learn how to use it), so as to experience the car as it was when it first appeared (I previously had a 4.2, which is a better car, but just not the "original E-type experience"). However, I would love to have an electric one in my garage, too, if I could afford it - it sounds like an amazing piece of kit and an exciting marriage of past and future.
So, why stop at the engine? Let's swap the interior, swap the wheels, maybe add a defuser as well, but as long as we leave the chassis alone? Is that still a 250 GTO because it'll be registered as such? Or is it a 250 GTO only by name/VIN? A small minded person would be someone who states his opinion and then deems a discussion "case closed" b/c his word is law.
Here’s an interesting take on the MK2 Jag by my old collegue Ian Callum: https://www.classic-motor-cars.co.uk/mk2-by-callum-restoration_1
I do not make the rules, but those are the rules of virtually every country on the planet as to what legally defines a vehicle on its registration title, inc the replacement of any of the items you mention. So yes case closed unless you choose not to follow the rule of law in your country. Classic Ferrari example is the famous chassis under another body that Tom O purchased, I don't hear anyone on fchat stating that is not the car related to the number of that chassis. If anyone wants to own a bone stock 246 there are plenty out there to chose from, and imposing your will on someone elses property is very small minded yes.
Another example is what happens with many Porsche 904s. Many of them no longer run their 4 cylinder 4 cam motors and have been replaced with flat 6s. Many also run Fuchs alloys. Another example is the Richie Ginther Ferrari that had its 4 cylinder motor replaced by a v12: http://motormavens.com/carspotting-ferrari-625-250-testa-rossa-bruce-meyer-625tr/
I also think the chassis defines the car, but if the engine is different it is no longer that particular make and model. You'd have to describe it every time as a 250 GTO with swapped Chevy motor and not simply a GTO. And for whatever cars gets the GTO engine, you'd say it's a ____ with a GTO engine. I don't even think most GTOs are original anymore. New metal body panels, new paint, new interiors, some new mechanicals as well...
We are falling out of the realms of why this thread was started, and maybe it should be taken onto another of the many threads covering the particular issue. That the car in question remains in this section indicates that the powers to be in fchat deem it to be a Dino still, and the fact that a Dino model specific section within fchat even exists is also debatable for many die had Ferrari lovers.
Good and timely call Paul ........ it's funny to note that three of our past projects, the Gto restoration, the LM F40 and now the Monza 3.6 Evo Dino have all attracted such lively discussions. Together with some lovely mates we recently enjoyed a fantastic tour of Europe taking in the Spa Francorchamps Classic race weekend in our 300 Bhp Evo V8 Dino, tonight we board the ferry in the direction of Biarritz France where we join our French friends for a tour over the mountains down into Madrid. At the end of the month I will drive her down to Maranello and back with my Son Rob for Matthias's 50 Dino celebrations ;-} will I miss that old V6 I have stored away on a shelf .......... will I miss the thrill of wondering as to whether she'll start with my resorting to the rosary beads ......... will I miss that popping and banging as I make a left turn ?????? I don't think so !!!!! cheers all, Kev. ps, you are correct; I won't be swapping engines any time soon.
Is it the chassis, or the chassis plate? I had a very early Land-Rover once, that had stood in a field for rather more years than was good for it. Bodywork (birmabright alloy) was fine bar the paint, but the chassis was completely rotten - you could pick it up in handfuls! However, much to our delight, we discovered that the chassis plate was still OK, so it was welded to a brand new chassis, bodywork was straightened out, engine (original) de-seized and rebuilt, etc., etc. and because it still had its original chassis plate, it was re-registered on the original chassis number. Of the main components of the vehicle (chassis, engine, gearbox, drive-train, axles, bodywork), all bar the chassis and bulkhead were restored / rebuilt original. To my mind, it was still the same car, even though it had a 99.99% new chassis. And legally it was, too, despite having a new chassis. My point is this. Legal arguments aside, I don't think that there is any way of defining a car's true identity by any single component, be it chassis, engine, or whatever. It will always be a subjective thing. And in my subjective opinion, Kevin's creations are Dinos.
This is also normal to vintage Lotus and race cars. Many Elans have had their rotted chassis replaced with a new factory replacement or an upgraded Spyder chassis. Originality in many cases is based on chain of ownership and it’s always a good idea to keep the original documents and components for the next owner.
That's exactly as I said it was, then; it's a GTO by name only. Your logic otherwise means any Ferrari modified to the point where the engine/transmission is swapped and the car is modified to the point where only the chassis is left untouched, is still the same "Ferrari" that left the production line even though it no longer sounds like a Ferrari, drives like a Ferrari, or looks like a Ferrari. Because hey, the chassis is what makes the car, even though that car is no longer that car.... Who said anything about imposing their will? You want to present asinine logic that means a 250 GTO is still a 250 GTO because the car is legally recognized as such even if it becomes highly altered from Ferrari's vision. I've got a couple MR2s to sell you on as long as you ignore the Lamborghini looks....
Yep, that's the way it is, not my logic but fact, as I said I don't make the rules, but those are the rules. What has your MR2 story got to do with the subject? if its an MR2 chassis then its an MR2, you are simply rambling now. Rant all you like, but it changes nothing, It must really eat up people like yourself when there is zip you can do about it.
