BMW 7 E38 - good idea? | Page 4 | FerrariChat

BMW 7 E38 - good idea?

Discussion in 'Other German' started by Far Out, May 10, 2014.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    11,031
    Texass
    Bob - interesting. My E39 threw a TCC code that supposedly was a dead solenoid buried somewhere on the top of the trans. I never really noticed it not locking up on the highway though.
    So you're sure the fluid change is related to the leak? What did the old fluid look like?

    I asked the shop flushing my minivan's fluid to save some for me to check out, I'm curious what it looks/feels like.
    Just dropping the pan supposedly gets <50% of the total fluid out, there's still a bunch in the TC, valves/passeges etc.

    Please do keep up posted on that 6-sp swap :)

    Hey Gregg we're doing great thanks!
    I believe that the E38 (and E39) transmissions are so-called "sealed" units i.e. no fluid change is recommended by BMW. But pretty much everyone says this is BS; after some amount of time/wear the fluid loses it's original properties.
    I did buy a kit to replace the rear diff fluid, just haven't been motivated enough to crawl underneath and do it....
    cheers
    Kurt
     
  2. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,367
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    It was pretty brown and there was a lot of particulate in the filter. I think recommendation is to not do a full flush as it can cause the clutches to slip more as some of the material in the fluid helps them grab. It kind of 'shocks' the transmission so to speak. Leak started not long after the fluid change, but as the car had 155k miles on it at the time (over 170k now), it could have been coincidence...
     
  3. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Oct 22, 2007
    22,232
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Gregg
    I received a $189 quote today, parts and labor included and before my 10% discount, for new trans filter and fluid, not bad and they use factory parts and fluids. I want to change the diff fluid also but $89 seems a tad steep for the easiest service.

    Damn I need a lift! LOL
     
  4. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    11,031
    Texass
    Bob if the fluid was only "pretty brown" at 155k, and it was the original fluid, that's not bad!
    I had the shop that flushed the trans on my 53k T&C today save some of the fluid for me to inspect and it was almost black. Not especially viscous but a definite burnt aroma.

    $189 is a deal! Chrysler dealer quoted me $290, and the independent that did it (hooked up to the oil cooler lines and let the trans pump do the work while they shifted the gearbox) charged $199. No filter change (which was a bit of a surprise when they told me this when I dropped off the car), which would have required dropping the pan. I was already there though and figured I'll get it changed at 100k if I still own the van.

    $89 for the diff doesn't sound too bad either. I think the gear oil I bought was $30 alone, and it's a fairly messy job.

    Changing oil is where I save the moneys. Topsider vacuum tank to suck the old oil out of the dipstick then ~$30 in Mobil 1 and a $7 filter, all from the top. Most places charge >$100 for a BMW w/ synthetic.
     
  5. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Oct 22, 2007
    22,232
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Gregg
    I will return once again to self maintenance but only on my next "project" and not my DD's. My last oil/filter change on the BMW, using Mobil 1 full synthetic, was only $78!! The shop who gave me the $189 quote for the trans service also changed my front rotors/pads and brake fluid for $77! (have invoices for proof)

    I miss my MR2's and when I find the right one the BMW will see less use.
     
  6. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    My name is Kurt also :) I got confused while I was reading that post.

    To my knowledge the chains have not been done yet. Just the tensioners, belts, thermostat, etc. From what I've read in the past, the chains don't go bad, and if looking at a car that has bad ones, it is a sign of serious neglect. Engine Major is every 60k miles, last one was at 176k. The suspension is sorted as well, all konis. The only thing left is the garbage plastic radiator, which I will be swapping with the aluminum one whenever it decides to start leaking. I did the tranny fluid at 176k when I bought the car along with the suspension work. 25k later, all good. The only thing the car does is make a bit of a faint whir when at idle speeds (below 2200 rpm) and startup. My mechanic said it is most likely the idler pulley. But it isn't bad enough to warrant ripping a bunch of stuff apart to eliminate a noise. I'll change it during the next major.

    https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-14317-e38-740iil-maintenance-service-package/
     
  7. JLL

    JLL Rookie

    Nov 21, 2005
    24
    Norcal
    Full Name:
    Lane
    I've changed my E38 trans fluid 3 times now I have about 140k miles on the car. First time at about 90k with filter and about a year later no filter, then again with filter. I followed the recommendation from this post. Servicing The BMW e38 Automatic Transmission
    The HP 24 trans is a bit undersized and is prone to failure was my take. Maybe thats not true in your case...If your system is like mine their will be grey mung about 1/4 deep in the pan particularly around the magnets. Fluid was a lite brown not red. The pan was surprisingly cruddy at the next year's change but not as bad.
    I did same on the E46 (6 cyl) at about 90k however the fluid was very clean with little sludge in the pan- so apparently dependent on trans design, temp and horsepower. I have not done that vehicle again and no plans to do so!
    It is a challenging job...getting the side plug back in next to the exhaust pipe on the E38 (burned my arm once :( ) while fluid is running out to correct temp with vehicle running.
    I believe the Esso LT 71141 fluid was $16/pint at BMW from their bulk tank or currently $39/l on Amazon..so fluid will run almost $200.

    Anyway yes I think you should do it...and you live far enough away from me I figure I won't have to help :).

    Lane
     
  8. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    11,031
    Texass
    hey Kurt thanks for the link :)

    trans and diff fluid change every 30k!? Holy crap I doubt the diff fluid or maybe even the trans has ever been changed in mine :/

    I was referring to the timing change guides, not the chains itself. The guides are some kind of plastic and from what I've read tend to break up ~150k give or take, with baaaad results (akin to a V8 Ferrari breaking a timing belt) when the chain jumps a couple cam teeth.
    Bob posted some pics of replacing his earlier in the thread. Not a quick, cheap or especially easy job but at least a good opportunity to also replace the rad, PS & oil hoses, water pump, basically anything around the front of the motor...

    RE the whirring sound - have you checked the fan clutch? At cold idle you should be able to stop the fan with a paper towel roll. If it's bad the fan will be be spinning at engine speed all the time, and be noticeably noisy at idle.
    I replaced mine (and the fan) preemptively - a broken fan blade can cause serious damage if the shrapnel gets flung around at high rpm. Only ~$125 for both parts.

    If it is a belt tensioner pulley bearing that's a pretty easy and inexpensive fix. The bearing on mine was a little graunchy so did that as well.
     
  9. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    11,031
    Texass
    Lane - I missed your post, thanks for the input.
    Yeah it does sound like a fairly involved process, and crawling under a running car always makes me nervous.

    When you changed your fluid did you measure the trans temperature in any way, and adjust the amount of fluid?

    In the link you give it's interesting they say "We have heard far too many painful cries of E38 owner after owner who have had transmission failure by 70,000 - 80,000 mile"

    Granted I haven't been "into" E38s for that long but hadn't read much if anything about trans trouble at that low mileage.

    Think I'll tackle the diff fluid change first, and hopefully work up courage to then do the trans...
     
  10. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,367
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    The guide failure is due to the cars overheating - which they all tend to have done at least once by the time they get to 150k miles due to their cooling system component lifetime. What I've done with my most recent car is to fill with straight coolant instead of a 50/50 mix. This provides slightly reduced cooling ability (which isn't a problem so far, even in 100+dF heat) but puts very little stress on the cooling system due to lack of pressurization - the coolant doesn't boil. What this does is both prevent failures due to way less pressurization and prevent the catastrophic cooling system failures you get with regular coolant. If you get a leak, you just get a low coolant warning without it boiling, so you can get it home or park it safely without it losing all it's coolant and overheating.

    I know the overheating can kill the guides as the last car I did them on, they went 2 days after a cooling system failure. The car had barely overheated but upon pulling the pieces out, some were slightly melted and others broke in my hands due to being brittle from the high heat.

    My current car has the stock guides at 170k, we'll see how long they go for. If you don't want to have to do the guides, keep your cooling system in tip top shape and immediately park the car if you get a low coolant warning until you can fix the leak. A lot of owners just top up and keep driving, but eventually it will result in a cooling system failure and if you let the engine get too hot, it will kill the guides.
     
  11. JLL

    JLL Rookie

    Nov 21, 2005
    24
    Norcal
    Full Name:
    Lane
    Yea..I think we were posting at same time...

    The fluid level is dependent on temperature. You fill with a pump cold until it begins to spill out of side fill plug..like a Muncie or your differential. After starting cold no fluid escapes- plug is out. As the trans starts to heat up at idle a trickle begins to flow out. As things heat up the stream becomes fairly heavy. I used a small meat thermometer once or twice & have since used a hand held optical pyrometer. It has a laser pointer you can aim at the stream...Pyrometer, Pyrometers ? Raytek
    Thermometer worked ok too. Best to begin with plug re-install at the low end of the temp range as temps begin to climb fairly quickly....Getting the plug back in with oil running everywhere is the hard part as fluid is running out, car running, exhaust hot as you fumble for the plug (with latex gloves on)!
    I've done it on jackstands/blocks and the last time raised up on my 4 post storage lift.
     
  12. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

  13. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    2,028
    Barrington, Ill. USA
    Full Name:
    Ross
    Jack up the car level if you can't use a lift. I use a length of 1/2" clear vinyl hose that fits snugly into the fill hole run up into the engine compartment with a funnel at the other end.
    A warm trans is all you need, don't over think it. You'll be able to see when it's full. A bit always spills when you pull the hose out but that's okay as to the bottom of the fill hole is what's needed.
    Don't substitute incorrect fluids or you'll be paying a semester's tuition for some trans builder's kid.
     
  14. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    11,031
    Texass
    Well the transmission fluid service may have to wait.
    Yesterday (soon after I ran over some particularly bumpy reflectors dividing the lanes of a highway, coincidence maybe?) the dashboard of my '01 740 lit up like a christmas tree.
    Traction control triangle, ABS light, "Brake" light (in yellow), and "Service Engine Soon" light are all on.

    Once or twice over the last 2 months the Traction Control and ABS lights have come on, but upon re-start they've gone dark. I'm not very concerned about losing ABS as long as the brakes still work, so didn't pay it too much attention.

    But now they all stay on even after a few restarts.
    OBD reader just spits out the "ABS control module failure" code.

    I know that the yellow "Brake" warning light could indicate a failure of the emergency brake booster (which shouldn't affect normal brake usage, only the extra power assist in cases of sudden, full brake application). And I know I'm getting close to 3000 miles since the last oil change, so maybe that's what the "Service Engine Soon" light is trying to tell me?

    Any ideas/suggestions? I don't particularly want to get the ABS booster rebuilt right now, if that's what the problem is. Wouldn't a bad wheel speed sensor (perhaps damaged by the sudden jolting from the reflectors I ran over) show up as an OBD code, or only through the round BMW-plug under the hood?

    I am overdue to flush the brake fluid. Could dirty fluid damage the ABS module and/or emergency brake booster?

    Just seems strange that I got all those lights at the same time, right after the wheels got shaken about pretty harshly.

    She still runs like a champ. Replacing the timing chain tensioner definitely quieted down the clatter on cold start-up.

    thanks for any input!
    Kurt
     
  15. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2007
    9,768
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Florian
    I totally forgot about this thread! :eek I ended up buying a perfectly well serviced first-owner E39 520i Touring with a fresh TÜV inspection (rigorous German technical service, you have to pass their test every 2 years) in January 2015.
    It was spotless, looked great, was very well taken care of, and it was the biggest automotive nightmare you can possibly imagine.

    After two months, everything started to fall apart. The engine began drinking oil like crazy (valve shaft gaskets), the brake electronics went south, the radiator began to leak, the alternator left my girlfriend stranded in the middle of nowhere on a icy November night... I could go on for hours.
    I sold it in December to a shady used car dealer who gave me considerably more than that piece of junk was possibly worth, and I still expect to find my apartment wasted one day when he takes revenge for what he bought after a only short look :eek:
     
  16. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,367
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    How old is your battery? A weak battery causes these cars to go completely nuts. Try doing a hard reset (unplug battery for 10 minutes and then touch the pos and neg battery cables together to completely reset everything) and see what happens.
     
  17. Julia

    Julia F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2014
    6,336
    Houston
    Well, at least it wasn't an E38, which means the rest of us pie-in-the-sky dreamers who haven't bought one yet can say, "Yeah, but THAT was an E39!" :)
     
  18. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    11,031
    Texass
    oh man... sorry to hear that, but yeah, these cars are getting old and there are lots of things that can go wrong.
    BTW I'm putting my '99 E39 528 on the market soon :)
    I've put a LOT of new parts on it over my 10 years of ownership, quite a few in the last 20-30k miles and am hoping I can get $3000 for her, but will really try to dissuade anyone from buying it as their only car.

    I replaced the battery and alternator less than 2000 miles ago, so don't think it's that but the hard reset thing is worth a try anyway.

    Planning on flushing the brake fluid Saturday, and doing an oil change in the next few weeks. Not that new oil will do anything about the idiot lights, but got a Blackstone test kit I'll send in to analyse the oil for $28 to see what they say about how my 130k mile engine is tearing itself apart.
     
  19. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    11,031
    Texass
    #94 Nurburgringer, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Finally broke down a few weeks ago and bought a fancy Peake BMW scan tool, which reported a few error codes:
    - speed sensor (assume it means one of the ABS wheel sensors, but it didn't say which one)
    - aux fan failure (it seems to be working fine)
    - cyl 6 misfire
    - random misfire

    Reset the codes and none of the lights have come back on after ~200miles, but she has been running a bit rough starting ~1 week ago. Tonight the new Bosch coil was delivered from OEMBimmerparts so replaced the crap Bremi on cyl 6 and she runs smooth as silk again. We'll see how long the other 7 Bremis last...

    Weird that the ABS and traction control work great again, maybe it likes the new fluid I put in 2 weeks ago?

    Anyway the Peake tool isn't cheap at $180, but something I should have bought for my E39 10 years ago.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. JLL

    JLL Rookie

    Nov 21, 2005
    24
    Norcal
    Full Name:
    Lane
    Thats good news!

    I've flushed my E46 numerous times during brake changes and still have intermittent alarm...assume its the ABS unit...replaced the brake stop light switch as a tip from local mechanic- didn't work..
    I've had speed sensor report on my Peake for cam sensors...I believe they say intake or exh though.

    From what I've read rear sensors do double duty- one rear wheel sensor drives speedo and other drives cruise control- if those functions exist then could be front sensors...I've tried to read them with multimeter with no success....
     
  21. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    11,031
    Texass
    #96 Nurburgringer, Oct 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sure the engines and suspension are nice but you can really see the engineering that goes into BMWs by digging into the door.
    Heard a crack last week putting the window up, which usually means broken pulley in the power window system.
    Ordered a $100 replacement regulator (minus the motor) from oembimmerparts and put it in the this morning.
    So much stuff in the door, and it fits together like a puzzle.
    Taking my time spent about 2 hours total, works like new again.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. Gran Drewismo

    Gran Drewismo F1 Rookie

    Jan 24, 2005
    3,778
    Idaho
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Nicely done man.

    Related question, did you happen to notice how difficult it would be to replace the ash tray in the door? Mine won't close.

    It's never been used so it's more of aesthetic fix.
     
  23. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    11,031
    Texass
    #98 Nurburgringer, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    hey Drew - sorry I missed your question. I didn't take a close look at the ash tray when it was apart. You could probably find a working one for cheap on Ebay, or just hot-glue it closed and be done with it :p

    My 7er is still running strong. Crossed 134k miles, which took some time as my commute is <20 miles day but that may change for the worse soon...
    I did have to replace the windshield washer pump last month. Would have been a quick and cheap ($10 pump) job except the fender liner crumbled when I removed it so treated her to a new aftermarket liner for $80.
    Oil change is coming up but other than that nothing has fallen off, failed to work started wobbling around.

    Was browsing Ebay and saw this blue beauty with only 38k miles for a quite reasonable $15k:
    2001 BMW 7-Series | eBay

    Over on Bimmerforum a guy just took possession of a monster E38: S62 M5 engine, trans rear end and instruments, ESS supercharger (for ~450whp), modern touch-screen nav/stereo and custom dyed caramel interior (HUGE amount of work).

    I'm not a big fan of the wheels (can't beat M-Pars, or at least another nice wheel with a decent lip IMO) and white is pretty boring but it must be a fun ride.

    Supposedly he's got "well under $50k" into it including the low-mileage base car, after selling the stock motor and trans, and plans to keep it forever:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,344
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    That is shweeet machine right there. Wow!
     
  25. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,344
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    You will most likely need a new module. They fail all the time. Obviously go through the steps to confirm, but that's the most likely cause. I have replaced perhaps hundreds of the things.
     

Share This Page