2012 California vs. New GranTurismo MC | Page 2 | FerrariChat

2012 California vs. New GranTurismo MC

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by ggonzaga, Jul 24, 2015.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. ggonzaga

    ggonzaga Rookie

    Jul 24, 2015
    16
    Guys, just got info from my salesperson. One year extended warranty would be 6300 plus some inspection it needs (didn't quite get it).

    Numbers seem like a bargain to me, but I'm starting to feel like the GT is a better fit for me. The car has more backseat space, and I don't need to worry about extended warranty, etc. The salesman also told me the leasing conditions for the California would be not as favorable to me, and I'd be paying more money than I would for the Maserati despite the same price (roughly).

    If you guys are interested, here are the links to the cars:
    2012 Ferrari California - Used 2012 FERRARI CALIFORNIA For Sale | Fort Lauderdale FL

    2015 Maserati Granturismo - 2015 New Maserati GranTurismo Coupe at The Collection Serving Coral Gables, FL, IID 13392463

    I do have an eye on a cheaper GT:
    2015 New Maserati GranTurismo 2dr Coupe Sport at The Collection Serving Coral Gables, FL, IID 13389811

    Did not find another California for less, only more (~180k).
    I did though see a VERY peculiar listing for a bargain of a price! A Ferrari FF in a grey color with 12k miles, 2012 model. CarFAX is fine, only one owner. All for 189,000.

    That's pretty much it for now guys, what do you think?
     
  2. MARMIST

    MARMIST Formula 3

    Jul 1, 2014
    1,338
    I simply CANNOT LIVE with the interior of the Maserati. It's disgusting, its like they WANTED to make u not like it.

    The depreaciation will be furious on the Maserati, know it. It's an almost new one, unlike the Ferrari.

    Also, if the salesman doesnt give u a price u like, WALK AWAY. Give him your number, tell him you will be thinking about it but that the stakes are too high atm.

    Over 6k a year is a little bit expensive too, should be around 4/5 but that's not the problem. We dont know if u need that backspace.
     
  3. ggonzaga

    ggonzaga Rookie

    Jul 24, 2015
    16
    The Maserati's interior is fine, I'd say. Seen much worse! I'm afraid that this Ferrari will be gone quick if I don't act on it. I was looking at spending 135-145k in the car, specially when I need to pay 6 grand for warranty. I really want the backspace, that's why I'm leaning to the GT. But the fact I'm walking away from a gorgeous Ferrari is unbearable.
     
  4. vjd3

    vjd3 F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2005
    2,565
    Massachusetts
    Full Name:
    Vic
    If you buy the Ferrari, you won't wonder why you didn't just buy the Maserati everytime you see a Maserati ; )
     
  5. MARMIST

    MARMIST Formula 3

    Jul 1, 2014
    1,338
    AND u will see the maserati guy asking himself that question watchign ur car.
     
  6. photonut

    photonut F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 16, 2007
    4,080
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Joel
    I would buy a USED cali.
    my projected depreciation is based on a used cali.
     
  7. gretel1011

    gretel1011 Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2015
    958
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom F
    No comparison. The California. Masers, like Aston Martins, give depreciation new meaning.
     
  8. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,537
    Vegas baby
    If you need a true GT with a large back seat, go with the Maser.

    But I think the GT is going to be replaced in a year or so. Get a used one that has a lot of the depreciation off it already.

    The CA will be faster, sportier and hold value better. But it's still pretty small inside.

    The new "It" car will be the new Maserati Alfieri. It's just gorgeous and coming next year for about 120-150. 2 + 2 coupe.
     
  9. MARMIST

    MARMIST Formula 3

    Jul 1, 2014
    1,338
    The Alfieri wont hit the market before 2017, as far as I know. And I've heard LATE 2017.
     
  10. Lime1

    Lime1 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2014
    336
    Out of those 3 cars the California wins hands down for me.
     
  11. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2012
    2,419
    switzerland
    Full Name:
    daniel
    Go with the Maserati Granturismo Sport (or MC): stronger engine with a for a GT-car nicer torque curve (4.7 vs. 4.3 liter, ... and let us be honest, in the real world a 2012' Cali is definitely NOT faster than the Masi), stiffer bodywork, better sound and more space. Finally the Maserati looks more beautiful; the proportions are much better ballanced and the appearance is more aggressive.

    A further advantage; it's not a Ferrari. You will not get any attention because of the Ferrari logo, you will get attention because of the beauty of the car.

    Have a look on the gearbox, I strongly recommend the ZF-gearbox.

    Now I guess its better for me to leave the California section... ;)
     
  12. photonut

    photonut F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 16, 2007
    4,080
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Joel
    if you plan on leasing the vehicle, this changes everything.
    i had assumed you were going to pay cash.
    in general, i would not recommend leasing a used vehicle
     
  13. gretel1011

    gretel1011 Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2015
    958
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom F
    Indeed. You're a couple levels down. The Maser ain't a Ferrari. It's a cheaper, rapidly depreciating wanna be
     
  14. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #39 4th_gear, Jul 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK, I can appreciate your enthusiasm for your own car as far as personal taste preferences are concerned but let's keep a grip on reality. Here's a spec comparison between a 2013 Maser GT Sport and a 2009 Cali, both as compiled by Car And Driver.

    Regarding street-legal speeds, while the factory has gradually increased the engine capacity of the Maser over the years, it's still a mid-4-second car (Maserati says 4.6 secs for the 2015 model). Also notice the 3.8 sec time of the 2009 Cali is for 0-62, not 0-60 as tested for the Maser.

    At 0-30, the Cali is in the mid 1-second zone while the Maser is over 2 seconds.

    [size=+1].... 2013 Maserati GranTurismo Sport ............... 2009 California[/size]
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. MisterMaranello

    MisterMaranello F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2011
    3,237
    Europe
    From a subjective point of view, I find the GranTurismo (S + MC) more entertaining to drive on normal roads in normal traffic. It is a more GT oriented car - but arguably sounds better, and more playful outside the top end. Most recently I spent an entire day driving the GranCabrio (which based on the S), and that thing would wiggle its tail like a muscle car. Hilarious.

    As mentioned, the "back seats" in the Cali are for carrying your shopping bags. A GranTurismo can fit four people.
     
  16. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2012
    2,419
    switzerland
    Full Name:
    daniel
    Therefore I wrote "in the real world".

    I guess it is an open secret, the first Cali generation was never able to reach its paper values. Or do you really mean that this car with its 460hp and a curb wight of 1765 kg is as fast as a F430 with 490hp and a curb wight of 1450 kg? With such adverse physical values, also the dual-clutch transmission did not help. It is a fact that the California is a wonderful GT, but with respect to its performance definitely not more.

    With the Cali 30 it became a little bit better, but a real hammer with the power to weight ratio to undercut the 4.0 limit became first the Cali T with its monster turbo, its 3.6 seconds are credible.
     
  17. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,851
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    To be fair, the F430 isn't a sub 4 second car either. And I assume most drivers are like me and are careful engaging first. I don't know if later F430's were better, but my '06 was pretty sloppy, not much different than the early 612, and miles from the 599 F1-S. Bottom line is that the driving experience in the early Cali or Cali 30 might have you off the line from stoplight to stoplight just as fast as an F430 if for no other reason than by virtue of the fact you don't have to baby 1st.

    I haven't read the whole thread, but if I could weigh in, I've had a couple of Maser GT's as well and the build quality is such a disappointment I'm going 650i next. Had it. Dropped the GT C sport back off for consignment with a chronic CEL, broken seat back lever and jammed top, all of which are apparently "normal". Fixed the top while I was standing there, level is $20, and they'll figure out the CEL, but seriously for the money, Maser's are crap. On the hunt now for a 650i xDrive convertible in my colors.
     
  18. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #43 4th_gear, Jul 31, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
    Erm... have you not noticed the Cali's factory-claimed acceleration times have been confirmed or exceeded by every car magazine/professional test?

    These tests were done by the same people who tested the Maser. Ferrari and Maserati are(were) owned by the same company so they have no reason to fake their relative performance numbers. Are you contesting all their test results? I don't see how you can claim the DCT does not help acceleration. DCT and PDK are used because they shift much faster and result in faster 0-60 times for Fcars and Pcars. Maybe you should speak to Porsche about this. :D

    But seriously, the Cali is able to attain its claimed sub-4-second 0-62 mph time mainly because of its use of a single-plane engine/crankshaft, the DCT, CCM brakes, selection of ratios/gearing and better 47/53 weight distribution. The Maser has a cross-plane engine, uses a slower less efficient ZF auto transmission and has heavier iron brakes (heavier unsprung mass). Cross-plane engines have superior low-end torque but they don't accelerate as fast. Engine revs and engine acceleration times are completely different metrics that are highly dependent on the layout of the engine and crankshaft... two different engines can take vastly different amount of time to reach 7200 rpm (max for the Maser engine). That's why trucks use cross-plane engines and sports car applications favour flat-plane engines. It's not just sound. The Maser's 49/51 weight distribution also gives it less traction than the Cali, added weight bias over the drive wheels provide superior power transfer.

    I'm really surprised you didn't know any of these tricks used on Fcars. You own a couple of Fcars, don't you? Where have you been? :)
     
  19. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Have you also considered the Carrera 4 Cab? IMO unless you really need slightly roomier backseats you might find it more fun, faster and less porky. Fit and finish is at least as good if not better than the Bimmer.
     
  20. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2012
    2,419
    switzerland
    Full Name:
    daniel
    oh I think you'd be surprised what I know about the F136 engine family, all this technology stuff, what I know about this cars, definitely nothing new what you are writing down here. Sorry, but that’s old hat.

    Please respect my statement "in the real world". In this world the first generation Cali is definitely not a paragon of compelling performance. I really appreciate your nice-intentioned technical explanations, but that does not change my conviction based on my own experiences (I emphasize the term "experience"). I hope you can deal with it. ;)
     
  21. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,851
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    You know, I love Cayennes, but I'm not enamored with tradional porsche sports cars. And yes, I want larger with a larger back seat. The granturismo c sport was pretty perfect save the low quality.
     
  22. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #47 4th_gear, Jul 31, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
    OK then, you might want to share your "real world" experiences with us instead of just making vague references. Talk is cheap. You need to back up what you say with some credible information that's preferably objective rather than subjective.

    I'm sure your experience also tells you Ferrari has a predictable way of managing the relative performance levels of their newer cars over their older cars. I hope you can see how this relates the California's performance with respect to that of the F430. Their performance levels are purposely managed... not because they cannot (be made to) perform any faster. So if you view the factory's claims on the F430's performance a certain way, you should do likewise with the California. If you know what I mean. None of the professional car reviewers have a problem with the factory's claim on the Cali's performance numbers. Are you more credible than all of the pro reports combined?

    Since you know a lot about engines, I'm surprised you overlooked the nothing-new points I made. I agree they are no longer new techniques but those are many of the ways the factory go about making their newer cars faster and those techniques definitely weren't (and still aren't) exploited on the Maser GT when compared with the Cali.

    I think the OP needs to drive these cars to make a proper personal choice. I did that when I shopped a new Maser GT and felt there was no comparison. My test drives justified to me why prices for these 2 vehicles, as new cars, would differ by so much.
     
  23. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    I think the Carrera 4 with its 4WD, helps to distance itself from older 911s. I did like the Maser GT's backseats but with roof up, well... I looked over at the Cali and that settled it. I figured prospective passengers would put up with a shorter drive.
     
  24. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2012
    2,419
    switzerland
    Full Name:
    daniel
    Ok, let's summarize my statements regarding the thread topic "2012 California vs. New GranTurismo MC":
    - "stronger engine with a for a GT-car nicer torque curve" - are you questioning this statement?
    - "stiffer bodywork" (hard top convertible vs. coupe) - are you questioning this statement?
    - "better sound" - I hope it is allowed to have this opinion
    - "more space" - are you questioning this statement?
    - "the Maserati looks more beautiful; the proportions are much better ballanced and the appearance is more aggressive" - the same like above, I hope it is allowed the have this opinion.

    Now let's face the bone of contention:
    - "... and let us be honest, in the real world a 2012' Cali is definitely NOT faster than the Masi" - Do you really want to say the Cali is noticeably faster compared with an actual Maserati MC in daily traffic or on a track day event? So much faster that it becomes to a reason to buy? Really?
    Remember, the daily operation is not just about accelerating from 0-100km/h. My subjective driving experience; the California is a little bit sharper at higher engine speeds, the Maserati MC is more pleasant at deeper and medium engine speeds. IMO a balanced story and therefore my statement "in the real world a 2012' Cali is definitely NOT faster...".
    The facts why it is at the end "a balanced story": We are talking about the F136 IB engine with 4,297 cc and 460 hp (485Nm at 5000 rpm) in the Cali vs the F136 YK engine with 4,691 cc and 460 hp (520 Nm at 4750 rpm) in the Masi.

    Regarding my statement "I guess it is an open secret, the first Cali generation was never able to reach its paper values" I can live with the accusation of vague references.
    However, I stay with this statement. The first generation Cali was not a glorious chapter concerning its effective performance capabilities; too heavy and an unbalanced chassis setup. The Cali 30 with its HS Handling Speciale package was an important step forward (additional 30hp, additional 20Nm, 30kg less weight and interestingly enough, only 0.1 seconds faster from 0-100 km/h). Based on my subjective driving experience a Cali 30 is much faster than a "normal" Cali...
     
  25. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,851
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I agree the awd is attractive, but BMW has xdrive. And if 0-60times is to be believed, the awd shaves a couple tenths.
     

Share This Page