I'm just guessing, but based on the terms of the June 2014 Bonhams auction, Copley-Wexner as the auction winners were required to take possession of the goods at Bonhams' Goodwood storage. Therefore my guess is that Copley-Wexner have had physical custody and control since June 2014. Also, the court papers -- posted here and on the "other site" -- indicate that Copley-Wexner contend that they cannot legally move the car to Wexner's residence in Ohio, USA. It seems unlikely they would move it to any other country. Therefore, my best guess is the car is in storage somewhere in England.
I tell you something interesting, I was scrolling through some auction data on Bonhams site and noticed that for the Goodwood auction they listed the 275GTB as the top selling lot. Further in shades of Sony with "THE INTERVIEW" references to the sale of #0384AM have been removed and the only statement they make is, well look for yourself. Bonhams : Lot withdrawn: please contact Bonhams for more information about this lot Hilarious.
appear to be changing history... can someone tell them that they need to change all the news and media outlets as well... maybe they hit upon a way to unring a bell... or are they using the "Prof Gruber technique " to communicate with all the stupid masses...
Unless the 1989 sentencing is a complete fabrication, then exactly two people have been convicted of a crime pertaining to #0384. I've never seen or read the 1989 transcripts and other court documents from Atlanta, so in the interests of hearing your side of the story in this thread, what can you tell us about your involvement with #0384? I'm not interested in hearing the legal points all over again. What I'm interested in hearing, if you're willing to provide it, is some context about what happened in 1989 from the person who was sold this car by the two men ultimately convicted of stealing it. You may decide to say absolutely nothing here about your thoughts at the time, which is of course your prerogative. You may also feel that there is nothing to gain here by doing so. Nevertheless, it should make for very interesting reading if you're willing to tell the story from your POV.
Timmmmmmy - from Guy. Sorry, perhaps not 100% clear. Although I did say "from the person who was sold this car by the two men ultimately convicted of stealing it" somewhere in there!
I do not have the same objectives that you may believe I have. I have read these many posts in disbelief. The real story of the Ferrari #0384 is and could be a very magical story but not from what I read here. Now this sad Tale of Woe is taking on the appearance of a practice sheet from the shooting range. The only difference is, a shooters practice sheet has fewer holes in it. You speak of thieves, yet you dont discuss the fact that the city CONDEMNED the Kleve junk to the crusher/landfill. The disposal of the junks was ordered by the Ohio courts. A statement you have recently made is: the frame is the car. Have you any idea what happens to unprotected metal abandoned in the elements for 20+ years? Years of neglect and subjected to natures elements such as: snow, rain, sleet, moisture, sunlight, and heat. This is the basis of an abandoned item and furthermore, it was claimed by Karl Kleve himself that he had been repaid by the US Government 45,000 dollars for the remains. That, my friend, was a world record price paid for an abandoned, junked out, donor frame. Sorry, for being so blunt, and please dont take any of this personally. I have posted this information so that you will no longer remain under the Fantasy Spell of misinformation. Perhaps you can help me with this next question? Question: If the Ferrari 375 Plus was stolen and listed as stolen as you and others claim, then how is it that the so called original engine that Kleve removed from the Ferrari #0384 ( the FBI knew of) was NOT considered stolen and NOT subject to seizure by the FBI? We know the vin plate was secured by S.A. Carroll of the Los Angeles FBI (Not Ohio as previously reported by Ocean Joe and not January 1989 but March 1989) We know the gas tank was seized in Ohio from the person who had possession of it. It remains; there are just way too many holes in this Tale of Woe. Now to address your latest stated fact or should I say factoid? The 2 Bugatti engines were a TYPE 46 and a TYPE 41 with one engine still in the Harrahs shipping crate. The Harrahs information was stenciled on the side of the crate as it sat on the ground identified by a Kruse auction lot number. If it wasnt for the Australians who bought the bulk of the Kleve junk in 2005, the heirs would have to pay someone to, SCRAP THE CRAP. I will attach the sales brochure for you to get acquainted with the FACTS. The difference between the Type 41 and Type 46 Bugatti engines is 1 is a 5.3 liter and the other is a 12.8 liter.( And it was not from a Royale) N.O.S. means New Old Stock and the Bugatti engines were old used engines. The remaining few parts scabbed from the carcass of the Ferrari Hulk #0384 were being offered for sale as stated in the attached brochure. (Note: Ferrari 375 parts listed at bottom of the list) The Kruse estimate on those Ferrari parts was less than 10,000 USD so how are they now worth millions? And why did Kleve not build the Ferrari #0384 back to its original grandeur with the help of the Ferrari community or Ferrari Automobili itself? Hint: Because it was Karl Kleve himself that dismantled, parted out, and abandoned the 1954 Ferrari 375 plus #0384. It wasnt until he found out he destroyed one of the most Aggressive Asphalt Fighters ever constructed by the world famous automotive manufacturer named Ferrari. Then and only then did he want it back, or did he? Perhaps you should make that decision when all of the facts, rumors, and opinions are in. Note: I was registered with Kruse to buy the 375 parts at the Kruse auction in Ohio (2005) and when Kristy Kleve Lawson was told I was there by the auctioneer, she no longer offered the Ferrari parts for sale. Mrs. Kristy Kleve Lawson and I had a conversation together; we have met and talked before this as well, perhaps I will post the details of that conversation/meeting at some later date. In conclusion, I enjoy your posts and you add a lot to the discussion, I am only helping state facts about the actual events as they occured that you may or may not know. The statements made here are solely for the digestion of some of the facts pertaining to The 1954 Ferrari 375 Plus #0384 and for that purpose only. All who read these posts can make up their own minds pertaining to what or who they want to believe. P.S. There is someone on F-chat who has the closest synopsis to actual events. Go to page #1 Post # 9 authored by Bertocchi on 8/4/2006.Read it carefully because this individual is closest to hitting the mark. Image Unavailable, Please Login
To O J, I am NOW totally confused by your statements. Please clarify what your statement means? The witnesses RESHAPED their testimony. Are you implying that the witnesses in the Atlanta Federal courtroom lied or committed perjury during that proceeding? Please do tell? Who, What, When, and explain Why? Whose witnesses? The prosecutions witnesses or the defendants witnesses? Or, are you stating such things for dramatic effect? Your question about the prosecution not having the shipping information is a very big NO -NO since it is YOU that stated the FBI went to the shipper and inquired about the shipping of the Ferrari 375. All of the documents are a matter of record from the export from Atlanta thru the ocean shipping lines including the import into Belgium. You stated that the United States Government did not have any of these documents so then HOW DID YOU GET THESE DOCUMENTS AND POST THEM, SINCE YOU CLAIM THE FBI COULD NOT? Just so we are clear .. we are talking about the FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION ( FBI) with the full resources of the United States of America. Are you kidding me? Also, while you are at it, please tell us ALL about the lie you have referred to. Im sure there are curious minds that would like your version of the lie comment you made on several occasions. I have already addressed that statement! please give us the OJ version? Questions for OJ: 1) Please explain to us all how one can ship an International Automotive shipment with a listed VIN number without a title/registration that is required by law. 2) Please tell us how someone can import a vehicle into Europe without the identity of that motor vehicle and it possibly being listed as stolen? 3) Please tell us all how a Ferrari 375 Plus properly identified as Chassis number #0384, (that YOU claim was STOLEN at that time), slipped thru U.S.Customs, the Police, the FBI, the GBI, the DMV, the Ohio police, the BMV, Interpol, Belgium Customs, and Belgium police. Within a 3 month (1/4th year) time frame . Oh, Im sorry someone said Great Haste do you remember who made that statement? 4) Will you (Ocean Joe) finally produce the proof of a STOLEN FERRARI 375 PLUS chassis number #0384 by posting the 1989 or earlier title in the claimed owners name (Karl Kleve)? Please INCLUDE a valid police report (1989) listing the VIN and title number for the Alleged Stolen Ferrari in the same time frame. (1988-1997) 5) Please tell us why Karl Kleve did not go to Belgium and pick up his claimed Ferrari? 6) Tell us why the FBI did not have the vehicle seized in Belgium? 7) Tell us why the Ferrari #0384 was NOT impounded in Belgium and left in the care of M. Kruch. 8) Tell us why the Belgium authorities confirmed to the FBI the 4500 invoice was accepted in Belgium. . P.S. Please explain why Karl Kleve was applying for a title in 1989 according to the posted letter. Then please explain why that title was not issued being denied by the Ohio BMV. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Guy, You are deceiving others. Stop. Post the evidence you have that Kleve received any money. I am calling you out, again. The clerk of court complained that Kleve refused to cash the $200ish per month checks they sent him, and they stopped sending them. Kleve knew NOT to accept money so as to keep his ownership claim intact. So, post your evidence. I bet you have none - Zero, Zip, Nada. Also, Kruse was instructed NOT to sell or to offer for sale the Ferrari parts. In fact, Kruse gave Kristi the name of his Belgium attorney because Kristi intended to recover the stolen Ferrari. You will see the later Kruse ads and Kruse mailers that went out weeks and months before the auction DO NOT INCLUDE the Ferrari parts. Kruse corrected that listing mistake long before you showed up at the auction. Sorry to burst your delusional bubble. Some wealthy people tried to buy Kleve's Ferrari in 1988 and Kleve refused to sell it. Post the evidence that you have to show that Kleve abandoned it. I am calling you out, again. You mention you have objectives. Why don't you post your objectives for all to see. There is a reason you are posting here and now. I wonder why. Here are some "yes" or "no" questions for you to answer . . . truthfully. Did Bonhams reach an agreement with you in connection with this Ferrari? Did Bonhams pay you money recently in connection with this Ferrari? Did anyone reach an agreement with you in connection with this Ferrari? Did anyone pay you money recently in connection with this Ferrari? If you were paid, was it a lump sum, or was it in installments? Are you being compensated in any way to post as you now post? Me thinks thou art a hatchling, in league with other hatchlings. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
YOU post the exhibits used at trial and YOU will see they did not have ALL of the shipping docs. You and I know that there were two sets in the shipper's files, and you took both sets. All the shipper had left was the final outgoing Bill of Lading - no prior versions, telephone notes, etc. Those missing file documents were an issue at trial, and they were MISSING. Swaters had them. Swaters stonewalled the FBI for years, so the FBI never got them. The FBI had no jurisdiction nor power in Belgium. The US Embassy tried to help, and when they appeared at Swaters place, Swaters claimed he had 0394AM not 0384AM. Does that sound honest to you? Answer: One can simply do as either you or Michel Kruch did, by making the FALSE DECLARATION TO A UNITED STATES AGENCY by telling the shipper/exporter that it is "car parts" when in fact it is known to be the goods as described in the Feb. 22, 1989 Bill Of Sale issued by you a few days earlier, i.e. "one 1954 Ferrari 375 Plus VIN 0384AM" See answer above. See answer above. I am not gonna play your dishonest game. You and I know the states purge their title files after 8 or 9 or 10 years, so when you lose your copy and apply for a Duplicate, they have no record to use and cannot accomodate you. That is why Kleve wrote to the Ohio BMV and ultimately had to get a court order since the Ohio BMV records had been purged. Fortunately, titles are not the only way to prove ownership, as I am sure you know all too well -- heck, some states give out registrations and tags to people known to be involved with stolen cars. Maybe you can give this Ferrari Chat community a real time example from personal experience. I will do you one better. I will post the FBI report that amended all NCIC database entries and also went to Interpol. The Feb. 24, 1989 date of this amendment means that the FBI knew the VIN info days earlier. As to your next questions, they are rhetoric. If you ask about facts, then my reply will be different. Your posted letter is from 1994, not 1989. If in fact Kleve made an Ohio affidavit in 1989 (which I have not seen) then it was merely to get a duplicate title issued. In fact, in 1994, the Ohio BMV did issue Kleve a title per the Court's order. FYI Kleve did write and apply to the State of Illinois in 1989 to see if Kimberly titled 0384AM as well, and if so, to get a duplicate. Illinois replied on June 6, 1989 that they could find no record of 0384AM being titled in Illinois, by Kimberly, again, likely due to the purge policy were it ever titled there. Swaters and Lancksweert knew Kleve was the longest owner of 0384AM per their March 26, 1990 letter, so why is that not good enough for you? (Ferrari Chat p.88 post 1751, again at p.125, post 2484) Lancksweert again acknowledged in 1999, and had it notarized, that Kleve was the owner of 0384AM. Is that not good enough for you? You should be realizing by now that to win a competing title claim, the rival claimant's evidence must overwhelm that of the owner. You are merely trying to undermine Kleve by attacking with technicalities. However, to prevail, you must show whom you acquired from, that they actually owned and could convey to you, prove consideration, demonstrate possession, etc. We all know you cannot. You know you cannot. The Ferrari Chat community are more astute than you think. So, why are you posting? Did Bonhams recruit you to try and undermine Kristi and myself? Goodbye Hatchling, Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Joe, I have constructed an earlier timeline from the Information on the Swaters website. Please amend where appropriate. It suggests that the letter from Swaters attorney was the prime motivation behind the decision to withdraw the parts from sale. Two questions come to mind. Was it Kruse that encouraged Lawson to challenge the 1999 Settlement and what steps did Lawson take to recover the car in the five years before Swaters took legal action. Timeline: 2nd September 1999. Settlement agreement. Daniels acting under POA signs a bill of sale, lien release, and release of theft in return for $625,000 24th December 2003. Karl Kleve passes away. 3rd August 2005. Jacques Swaters attorney contacts Kristi Lawson on becaming aware of the sale of the Parts, claiming a breach of the 1999 settlement agreement 15th August 2005. Kruse issue an amended press release removing the parts from the sale 29th August 2005. Sale 18th October 2006. Lawson obtains duplicate title in her late fathers name 27th October 2006. Lawson applies for permission from the probate court to sell the car 30th November 2006. Lawson transfers title into her name 12th February 2010. Swaters issues proceedings for breach of contract in Ohio 25th February 2010. Lawson sells Ford 70% of her interest for $5,000
The fax from Shannon Kruse (Kruse's In-House Counsel) to Kristi Lawson with the Brussels, Belgian attorney referral is dated April 25, 2005. Kruse fixed his sale materials MONTHS earlier than the date you list. The ad Anderson posted is from the Hemmings Motor News, likely March or April, 2005 -- maybe someone can check on that. The demand letter from Swaters' Georgia attorney Bruce Whitmer to Kristi Lawson is dated August 3, 2005, at least four months after Kruse knew the Ohio Parts were not part of the sale. Kristi signed car broker David Clark to recover and sell the stolen Ferrari on July 18, 2007. Clark made a little progress and had the parties talking. Kristi and Florence were actually emailing and talking in late 2009. When told about the theft, Florence said she had no idea that the Ferrari was a stolen car, and then later claimed she was told it was all settled in 1999, before her time. Something changed Florence's attitude and a lawsuit was filed a few months later. On July 16, 2010 Lancksweert admits under oath that the Ohio Parts were expressly excluded from the 1999 "transaction." Lancksweert's affidavit tells me that Jacques Swaters and Florence Swaters NEVER had any right to claim ownership of the Ohio Parts, yet they did so, and they hired US attorneys to press that false claim, once in 2005 and then again in 2010 as Ohio case A1001370. What is your opinion about people who do that? IMHO it is deceptive, dishonest, and fraudulent. IMHO, it sheds light on the type people we are dealing with -- so renumbering the stolen Ferrari from 0384AM to a counterfeit 0394AM was never a mere mistake. I anticipate Wexner's attorneys will get Swaters on the stand and have a field day with that. Then comes Gardner. Their fraudulent scheme, in cahoots with Bonhams, to knowingly sell the Ferrari without Ford and Lawson authority, will be exposed and court documented. IMHO, it is a new twist on a Ponzi scheme - here the auction house lures a buyer into paying BIG money on a KNOWN unauthorized "sale" that will not close, then the auction house holds onto the money and makes the victim-buyer chase them in court. Toss out the auction catalogue disclaimers as a defense. It reeks. That is racketeering. It is an abuse of the UK Court system. I can not believe Bonhams-Swaters-Gardner are fighting. I would advise they give his money back IMMEDIATELY -- ALL of it, plus his expenses, plus interest, plus a penalty and public apology as this is no mere business mistake or misunderstanding. Bonhams was warned. I suspect that Jones Day is advising Bonhams accordingly as Jones Day learns the truth and sees ALL the documents. Joe *
Just to be clear, Guy, you're claiming that the trial in 1989 that convicted two men of this crime either never happened, or that whatever they stole had nothing to do with 0384AM? Secondly, are you willing to explain your position on this issue in full as per my previous post (#2630), or are you just going to use this thread to go round-and-round with OJ?
What 1989 sentencing would you be referring to? Only 1 person was the seller of the Ferrari hulk in Tucker, Georgia (1988/89). That seller offered the partial remains of a 1954 Ferrari 375 Plus chassis #0384 for sale. The Ferrari hulk #0384 was identified by the late Mr. Gerald Roush Ferrari Historian Extraordinaire when he inspected the carcass in Tucker, Georgia. Mr. Gerald Roush gave paperwork to the seller that included the history, articles, and factory build records of #0384 two weeks before my involvement. A full and comprehensive investigation was performed prior to our purchase of #0384.The result in was no liens, no encumbrances, no NCIC stolen reports, no ownership history. Sometime later, the seller of the Ferrari carcass Turned States Evidence in reference to the 375 Plus. For our English friends that would be: Turned Queens Evidence or Turned Kings Evidence The FBI needed to enlist the seller as a government witness in order to attempt to convict the defendants. Only then could this action allow the seller to become immune from prosecution. . The prosecution initially charged the defendants with Interstate transport of an (ALLEGED) stolen vehicle. It was later discovered that the defendants did not travel outside of Georgia in relation to this purchase. The case was then re-thought by the prosecution and a second charge was added several months later. The second charge issued was Conspiracy. During Court; The lawyers for the defense argued the purchase was a good faith purchase and the remains of the hulk were stated as abandoned by the seller. The abandoned property was addressed in the courtroom and the vehicle was deemed abandoned. It was discovered, prior to and during the Atlanta federal courtroom proceedings, that Karl Kleve had no proof of ownership of any kind. The seller of the Ferrari hulk relinquished the 50,000 dollars he received for the purchase of the carcass, less the amount he paid for his girlfriends truck. The 45,000 dollars remaining was paid to Karl Kleve by the U.S. government by confirmation from Karl Kleve in one of many interviews. When the trial ended, the results, proving no wrong doing and NO theft by the defendants, was secured by a Belgium attorney. That paperwork was submitted to the Belgium authorities and a permanent release for the 1954 Ferrari 375 Plus #0384 was issued. The release was issued to M. Kruch of LException automobile.
THE MORE I READ ABOUT THE HISTORY AND AUCTION OF FERRARI 375 PLUS THE MORE CONTRADICTORY & ANNOYING IT BECOMES. JOEY HAS, MOSTLY, BEEN STRAIGHT WITH ME AND THUS I HAVE NO BEEF WITH MR. FORD A/K/A OCEAN JOE. BUT AS TO Y'ALL ---THERE ARE A FEW THINGS THAT I BELIEVE MAY WIND THIS UP SOONER RATHER THAN LATER: 1. THIS CASE IS NOW BECOMING VERY EXPENSIVE FOR ALL PARTIES. 2. THE FOLKS WITH DEEP POCKETS ARE IN ORDER OF WEALTH ARE: A. BONHAMS B. LES WEXNER C. CHRIS GARDNER D. FLO SWATTERS 3. THAT LEAVES : E. KLEVE-LAWSON, INHERITOR OF HER DAD'S MODEST REAL ESTATE HOLDINGS. F. JOSEPH FORD III ( ? ). REGARDLESS OF WHO IS AT FAULT FOR THIS FOLLY LAWYERS MUST BE PAID. AND THERE, AS THEY SAY, IS THE RUB. JOEY, A/K/A OCEAN JOE, SPEAKS OF AN ARBITRATION COMING IN A FEW WEEKS. HELLO ! THE AAA JUDGES GET $2,500 / DAY. THERE ARE THREE JUDGES. THEY SCHEDULE THE TIME THEY FEEL WILL BE NEEDED. A CASE THIS COMPLICATED WILL NEED A WEEK---AT LEAST DO THE MATH --- $2.5K X THREE JUDGES X FIVE DAYS IS ? DID I MENTION ? THIS RATHER LARGE RETAINER NEEDS TO BE POSTED IN ADVANCE. NO TIKKY NO LAUNDRY. DO YOU, JOEY, AND MS LAWDON HAVE HALF OF THIS SUBSTANTIAL SUM ? WHO WOULD BE SO NAIVE AS TO LEND YOU THIS UP-FRONT MONEY ? IF YOU WIN IT WOULD TAKE YEARS, IF EVER, TO COLLECT & PAY IT BACK. MEANWHILE, THE LONDON HIGH COURT PRESENTS YOU WITH AN EVEN HIGHER SUM YOU NEED TO RAISE. THE BRITS ARE REALLY, REALLY EXPENSIVE. TO GET ON THEIR DOCKET REQUIRES AN ANTI OF $30,000. THIS SUM QUICKLY ESCALATES TO 200 -300,000 POUNDS STIRLING. MY DAD, A MUCH ADMIRED WALL STREET SPECULATOR, GAVE ME MUCH GOOD ADVICE. " ALLEN " HE SAID, " THE RACE MAY NOT ALWAYS GO TO THE SWIFT. NOR, THE BATTLE TO THE STRONG ---- BUT, THAT'S THE WAY TO BET. " JOEY, YOU GOT GUTS AND A VERY INVENTIVE MIND. I ADMIRE THAT. BUT JOEY --- MY DAD'S ADVICE WAS USUALLY RIGHT ---- HE HAD THE MILLIONS TO PROVE IT. CIAO, ALLEN M N.A.R.T
All of that may be correct but the value of your A-F is wrong, wrong, wrong. Leslie Wexner - value US$7.6 billion Bonhams - value of the entire firm is only 150 - 200 mm GBP (well thats what they have been trying to sell it for) Swaters - impossible to calculate Gardner - ditto Everyone else - ditto And so what, even if Ocean Joe gets jilted at the court, there is still the matter of Wexner vs Bonhams/Gardner et al to be resolved, and mr wexner has pockets (and panties?) bigger than anyone (that has been mentioned in Vintage)..........
If one is considering available resources... and find a quick resolution Wexner camp should help / back the camp of OJ and Kleve to prevail in the remaining court actions... it is his best play to be rid of any future challenges and will provide the best linage to clear ownership of the car... as the Bonhams et al camp is fraught with challengeable obsticles
A, Thanks for the intel -- the stuff between the lines -- the "tell." Though I do not believe court is a net worth contest, my bet is on Wexner. I have seen Bonhams' cards, Swaters' cards, and Gardner's cards. Wexner, via his attorneys, asked to use some of my cards. I said sure. My bets are placed accordingly. Stay tuned. J P.S. Extra points if you know the source of the first image below. * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
HEY JOEY, I ALWAYS SAID, " JOEY IS THE BRIGHTEST GUY IN THE ROOM." THE QUOTE IS FROM "THE ART OF WAR. " ALTHOUGH 500 YEARS OR MORE SINCE IT WAS WRITTEN , THIS SLIM CLASSIC IS REQUIRED READING IN EVERY WAR COLLEGE FOR TOKYO TO WEST POINT. BUT, MOST READERS DON'T REAL GET IT. THE CHINESE PHILOSOPHER / GENERAL. WAS A BIT OPAQUE. TRUE, THE ENEMY MUST BE FED INCORRECT INFO. THEN HE MUST ACT --- MOVING HIS FORCES TO CONFRONT HIS OPPONENT'S BATTLE PLAN. THUS MISLED, HE HAS INDEED LOST THE BATTLE BEFORE THE FIRST SHOT IS FIRED. BUT, AS YOU SEE THERE ARE A LOT OF "Ifs ".. If, the enemy doesn't believe the misleading info he has been fed. If, he is ineffective in his instructions,. If, his commanders smell a rat and take precautions.. Most important --- If a wise enemy keeps an adequate RESERVE FORCE to protect against a breakthrough. THUS, General Sen Sun (?) did not win every battle. JOEY IF I WAS AT RISK, WHICH I'M NOT, I WOULD DOUBLE DOWN MY BET. YOU ARE A GENERAL WHO RARELY WINS HIS BATTLES. MR. WEXNER IS WAY OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE (AND MINE ). WHATEVER HIS BEEF IS REALLY ABOUT PROBABLY GOES BACK LONG BEFORE THIS FERRARI AUCTION. YOU NEVER HAVE KNOWN " WHEN TO HOLD'M AND WHEN TO FOLD'M. YOU HAD MILLIONS --- ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS SHUT UP AND TAKE THE MONEY. NOW YOU HAVE A DESPERATE LAWSUIT WITH NO FUNDS TO PROCEED ---- THUS, WHETHER YOU ARE RIGHT OR WRONG-- WE SHALL NEVER KNOW. I FEEL YOUR PAIN JOEY. YOU DO AMAZING WORK.--- YET YOU NEVER GET YOUR DUE. MY OPINION ? I BELIEVE YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE UNLUCKY SOULS WHO CAN'T STAND SUCCESS. OR, MAYBE, YOU HAVE A WORLD CLASS CASE OF "HUBRIS ". (A GREEK WORD --- LOOK IT UP ) CIAO, OLD RACER
YOU HAD MILLIONS --- ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS SHUT UP AND TAKE THE MONEY. Yeah and watch as Chris G claimed every last ******** cent of it. Everything changes when the context is explained.......
Joe, any more news on the game changing motion ? Can you also explain the basis of your arguments for the 3rd February. What I do not understand is that given your previous successful appeal was on the basis that the Court had no jurisdiction as all disputes were ceded to London, are you not now effectively appealing your own appeal ?
I humbly agree, as I put on my shades . . . LOL. That is true, but that was not the question. You score zero points. (Mistakes like that are why people continue litigating when, if they could think clearly and analyze sharply, they see why they should quit - i.e. know when to fold 'em.) The only person who characteristically deludes himself to think legitimate, meritorious opponents can't possibly have a legitimate gripe is . . . . . c'mon, you know . . . Now I am sure. Hi Chris. Spreading disinformation I see. Sorry about your loss . . . in court. Those battles were won before they were fought . . . go back and read the deposition if you doubt me. Again, I humbly agree LOL. I'm not buyin'. You sound more and more like OLD CHRIS to me. If by chance you are Allen, then you of all people know I don't place losing bets. J *
Timmmmmmmmmy, I am not arguing Gardners case but the "context" should also include the open ended financiers agreement that required Gardener to pay, without time or limit, all of the litigation costs for recovery. All of the Ohio contingent signed and accepted the HOA giving them 50% and it was only after OJ frustrated the auction and called a breach that Gardner made his claim. Both sides are now claiming everything and the arbitration will settle that argument !
