Not crappy replicas!!!! | Page 8 | FerrariChat

Not crappy replicas!!!!

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by redhammer, May 28, 2012.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Simon

    Simon Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Aug 29, 2003
    6,750
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Simon
  2. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    RCR from all that I hear, is a real decent company, good people, with very decently made products.
     
  3. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    looks like an interesting project, do you have the site link? thx
     
  4. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    2,028
    Barrington, Ill. USA
    Full Name:
    Ross
    #179 It's Ross, Apr 5, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
    My thoughts
    I would love to own and drive a GT40, on the road and the track. It is absolutely unaffordable for me and road driving the real deal is asking for trouble anyway.

    SO, I propose having a replica or whatever you care to call, say a Superformance car.

    I would drive the snot out of it and have a permanent grin. It could be badged a Superformance, a Ford, a Ross or perhaps I'd devise a "FAKE" logo to resemble the original badge. It doesn't matter to me. The assumption that owning a replica makes you a poseur is not universally true. It is about the driving experience for some.

    Is the real car owner's experience better? For sure, especially in a car with provenance. I could only imagine I'm sitting in Gurney's seat but I have the same view, same sounds, smells and feeling the "same" car beneath me. Far better than not having the experience at all.

    If those who own the real deal, worked hard to pay for it blah, blah, are offended they may kindly piss up a rope. Plenty of poseurs among the "real" exotic car owners in case nobody has noticed, for them it's about ownership and ostentation. Who might be more deserving, an true enthusiast who appreciates the car's original intent or the guy who simply has to have it for the sake of having it? Where would the car choose to live?

    Is it theft of another's work? About as much as singing Happy Birthday without paying royalties to the composer. You don't see any of the original makers (ol' Shel excluded)scampering to build continuations, which ought to be easier for them, but they are more than happy to line up to file a lawsuit, sit back and wait for a check which seldom comes. It could be argued that they(the original mnfrs.) are the ones seeking to profit from another's work.

    For a "good" replica I'll gladly wear the scarlet letter.
     
  5. richard k

    richard k Karting

    Nov 2, 2009
    136
    Irricana Alberta
    looks like an interesting project, do you have the site link? thx
    Yes that in one nice ferrari. I saw it on the home mail site which is a British tabloid site all kinds of interesting stuff. Kind of like the TMZ site but bigger and better. They had a nice right up on the car and even had pics of the doner car.
     
  6. Daryl

    Daryl Formula 3

    Nov 10, 2003
    1,030
    Barrington Hills, IL
    Full Name:
    Daryl Adams
    A man after my own heart. I felt the same about the GT40 and I sold a Ferrari to buy a Superformance. I got to drive it in the GT40 only session at the Redman Historics at Road America and was gridded next to George Stauffer's original GT40 that won LeMans in 1966. After one slow lap George brought his car back to the safety of the garage. Those of us in the Superfomance cars stayed out and enjoyed several laps at full chat. I have never regretted buying that car.

    I just noticed, we're neighbors.
     
  7. gaspump

    gaspump Karting
    BANNED

    Mar 6, 2013
    99
    SE indiana
    Full Name:
    bill
    Wow, some hard comments on this thread. Replica's are for people who can't afford the real thing, and there are millions. If I had a replica, as long as I'm happy I would'nt care what people said, or what they thought about real or not. I live my own life and let people live their's.
     
  8. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    #183 JeremyJon, Apr 6, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
    just from the same people repeated over & over, just ignore
     
  9. richard k

    richard k Karting

    Nov 2, 2009
    136
    Irricana Alberta
    Not sure if the replicas are just for people who cant afford the real deal statement works as a lot of times the replica can get pretty pricey. A lot of times it is a labor of love as the builder wants a dead on copy and that can cost. To build a nice diablo or murcielago or even a countash will cost 60 to 100k and you can get a real one in that price range. In the replica world you get what you pay for. There are lots of unfinished cars out there as people realize how much they actually cost to build. I belive it is about 3% of kits that are started and actually finished insured and registered.
     
  10. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    i'd agree with that, why do guys build aircraft from scratch, or scale models worth $$$ from scratch ....much of the hobby is in the building and craftsmanship, pride in having done it yourself!
     
  11. Dinofan2

    Dinofan2 Rookie

    Oct 25, 2013
    17

    Finally a man with the right deduction. there is nothing like the classics and CRAFTSMANSHIP is what is about :) and self satisfaction
    Cheers
     
  12. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    "Nothing like the classics" describes this whole thread.

    It's 2013. Time to build a carbon fibre Model T... for the sake of history.
     
  13. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    ... unless the other people are car designers, in which case it seems OK to appropriate their work without paying them.

    In the meantime, a lot of formerly affordable classic sports cars, like early 911s, 914s, several terrific Alfas, Merc 280 SLs, etc., have nearly doubled in value over the past 4-5 years, so even the financial side of replicas is hard to rationalize.
     
  14. Bradley

    Bradley F1 Rookie

    Nov 23, 2006
    2,831
    Lakewood, Colorado
    Full Name:
    Bradley
    I would love to have the experience of having ten million dollars in my bank account, but I never will. That just isn't fair! So, I bought my own printing press, installed it in my basement, and began making twenties that are so much like the real thing that even the experts can't tell the difference.

    Okay, so maybe it's not "real," but here I am having the same exact experiences as the people who have ten million real dollars. Plus, there's the pride of craftsmanship in knowing that I did it myself, and the joy of my own labor.

    Haters can hate, but I don't see anything wrong with it! :rolleyes:
     
  15. superwoman

    superwoman Rookie

    Apr 9, 2012
    16
    #190 superwoman, Jan 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
    Like one of the posters said, the replica issue is not black and white.

    Your example only makes sense if the person bought a replica car to delude himself that he really has a real deal. Most people purchase replica to try to recreate an experience that is hard to attain otherwise, and there is nothing wrong with that.

    There is a different between getting a replica to try to pass off as a real to fool others and getting a replica because you like the look/feeling of the original.

    Another consideration is the practicality of a replica where it could be driven and used regularly.

    Going back to your example, if you printed 10 million dollar fake dollar bill because you simply enjoy the view of the green bill but don't have or want to risk having 10 million real dollar bill, then it becomes an art. You can even invite your buddy and say "hey check this out. I just printed these. This is how $10 million in cash looks like. How cool is that?" There is nothing wrong with that besides being hunted down by Secret Service.

    On the other hand, if you printed $10 million fake bills and try to pass it off as real to IMPRESS others as if you really have $10 million cash, then you are walking on a thin line. "Hey, check this out, I'm rich. I have 10 million dollars, and I took it out from the bank. This is how it looks like."

    People do reenactment and dress up in period costumes all the time. They are in the same category as most kit car owners. These reenactors are not trying to fool people to say they fell into a time warp and actually from 1861. They do reenactment because they enjoy the experience of those events which are unattainable otherwise. Are you going to call them fake as well because obviously, they are not from the past?
     
  16. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    #191 Bullfighter, Jan 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
    Either it was made by Ferrari, or it wasn't.

    Either it was made by Porsche, or it wasn't.

    Black and white... I can come up with various reasons why I need to create a Rolex in my garage, but from the perspective of Rolex my rationalizations aren't all that relevant. Practicality, not being able to afford the authentic article, good intentions, etc., are all interesting to talk about, but bottom line is that something is either authentic or it isn't.

    (And yes, I drove the Speedster five days last week, on actual roads -- the weather was great. I parked at a restaurant for lunch, stopped for groceries, etc. Put more miles on it than on my daily driver. Not sure how having a fake would have improved the experience. It's not a million dollar car, like the ones raced at Goodwood and Monterey, but it is the real deal and runs fine.)
     
  17. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    If you print fake money, it's a federal offense and you will go to a federal prison. Even if my intentions were simply to impress my kids, it's a federal offense.
     
  18. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,349
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    I can understand the reasoning on both sides of this argument. Both groups make well-reasoned points. I suppose it is one of those areas there will always be disagreement. I see it as a good thing....if folks have the time to get into passionate disagreements over 6 and 7 figure replicas of old cars, that tells me that things are still going pretty well in this world. All it takes is one REAL disaster to make such things seem like the frivolous nothings that they are. Starving refugees and orphans probably don't argue about replica Cobras, in other words.

    Anyway, I've just been browsing the aviatorchat section, enjoying looking at the really neat replica WWI aircraft members here have built. Heck one guy is even building a compete replica WWI aerodrome! I'm just curious what the folks here who are "against" replica cars, watches, or whatever think about those. Should they not be building those replicas, or are airplanes ok?
     
  19. superwoman

    superwoman Rookie

    Apr 9, 2012
    16
    I believe I have clearly stated in my post that you will get a visit from the Secret Service.
     
  20. superwoman

    superwoman Rookie

    Apr 9, 2012
    16
    #195 superwoman, Jan 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014

    Nothing in the world is black or white. If you believe in that, then you have a very myopic worldview.

    No one is claiming a replica is authentic. Most will happily acknowledge their kitcar is a re-creation.

    Do you watch movies? Do you know the acting is all fake? Should we shun all movies and watch documentaries instead since they are not "authentic" ? If someone tries to pass off a fictional movie as an authentic documentary, then it is wrong.

    Would you call motor enthusiasts who play simulation racing games "Losers and fake" because they couldn't afford to race the real cars? If you say "Yes", then I suspect your prejudice toward replica is based on nothing other than snobbery.

    If you don't think simulation racing game is wrong, then what is so wrong about replica? Replica simply takes the computerized simulation to the next level - real life simulation.

    People who hate on replica need to be honest with their feelings. Do you really feel that replica is fundamentally and morally wrong or your prejudice is simply a disguise of elitism?
     
  21. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    #196 Bullfighter, Jan 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
    Not sure how acting fits into this (?) I suppose if Daniel Craig dropped into your house from a helicopter, shot up the place and claimed to be MI-6, we'd have a problem.

    If you create a watch that looks like a $20,000 Rolex, and it says Rolex on it, that is a fake and you've ripped off Rolex. Maybe you can't afford a $20K watch, so you had to fake it. You can announce that it's a fake to everyone you meet, but guess what -- it's still illegal.

    If you create a piano and that looks and is signed "Bosendorfer", it's a fake and you've ripped off Bosendorfer. Maybe you didn't have $100K available to buy that brand, so you had to fake it. Tell everyone who comes over it's a fake, but the owners of the Bosendorfer name still have a case against you.

    If you make wine and stick a Francis Ford Coppola label on it, you're ripped of that winery. Maybe that's OK, because it's a known brand, so you had to fake it to give your creation instant status.

    If you make Tiffany-design jewelry out of base metal, electroplate it in gold, and stamp it "Tiffany", you've ripped off Tiffany & Co. But otherwise your home made jewelry wouldn't command as much respect, so might as well use their name, design and throw it in a light blue box. Announce it as a "tribute" and tell Tiffany's attorneys you had no plans to sell it, and see how that goes.

    But if you make, say, a car that copies the Jaguar D-Type out of plastic, it's "OK because it's fun and the real ones are expensive, and you can't drive a real one because it's expensive, and Jaguar doesn't seem to be pursuing anyone who does this, and it was quality time with my kid, and it's a tribute not a copy, and it's helping publicize the brand and it's a public service, and it's faster than a real one, and I don't have enough money, and only elitists have a real one", and (on and on and on with the rationalizations...) NO ONE asks Jaguar, which commissioned the original design, whether it is OK to do this.

    Truth is that a Jag D-Type is a hell of an expensive car, and I doubt I'd ever be able to write a check for one. Instead of accusing the fortunate guys who own D-Types of being elitist, I appreciate their cars, buy the best authentic cars I can afford, and drive them with pride and appreciation. The notion that it's OK to steal something if you can't afford it is shunned everywhere except (a) China and (b) in the replica car market. If you're enough of a car guy or girl, you can afford some very cool vintage sports cars and have a great time on the track or the street. Personally, I would love to own a 250 GT SWB, but I don't, and life goes on even without one.

    If someone wants to create a "tribute" or "replica", simply go to Ferrari, or Jaguar, or Mercedes or Porsche, and ask permission. Once you have permission, it's not a fake.

    Black and white.
     
  22. V-TWELVE

    V-TWELVE Formula 3

    Jan 1, 2007
    1,800
    Vancouver, BC
    You seem to lack a basic understanding of what makes things real or fake. Go and make a new Star Wars movie without approval from the studio that owns the rights and see how many years you get. Yes you probably are indeed a loser if you play a pirated version of a computer racing game, not only could you not afford a real race car, which is no big deal, but your too cheap to even buy your own licenced copy of a game. It's not elitist to say someone should have to pay for something instead of stealing it.
     
  23. Bradley

    Bradley F1 Rookie

    Nov 23, 2006
    2,831
    Lakewood, Colorado
    Full Name:
    Bradley
    That is the whole and entire point of having a replica car.

    Do you really think that? Can you possibly believe that building a 250 GTO on a Datsun 240 "recreates the experience" in any way? Do you really think that a phony Testarossa on a Pontiac Fiero chassis "recreates the experience" of actually driving a genuine Testarossa?

    Even in the case of, say, building a 250 GTO copy on a 250 Lusso platform, the "experience" is still that of driving a Lusso. And if the experience is close enough, then what's the point of tacking a phony body on it?

    It's possible - though exceedingly rare - to see "replicas" that duplicate the look very closely. It's impossible to "recreate the feel."

    And your point? You want practicality, buy a Volvo. And, anyway, I drive my Ferrari regularly.

    Oh, yeah. . . besides that small matter. . .

    But, as with "replica' cars, the experience is not the same. Investing, earning dividends, and actually spending some of that "money" is part of the "experience" of having it. Like replica owners, the point is "duplicating the experience," right? And you can't have that without deceit, because in both cases, what you have is not genuine!]/i]

    Exactly. I'll say it again: The full and entire point of creating a "replica" car is to pass it off as real and "IMPRESS" others as if you really have the genuine car. No matter what any of the "replica" apologists say, they want others to think that they have the real thing. Period.

    That last point is specious.
     
  24. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,349
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    I agree with you on the Fiero and Datsun chassis cars. However, do you think a Pur Sang Bugatti replica or a Proteus C-Type would feel more like a real Bugatti/C-Type or more like a Fiero?

    Also, you said the only reason people build replicas is to deceive and impress others. With regards to the gentlemen I mentioned who are building replicas of WW1 aircraft, who is it you feel they are trying to impress or deceive?
     
  25. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 29, 2002
    2,544
    Suwanee Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey Davison
    Not crappy........ [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvs5jRi4h80[/ame]
     

Share This Page