Why aren't we remaking them ?!

I'm not sure that Ferrari would be so generous.

 

I may be wrong but design copyright in Europe only extends for 70 years.

Gloves off for pre war motor cars but I may have to wait for my Pur Sang Monza

 

There is no problem with intellectual property so long as the builder doesn't call it a Ferrari or use Ferrari badges. There is no patent protection, those will have long expired, and there are no design proprietary issues. If someone wants to make an exact reproduction they can, and there are no intellectual property issues so long as it is not represented as a Ferrari.

Component cars like many Cobra replicas are commonly sold "less engine" and the buyer can install the engine and register the car. By selling the car complete, less engine and sending the engine in a crate allows the car to basically circumvent safety and emissions regulations in most states in the USA (the peoples republic of Calif not withstanding).

The cost of a 250 series "donor" car for replicas of more desirable models was low enough and if you had many of the components it was far less expensive to use a GTE as a donor car and make a replica from that. As the cost of less desirable cars continues to rise it could soon become less expensive to make new parts than buy a donor car. At that point a tool room replica could be manufactured and if desired, and at some point it might make sense from an economic standpoint. Right now it doesn't, but that does not mean it wouldn't in the future.

 

The vintage Bug crowd are much more liberal with modified cars than the Ferrari set is. The brand's toleration of recreations seems to be an extension of this attitude.

 

They have the right to sue not the right to prevail in court. Even a Court win can be prohibitively expensive

 

Driving a fake isn't very aristocratic.

>8^)
ER

 

I don't know about that. More than a few titled families have fallen on hard times, hocked the family jewels and were left to wearing paste replicas.

 

But would they admit that and did it make them happy when they were putting them on?

>8^)
ER

 

I'd rather drive a total fake then half a fake that took the life of a real Ferrari.

 

I'd rather just be myself and drive a real car that I can actually afford even if that doesn't impress the neighbors.

>8^)
ER

 

Maybe your assuming that all people drive cars to impress their neighbors?

For me it's about the driving experience. Unless you have tens of millions at your disposal you will never get that experience buying a real car.

Sure some would buy to impress. Then there's guys like me that would love to drive the wheels off one that I'm not too worried about crashing.

 

Perhaps where we differ is that I value my integrity and reputation more than a great drive.

Also, if you're not afraid of driving the wheels off of, and crashing, a car with safety features equivalent to those from the 1930's to the 1950's I suggest you review the number of deaths that occurred in motorsports during those years.

>8^)
ER

 

We do differ. I value my personal enjoyment versus what people think about me. Not looking to impress anyone with the car other then impress my enjoyment level.

You wont get that feel out of any new car. Or old car for that matter.

And I raced go-carts for years. So no. I'm not a guy that is worried about traction control and air bags.

It's sad when all people think of a car as is a status symbol. For others the car is about why it aquired that staus, I.E. great comp car with excellent handling and power, versus the status itself.

Why not just get a GTE?

I don't know. Why not ask Ferrari why they made the SWB and the GTO and just didn't race the GTE?

There it is.

 

And if driving a classic reproduction was the only way to find personal enjoyment then I might have some sympathy for your position.

>8^)
ER

 

Why would I only want to pursue one avenue of personal enjoyment?

I happen to love these cars and if I had the chance would rather thrash a pure rep then a real one.

If I really had the need to impress I'd need a real one. For all I care the repro could have Oscar Myer Badges.

Don't know about you but I believe in doing what I love. All of it.

If you want to limit yourself go ahead. But me... I'm gonna go do whatever tickles my goat.

 

I love these cars too but don't believe in diluting the brand to achieve my own personal pleasure. There can be no justification in creating a fake, especially not one so self serving. The only time I give this activity a pass would be if the original/s no longer exist.

>8^)
ER

 

Yes absolutely. There is not intellectual protection for mechanical things like a car. That's just life. You can copyright a photo or a document and own the intellectual property essentially forever. For machines you can patent them and own the rights for 17 years (in the USA). In addition you have to pay annual fees in each jurisdiction that you patent something in, but that's it, and after 17 years it is in the public domain, folks can copy it at will. The legal system doesn't treat engineering intellectual property the same as writing or music. I personally think that sucks and isn't fair to engineers, but that's the way it is. Cars aren't patented, just some systems and inventions that are parts of a car carry patent protection, but an entire car isn't, because you could make some small changes that are "improvements" and beat the patent anyway.

These old cars are just machines in the eyes of the law. No different from copying a tractor or a wheel or whatever. You have to meet the safety and emissions laws in the country of sale, but so long as you do that you are good to go if it is to be licensed as a road vehicle. If you don't license it for the street, there are no regulations, so you could sell them as a track car and not have to meet any safety or emissions requirements.

The only thing Ferrari owns is the rights to the emblems and the name, but that's it. So long as you don't infringe on those you can build and sell whatever you want. You could even make every part carry the same part number as the original, and it could look identical, but so long as the part didn't have a Ferrari logo on it you are fine.

Italy has other laws about fakes, but in most other countries you can do what you want and make whatever you want to make.

 

I believe Ferrari sell their badges, and they are not stingy about it. They can't tell you what you can or cannot put the badge on once they sell it to you. You can't represent the car as being made by Ferrari, but you can put on any badge or other part legally obtained from Ferrari. Design trademark, in the US at least, is only 15 or 16 years so anything from the 348 back wouldn't be legally protected. In Europe/Italy, I believe the time period is longer but if you don't plan to ship your car to Europe, it shouldn't matter. I believe Ferrari does, or at one time did, have a replica in their museum, so even they don't frown on all of them

Some companies - SLP comes to mind - will not sell you badges/decals unless you prove ownership of a car to prevent fakes, but it's only of current models where you re-creating it would damage their business. If you re-create a Ferrari 250, it has no impact at all on Ferrari's business as they are not making one themselves and indeed you'd have to buy some parts from them so they'd profit from your replica.

The reason we don't see it more often is that in cases other than say a GTO or testa rossa or the P cars, the replica would cost as much as an original. In the case of the GTO and testa rossa, there are quite a few nut and bolt replicas out there and they seem to cost in the $600-800k range to build and trade in that range second hand. I don't know where you think you're going to be able to build a true nut and bolt replica cheaply, but I can tell you I researched having some heads duplicated and cast for a project where there was only one head that I knew of in existence, and it was not cheap.

Registering and titling in the US is easy, you title it as a homebuilt/kit car.

 

I'd rather see a car replicated out of whole cloth rather than sacrifice a "lesser" Ferrari to make a better fake.
Ferrari may prefer to protect its rights at the expense of its heritage, but it's not the first time that others hold its tradition dearer than they do. But they're a business not keepers of the flame.

 

There is no rather for me - I don't support either practice.

>8^)
ER

 

If you built one as a manufacturer and sold it you can't put Ferrari badges on it even though Ferrari sells their badges. After you sell it the owner could put Ferrari badges on it if he wants to. Folks put Ferrari badges on Fieros too, but

While it isn't cheap to replicate any casting, the tooling now is getting a lot less expensive than it used to be. You can scan the existing part, model the surfaces that you can't see internal to the casting and then make the part in plastic, pour a casting and it will cost perhaps 7 to 10 grand per casting. Not cheap, but doable. Or you could now make the part by what is called "additive manufacturing" which is essentially the same a making it in plastic, but in aluminum instead. Not cheap either, but if you need one part and they aren't available it can be done. If you want to make a half a dozen or more, you can make the tools to cast them relatively inexpensively now by CNC machining wood casting patterns and that is much much less expensive than it used to be. There are a number of small casting shops that can make the castings for a very reasonable price. If you were going to make more than just a few cars, with today's technology you could tool up for it and what you couldn't cast you could CNC machine from billet stock. And yea, you are probably looking at $500k - $600k for a tool room copy, but if you wanted to make more than couple, you could amoratize the tooling over more than one car and it would likely get a lot less expensive and there could be a nice profit in it.