375+ # 0384

If a simple 500 mondial is selling for $3M this week - And records are being set daily now across the marketplace, this is a $12,000,000 Ferrari 375 Plus laundering job that continues through the DNA pool of Swaters up to today. I am glad Ocean will go the distance now with a Febuary 2013 trial before normal citizens of the USA. Will it take that to form an opinion in our community ? I think not. It took playing this out in the media to get them trapped and nailed. It also uncovered well known good guys and bad guys - in this community. As the cars approach art-market levels of value, there will come more of these greed induced crimes IMO.

 

It gets better.

Patrice only has a few pieces of the puzzle, so he does not yet have it right.

Patrice's blog - http://www.gatsbyonline.com/main.aspx?page=text&id=725&cat=auto

Below are some FBI tidbits and some of my "opinion" as comments.

Soon I expect to make a presentation to the FBI to connect a few dots, show how they have been played, and maybe re-initiate / re-invigorate them to get some closure. The dots will certainly be connected for Ohio's Judge Nadel to rule upon.

It is now only a matter of time.

Joe

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I share this sentiment. Though I too have no idea who is truly right or wrong here, the uninhibited finger pointing, unsupported accusations of complicity and general one-sidedness leave a very bad taste in my mouth. At various points it reads like a bad 9/11 conspiracy theory, with a few too many mustache-twirling "bad guys." All rights & wrongs aside, this thread's claims make the plaintiffs far less sympathetic to my eyes than they would be otherwise.

Let it play in court, I say. But that's just my equally crabby opinion!

 

I for one do find this all interesting. Now of course Joe is going to tell the story to the best advantage of his viewpoint. We as the readers should be cognizant of this and leave room for the possibility of alternative versions of this story. By doing all of this I do suspect that tidbits of information have come about from people here that Joe did not already know about.

We all may not like it but the world of Ferrari has some underbelly areas that exists.

Jeff

 

Here, here, and even if it is fairly vulgar, it is great to have some of this out in the open, information in all its cold hard nakedness is the only way. For you whom state that we are only hearing one side, maybe BUT ................

What other reason for all of this is there

1 - Someone stole the car (And it was NEVER returned)
2 - The car was very strangely imported and exported through several countries in an incredibly short period of time, for no reason whatsoever.
3 - It was stolen from the Belgian customs lockup
4 - The number of supposed owners in this car matched the number of owners that needed to have owned the car before the law stated you were no longer guilty of receiving stolen goods
5 - The car was then registered as a different chassis number, and renumbered after the 10 year limit expired.
6 - Swaters/ Lanksweert and their agents spent a lot of time and effort trying to buy the "rights" to 0384AM

Either this is a miraculous set of coincidences or it is something altogether fishy............

IMO, I think Ocean Joe is working for his supper, But for a Ferrari fan that quite likes supporting the underdog I want him to "finish the job"

 

there is no statue of limitations on stolen property ( including cars )...

recently an owner noticed his stolen Austin Healy ( reported stolen many many years earlier ... maybe 30 + ) for sale on eBay, he called the authorities, who returned the car to him...

 

I believe you are referring to US law and not Belgian. That appears to be one of the points here.

Jeff

 

In 1989 and 1990, the issue of whether Belgian law protected Kruch then Swaters was raised. Though the Belgian code (based on France's Napoleonic code) has different phrases and terms, it reaches the same result.

The underlying premis is that to purchase in good faith one must buy for value and without notice.

Value means you must give near market value, as at an auction or from a dealer (i.e. arms' length, near retail). It does not mean a thief cuts a deal with a dealer, sells for 1/100 of the value, who sells again for 1/100 the value, and all is well.

Notice means you, as a prudent buyer, do those tasks to confirm that what you are buying is on the up and up. So, if a vehicle has questionable paperwork, or fraudulent paperwork, or is missing its VIN plate, or is reported stolen, or has an illegible VIN, etc, then the prudent things requires you research until concluded. Neither Anderson, nor Kruch, and certainly not Swaters qualify.

The failure to return a known stolen car puzzled the FBI as they knew in 1989 and 1990 that there were too many red flags to be a good faith purchase. As the U.S.Attorney noted, the Belgians were uncooperative.

Kruch was stuck with his fraudulent $4,500 paperwork for something he likely paid over $50,000 for, so even if in good faith, reclamation could not be allowed. Enter Swaters, stealthily, who without admitting possession, assumed he could impress Kleve into selling - when Kleve refused to sell, the car went underground under a new number.

Joe

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Has the Judge ordered the car back to the US for inspection?

Is this ever going to trail?

Where is the car now?

Is it being properly maintained or rotting away?

 

IIRC it was last seen leaving public display at the Factory.....there was a video of it "going up the truck"....

I think Classiche is going into production.....

 

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Judge decided it was easier for me to go to Italy to inspect, than to ship car here.

Trial date February 13, 2013, though may be delayed, IMO for the last time if delayed. Swaters' side is dragging their feet about depositions.

Car is supposed to be in safe storage at Ferrari factory.

I can only assume Ferrari factory is taking care of maintenance, but I do not know.

Joe

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Franco Lombardi, post #16: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311649

http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/0386am.375plus.htm

Obviously 1989 was an interesting year for the 375+.
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[QUOTE Obviously 1989 was an interesting year for the 375+.[/QUOTE]

I know the restorer. I think his mother restored paintings of Jesus
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Ferrari Community,

Is it my net provider or is the Swaters website down?

Also, I will pay a $100 reward to the first person that emails me a good scan of the 1989 ad of this Ferrari 375 Plus for sale that I am told was run in some UK media and $100 reward for the ad in some 1989 Monaco media.

Joe

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It's not down, I think they are changing the numbers - again .

 

This Illinois case is from a dispute that arose October 17, 1985.

The trial judge was affirmed on March 30, 1990, 15 days after Swaters "acquired" Kleve's stolen Ferrari 375 Plus.

The Kleve/Swaters facts are different but they reach the same conclusion that there was no contract.

Just an FYI about another rare Ferrari 375 Plus being in Court - the surge in Ferrari prices in the mid to late eighties had thieves and brokers tripping over each other to "acquire" the rare Ferrari's, a lamentable development as reported in June/July 1989 Il Cavallino.

Note how prescient that editorial was about how the chickens come home to roost when a possessor of stolen property attempts to sell it.

Joe

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An FYI:

Ohio Statute 2913.02 Theft.
(A) No person, with purpose to deprive the owner of property or services, shall knowingly obtain or exert control over either the property or services in any of the following ways:
(1) Without the consent of the owner or person authorized to give consent;
(2) Beyond the scope of the express or implied consent of the owner or person authorized to give consent;
(3) By deception;
(4) By threat;
(5) By intimidation.
(B)(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of theft.

So, now that we know about the unjustified 1990-1999 renumbering, and then the altered 1999 "settlement agreement" being used to justify that continued unjustified possession, the ball game takes on a new dimension.

Joe

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Things are progressing slowly. We are still in the discovery phase.

We (the Kleve side) filed a Motion for Partial Summary Judgment on the issue that the alleged agreement was altered after Kleve signed, thus the document is not a legal contract that a court can enforce.

The Judge will hear this Motion at the end of discovery. It was filed to help the other side understand that Kleve's agent altered the $3,000,00 price on what Kleve signed, thus there was never an agreement.

There may have been a fraud on Swaters for $625,000, but that does not mean Swaters gets to keep the stolen the car - it means Swaters may be owed reimbursement by the principal (Kleve) for the acts of a rogue agent (Daniels). Because Swaters' partner took the unusual and suspicious step of paying Kleve's agent direct at twice the fee, it is almost certain that at that point Daniels actually flipped and became Swaters' agent, and Swaters does not qualify for reimbursement from Kleve. Swaters must seek his $625,000 from Daniels or Lancksweert.

Audio file excerpts of Kleve were included in the that Motion so the Court and Jury will hear it firsthand from the witness, who was 86 years old at the time, and is now no longer with us.

I will try to link to those audio excerpts now on you tube so that the entire Ferrari community can hear it firsthand too.

The first excerpt is Kleve talking to Daniels on July 17, 1999 about the amount Kleve filled in the day after Kleve had signed the offer - $3,000,000.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsnSJEuG6Is[/ame]

The second excerpt is Kleve talking to Daniels on July 21, 1999 asking if Lancksweert had accepted Kleve's $3,000,00 offer. When Kleve hears Lancksweert did not accept, Kleve says well good, because now the price is . . . (I will let you fill in the blank.)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yinEs7q7-A[/ame]

The third excerpt is Kleve talking to the FBI on June 5, 2000, after Kleve heard rumors that someone had "bought" his car. It confirms Kleve's last offer as being $3,000,000, and any other number as pure fiction, the work of others.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZWc_WYh5x0[/ame]

Joe

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Another excerpt with Karl Kleve talking to the FBI on June 5, 2000, after Kleve heard rumors that someone had "bought" his car. It again confirms Kleve's $3,000,000 price on his offer that was ready for signing and closing.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W46WKugVSU[/ame]

 

I have read this thread from start to finish and I have had one nagging sentiment plaguing me all along.

I don’t know the players but we all know people like them. While I sympathize with Mr. Kleve’s loss, there is part of me that roots for the other side too. And here is why….
As a car lover I have been fortunate enough to make some really wonderful automotive discoveries including a backyard find 30’s Lemans race car. However I have also been the discoverer of multiple automotive tragedies. We have all seen them, the special, rare or amazing car that fell into the wrong hands. The owners that leave their historic or fantastic automotive treasures rotting into the ground, in leaky water filled rat infested warehouses, or they take them apart and scatter them to the winds by careless stewardship of these remarkable cars. From what I have read and the photos of where he had this remarkable car stored Mr. Kleve is guilty of all of the above. He should have been ashamed of himself.

When you are careless enough, or reckless enough to have city come on your property and haul several classic cars and their parts to a junkyard and others scramble to the junkyard to try and salvage what they can find, then you don’t deserve the cars in your possession. This 375plus suffered tremendously in the hands of Mr. Kleve judging from the photos of the car in the mud on Kleve's property and what arrived at the restoration shop. Kleve certainly had enough money where he could afford a little covered inside dry storage. Sorry if that offends you but it is the way I feel. It’s like owning the Mona Lisa and hanging it on the outside of your outhouse and then getting upset if someone comes along after years of neglect and tries to preserve it.

Sometimes a car is sentenced to death , merely by being purchased by someone like Karl Kleve. We all know a hoarder like him that buys up way more cars then he will ever be able to restore, crams them into some weed-filled lot and lets them rot into the ground. All inquiries to purchase them are met with a “I’m gonna fix em up next year” or a figure three or four times their value is demanded.

Yes, I understand….. it’s their property and they can do what they want. But when you have a drop dead gorgeous wife, and you beat her and neglect her and ignore her, somebody else is going to come along and take her away. Sorry, but that’s just not the way you treat what you think is your $3,000,000 car. I am so glad I was not one of the unfortunates that had seen that car in person rotting away in Kleve’s junkyard or it would have driven me crazy too. I admit it, I would have laid awake at night dreaming about liberating it from there and setting it free. Would I personally ever do it, no. But as Chis Rock once said… “I don’t condone what he did…. but I can understand it.”

I look at it from the car’s point of view. The 375 is sitting in the Ferrari Factory in glorious condition hoping upon hope that she is not forced to go back into the hands of her abusive former owner. The fact is that the "thieves" took much better care of the car in all respects and there is no disputing that. Mr. Swalter seemed to really be interested in saving the car too. I don't know, but you can bet if i liberated the Mona Lisa from the side of your outhouse you would have a fight on your hands from me to get it back and hang it there again.

It is still a shame that the original parts are not yet united with the car. Maybe one day….

 

Well said that man!

Francis

 

To Illustrate my point in the above post, look at how Kleve stored this car! And look at the condition it was in earlier in Kelve's ownership history. Then look at what it looked like AFTER Kleve destroyed it. In the fist photo is does not look too bad and all of the front body work looks saveable. By the time it arrived at the restoration shop of the "thieves" it looks like Kleve used it for a barbeque pit and pushed it around with a bulldozer!

And finally, look what those horrible thieves did to it! (bravo!) And now the Kleve camp wants to cash in on the long term extraordinary efforts of all others that busted their collective tails trying to fix the damage done to the car by Kleve and punish these "thieves" for what they did to that poor car. They should have taken their $650,000 and been grateful they got anything.

I may not have the most popular opinion out here about this car, but I am hopefully not alone.
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Hear, hear!

A well constructed and balanced post Karguy.

John

 

...+1!!Very wise words!