How is there not a proper bill of sale or email of that nature? Simply stating Date Seller or agent Buyer Ferrari 400 Vin Colour Any particulars Full price Tax How could there be any ambiguity with a car purchase? We have all bought cars, its a pretty straight forward procedure.
You also get a Used Vehicle Information Package from the seller if deal is private. The seller has to provide this. It is amazing that 3 experienced car guys wouldn't dot the i's and cross the t's on a basic car sale, two of whom have sold and bought more than a few cars in Ontario. Gerrit
You are absolutely spot on. Management of expectations is the mark of a true professional -- the shop doing the work appears to have failed miserably in this respect.
From my point of view there's no need to inspect your receipts. I believe what I've read, I believe what my eyes have seen, and there's no question in my mind that the finished product is of questionable quality.
Just continuing the documentation..... From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: B P 9 Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 02:46:43 +0000 Time to finish-up the exterior..... - (0376) The scarred, but painted bumpers are already established, but afterwards, there's the reassembly of those, and related parts. Are those side pieces supposed to be shimmed to have about equal side-to-side reveal, and to mate better with a centered bumper, by chance? Image Unavailable, Please Login You can't see them from this angle, but there are cracks similar to those shown in...... - (0445) ......this closer pic of the driver's side. Someone REALLY wanted that light to fit in there, or used it for a step before the light was in. Image Unavailable, Please Login Bodywork was done in so many ways, in so many areas of this car prior to painting, but the recesses for the running lights/signals weren't cleared so the lights would fit after more paint thickness was added. I suspect that the prior two colors, and their related thicknesses, are still under the new paint where the lights need to seat, rather than creating the big protrusion at the top/overhang at bottom. - (0448) At this point, I'm not even sure of what part to think is out of alignment in this view. Image Unavailable, Please Login - (0447) Another crack, at the front of the passenger-side door, in the rocker panel. Image Unavailable, Please Login - (0450) Passenger door hinge jamb, same sub-Maaco/Earl Sheib cut-in (red showing) and prep-work (sprayed the rubber/grommets for the wiring, not even bothering to mask with tape) as the driver's side in BP1. Image Unavailable, Please Login Also, no idea what the clanging is in the right front fender/engine bay area, when the passenger door is closed. Next, going inside....... ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, As a couple of those appear now, after a half-dozen wipe-downs to get the dust off, but the finer stuff is into the cracks now. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Bloody hell, it looks awful. Is it rust that's forming around the hinges? I feel so sorry for you -- it's clear that you were expecting to derive some pride of ownership, yet the car falls way short of the mark. Sorry, my comments aren't intended to add to your misery, but I know how I'd feel if I were in your shoes.
For posterity outside of the ebay thread, some of those, and other views not afforded by the 24 pic limit in an auction. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login 571 Image Unavailable, Please Login 572 That's post-paint trauma to the new paint. The void created in the straight section above the curve by sliding the curved trim piece downward is just right for holding a credit card. Image Unavailable, Please Login 575 An idea of the view when getting in (though it's from a little bit forward perspective), not just the paint over the old cracks, but the "perfect headliner" in an imperfect pose. Image Unavailable, Please Login 579 Image Unavailable, Please Login 629 That's painted-over cracks, filled by dust/grime. I ain't hitting that with a power washer to dislodge it.....so I could fill it with spackle, maybe? No. And yeah, it's almost as bad on the passenger side. The dark lines directly under the edge of that bottom window trim is actually a 2-layer deep chip, painted over. You can feel the layers clearly when you run your fingernail into it. Patented Maaco tape line....... Image Unavailable, Please Login 577 Now we know what a "clean bumper" looks like, for future reference. Image Unavailable, Please Login 583 Just so no one thinks the front got all of the "burning" attention from the buffer, here's the RR corner, just like the LR corner. Gotta spread the love around the car. Image Unavailable, Please Login 591 Smallest burn of the flock, and every corner has at least one. What was chant? Oh yeah.......... "Done by an Expert.........Done by an Expert......" Imagine if there hadn't been one around to make sure........
Who can guess the previous color??? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Image Unavailable, Please Login 592 Image Unavailable, Please Login 589 I learned very quickly to be careful of which way I wiped the dust off.....after all, I don't want to get it fully wet - it might start some rust somewhere...... Image Unavailable, Please Login 562 ....or shrink, in funny ways and mess up the lines and openings so carefully finished during all of that body work.... Image Unavailable, Please Login 563 Before anyone asks, that's not reddish-orange paint in either of those pics. Just Professionalism. This car really has not been wet, other than the quick sprinkle at James' shop, for reasons already posted, and is stored in fully-enclosed spaces. Image Unavailable, Please Login 640 What a Combo Pack of "WTF?!" we have here: new paint, notched metal, rust, crud, and the end of a gasket that's just flopping around in there, and an odd absence of red paint. I don't think it was supposed to mount that way....... Image Unavailable, Please Login 621 ....but, congratulations ! ! ! You did it ! ! TWICE ! ! <whispering> . . . "Done by an Expert.........Done by an Expert......" And just for fun, the classic "The, uhhhhhhhh, shipping company did all that; it wasn't like that at alllllllll ! ! !" Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 08:03:46 -0700 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: B P 13 To: [email protected] good morning Kurt, all the e-mailed pictures have been sent to the appropriate party's...and the discussions have begun as of this morning... but everybody is just receiving them this morning because it was a long weekend here with everybody off either yesterday or Friday...or both. i only started sending out the pics after i knew i had received all of them, which i believed i had on Saturday, so i sent out messages yesterday. i confess, in some of the pics it's really, really difficult to see the issue you are describing...but i'm doing my best to get my point across to those involved. i assure you, there are some marks on the car that were not there when we delivered the car... and no mention of them was made on the shipping paperwork... but, yes, as my guys have confirmed to me since, certain areas were touched up for reasons that were not their responsibility...the areas on the bumpers for example. i need a couple of days with this to get answers to you questions, so that i can figure out what to needs to be done here... brett From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: B P Confirmation on Shipping Papers Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:33:53 +0000 Brett, The pre-shipping inspection sheet notes the damage already present at drop-off, but not the incorrect installations, as the inspector would only be aware of these if he was very familiar with the 400 series, and the instructions regarding which materials were to be used where. The sheet is still heavily marked. I have confirmed that the procedure is that you signed-off after the notated inspection. I've been trying to get even an answer at the shop, reaching only the answering machine, but no return call - only this email. This obviously causes me concern. Kurt [size=+1]O RLY?[/size] Image Unavailable, Please Login In full size, it really looks like a Chuck E Cheeze placemat after a birthday party, where several crayons died. True Character is starting to emerge. NOW, let's step inside..........
It's pretty well documented here that your car looks like crap. It's also pretty clear that you and the shop didn't have the same understanding of your expectations, shame on you both. None of us here, except perhaps Dave who won't share, know what was discussed before work commenced. The sarcastic tone of your posts grows tiresome.
I expect it was the base purchase price against which taxes were paid. Surely there's no State/Provincial taxation department that would need to see the shipper's vehicle condition document?
+1! Generally, Customs wants to see the sales receipt + transportation. For example: If you're exporting a used car to the Caribbean (where maintenance is not that great), you'll want to get the engine, suspension, tires, etc. sorted out before shipping it overseas. If you just bought the car, show the sales receipt; if you owned the car for some time, then declare a reasonable 'book' value...and that's it! One would have to be exceptionally crazy to show all the restoration slips!! Unless this goes to F-Chat Court, it should remain private. The evidence 'had' already grown to overwhelming proportions. Maybe it's time to close the case??
I'm really curious... There isn't much room between the mufflers & the floorpan, some space should be maintained for heat & vibration isolation... what's the reason??
I noticed that, too, and figured that the $100K was just to cover a possible total loss by the shipper. I was taxed on the second purchase price of $24K. Ground clearance - My area has developed a real fondness for speed humps and deferred road maintenance.
This less about "trying the case", and more about "shining a spotlight" as an FChat Public Service. And a little venting. Besides, we still haven't properly ventured inside yet, specifying email in-hand. I try to keep it as entertaining as informative, as these are issues that pop up in any project, automotive or not, no matter how much is detailed in writing.
It is apparent that Brettski has wisely decided not to participate in this tedious psychodrama. If Kurt's goal is to smear Brettski's business and to prevent fellow F-Chatters from patronizing it (or, if they nonetheless decide to patronize it, to warn them not to repeat Kurt's mistakes), then it's mission accomplished. If the goal is to set up two men side-by-side for the forum members to decide who is the more honorable man, this thread is at best a waste of time and at worst a complete failure. Kurt's conduct has long since passed out of the realm of the honorable. If he had succinctly stated his case, with objective evidence presented objectively, that would have been one thing. But the constant tedious childishness of his presentation is ultimately self-defeating. Time to move on.
A wee bit I plan to. You bringing the 400i? After your comment in another thread, I really want to hear yours. "honorable" is in the eye of the beholder, especially when on hasn't put a dime into the result. I've earned, and paid for, the right to be as pissed as I want to be, having not just paid for this, but tried for nearly half a year to get some resolution beyond "not my fault, it didn't leave here like that, you really have something rare and special there at a good value". "Childish" is getting caught, cookies still in-hand, and saying "These aren't cookies, and I didn't take them". The majority of what has, and will be, posted has been direct Copy/Paste of the emails, as I tried, with more success at some times than others, to retain a sense of humor about it, since I was expecting Brett to "step up" in a meaningful way that would fix this, not some negligible way to make me go away and accept what I got. If I lose my humor, I may explode, and I've had enough sleepless nights and gut-wrenching days about this. On a "Pissed-Off Scale" I'm still at about 9.9, and I've calmed down considerably. You are always free not to follow along, if you choose, but the information will be out there for reference. There will be a separate thread in a year or so when I re-restore this car to where it should be right now, showing as much as possible of the insides of a proper restoration, including as much how-to, where-to-find, and don't-do-THIS! stuff as we run across in the process. I was planning on doing this for the Boxer when time allowed, but Newman has filled that void very nicely, going well-beyond where I did on #42849.
Kurt you might remember that I told you there was going to be a backlash from the Fchat community if you presented this in the way you said you were going to. Here you are seeing just the start of that backlash. It won't get better for you. Those who actually read through all the posts have figured out what happened here. Now you've got a right to say what you want but you've moved well past the point of being productive on this. You're starting to make yourself look bad. Just my 2 cents which you haven't listened to yet, but I'm just saying........
lol Ain't that the truth?! Iirc, I measured around 4" ground clearance to the mufflers & I don't think you could pick up more than an inch by pushing them up almost tight to the floorpan. That's on my injected one. I'm pretty sure the 400's & 412's are identical in this respect but not positive. You could stand to gain more if you pimp that ride shock-wise, & even a little off-road action. It's actually good to see that you two can put this aside & still want to meet. It appears you guys have a few things in common; horses, ranches, F-cars, etc..
Oh heck yeah. I like Kurt. I don't think he is handling this situation correctly but what does that have to do with anything? We all have our own way. You'll notice all through this I've never once said anything negative about Kurt as a person, only about how he is dealing with this one particular situation.
Point taken. There is no other way to bring this into the open, though. I would have appreciated this prior to engaging Brett, but nothing was out there, though I'm now aware of several who are still quiet about it. As I quoted someone earlier, "Only the bad shops would say FerrariChat has become horrible because of the efficient exchange of information." I strongly agree with this. One of the reasons I still want to show some of the inside shots, if not C&Ping the relevant B P 9-13 emails themselves, was to illustrate that even when there was email in-hand regarding which materials were specifically to be used where, they were disregarded, and this is far from just about the deplorable body/paint work. The follow-ups just paint a clearer picture of the Character of the Expert who let this thing out of his shop with his approval, as he deflects and dances for months. In deference to your advice, I'll post just what's necessary to illustrate that, and leave it there, unless there is more call for other members to see more.....or I get overwhelmed by anger enough again. My position is clear enough, as is the $92K result of a year's work and waiting, sitting in the garage.
He also has a very cool car that you guys don't know about. He showed it to me last year when we had a beer together one evening. We both laughed when we realized it would have fit in the bed of my big ranch truck that I was driving that night. I just wish I'd gone for a ride in it.
