400i Series 2 5-speed on eBay - s/n 50679

Sam-

We to me these are classic cars- They are future collectible that are currently in that nether region between used cars and collectibles. Given the styling, four seats and (mostly) auto transmission, they will never be expensive- but I would think really fine examples will be double or triple current values in another 10-15 years.

To sort this car out, even with a good independant shop is going to require $15-$20K to sort the transmission- With the mileage I'm going to assume it needs a complete rebuild. ANY Ferrari that is not running is not running for a reason- the "Ran when Stored" thing always turns out to be a lie. I think you could drop somewhere between $10K-$30K JUST making it run reliably... then you have all sorts of cosmetic issues that I think most Ferrari owners would want to address.

Maybe I'm different- i don't like these cars because they are the cheapest Ferraris right now- God knows mine were not cheap to buy or to maintain- I like them because I like them, period. I guess there are people who are quite content driving rusty Ferraris with bubbling paint and cracked glass and cracked leather and black smoke coming from the rusty tailpipes... god bless them. Just not for me.

A Ferrari is a special thing- super low production hand made cars with the ultimate history- and I just think these cars should be treated with a sense of respect- even a lowly 400.

 

Wait until you price the gears themselves for a 5-speed gearbox. The cheap one is still over $1k.

 

Good day Jay,

For the most part I agree with you... However, remind me not to go to the same garage you go to... $15K to $20K to sort the transmission? Maybe I am out of whack, but this seems exceptionally high to me. Indeed, the synchros, gears, etc are pricey, but I cannot imagine the price being this high unless one was to replace every item (whether it is worn or not). I hope Brett will comment on this, as they have done a number of 5-sp rebuilds and so his exposure to the rebuild costs should be pretty accurate. Secondly, remember that there are some that have the skills and resources to service (and or fabricate whatever) there cars themselves and so the overall cost (i.e. out of pocket) may be a lot more reasonable. To me it is just sad to see a car that looks solid (does not appear to be a rust bucket) to be considered a basket case and worthless.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day Dave,

Indeed I have heard about the pricey transmission internals. However, at this point one does not know what the transmission really needs to be sorted... gears, synchros... maybe a diff too? Who knows for sure... and there could be other items too (cylinder heads, etc). My original point was that the car could be "salvageable" for the right person for the right price... where that price is going to be will depend upon the person and their skills/resources.

Cheers,

Sam

 

There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Ferrari.

 

i agree...$15-20K struck me as very high...but i assumed Jay meant everything in the box would be done.

we've done a bunch of gearboxes from this series and, recently, the 365 GT that proceeded it, but we've always had pretty good luck where reusable parts were concerned...

but if you had to do everything, then Jay's number could be a reality...these parts aren't getting any easier to find and those that have them know it.

obviously, you'd need to see what was going on in there to really know what was going on in there...but, chances are, the labour wouldn't represent the lion's share of the rebuild invoice.

 

Good day All,

I just checked the ad and it says the car is no longer for sale... Did someone here buy it?

Cheers,

Sam

 

What makes a 400 "lowly"?
I don't get it.
Greg

 

Misconceptions are the only thing I can think of. How many people with a bad opinion of these cars have driven one that is correct? I have a feeling a very small percentage.

 

Oh boy...and I leave for Palm Springs in the morning.....a little detour? Hmmmmmm......

 

Yup...confirmed, the car is sold. Not sure what they got for it.

 

Somewhere close to $19,000 by this:
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Hi everyone,
I have been reading this thread about 50679 with great interest, and I feel that I should settle some of the speculation in this thread; this car is a very good, low mileage 5 speed 400i, with a solid engine that runs very well, and a full history file. The main cable from the battery was loose, which is the only reason it didn't start. The starter was replaced a while back and was in good shape. The engine is very strong, starts immediately, and runs perfectly. Most of the car is original factory paint, and the interior is in good shape with no rips or tears. This is a great Ferrari!

 

Congratulations and welcome to the board here! While I might disagree slightly with you that 74K miles is "low mileage", I find it very interesting that you were able to fix some of the starting problems so easily and cheaply. Were you able to inspect or have inspected, the car before the purchase or did this turn out to be a lucky buy?

I would love to hear more about your purchase adventure!

 

Are you the owner, or is the car for sale (or both)?

 

Hi, I am the owner, and in general all of my cars are always for sale. I have too many cars right now, and I just found another one that I want to buy... ;-) I did not inspect the car before buying, but I did speak with the seller at some length. Virtually all of these 400's were gray market cars, imported as "used" cars, so they would wind 15-20,000 miles onto the odometer when they were new in order to get them into the country. In my view this car is a fairly low mileage car that has used fairly regularly. It is better to use them than for them to sit for long periods without use. I do have a full history file showing mileage and service throughout its life, so it was reasonably well maintained, though I am re-doing some of the work because I am fussy. It was delivered new to a dealer in France, brought to the U.S. and lived its whole life in California. It has only been driven on the average less than 3000 miles a year. (I have been known to do that is a weekend, albeit a long weekend) It is mostly factory original paint, not a speck of rust anywhere, no tears in the leather. With some guidance from some folks here I was able to pull the starter out (a painful and challenging job) and clean it up, tighten everything down and the car fired right up after that. What a fabulous sound these cars make! I am going through it now checking everything and doing whatever the car needs, and doing it right. Zero to 60 in 6.9 seconds, top speed of 150+ miles per hour and seats that a wife will sit in for hours on end. Daytona performance for 1/8 the price. What's not to love? I have always loved these 400's and I would still like to find a 5 speed carb car.
By the way if anyone has an early 250 Spider in your barn please send me a message...

 

Sorry- That is total and utter BS...

Remember- you're on the 400i forum... we know a thing or two.

ALL USA 400/412 are grey market. Practically all were imported brand new. Since they were not officially imported the US classified them as used cars regardless the mileage. My 412 was first titled in LA with 48 miles on the clock.

I think our question is are you the SELLER from the ebay ad or did you PURCHASE the car on the ebay ad. Either way looks like a decent car that deserves to be on the road. Post some good crisp pictures- we always enjoy seeing more of these cars!

 

Ahem, miles were not "wound on the clock" for importation.
I'd excuse this as misinformation were it not for the resurrection of a very old thread and hyperbole to perhaps mitigate some negative comments regarding this car from someone interested in peddling it.
Daytona performance? Have you driven either?

 

Yes, I did buy the car. I found this thread after I bought the car, and was surprised at how wrong was all of the speculation here. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the "winding on of miles" story is wrong too. As far as the performance is concerned, I guess that's all relative; Drive a Honda Civic, or a Mazda pickup, or my '53 Chev, or for that matter almost any car that costs $20,000 and then a few tenths of a second here or there between this Ferrari and that Ferrari pale, and fade into a big smile from ear to ear. Yes the Daytona is slightly faster, so is my M3, and my 348. My 308GTB makes similar numbers but is a whole different feel, but I do love the 400, and I honestly think today's 400 prices are ridiculously low for the level of performance, the pedigree, and the mechanical music they that they make. I have paid more for a completely rusted out 280SL needing a full restoration, and its performance is no where near any Ferrari (well maybe a 166). So, for the same money a Chevy Cobalt, or a 15 year old pickup truck, or an original paint, rust free, 310HP Ferrari 400i, hmmm, let me think.... There is a direct line of engineering descendency between these V12 engines, and this comes through loud and clear in how they run. You are more than welcome to bring your Daytona over to my place on a sunny morning so that we can drive them back to back, and then let's make a pot of coffee, have some lunch and compare our driving impressions.

 

here's a picture...
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Welcome Frrerinut. Thanks for shariing.

I've heard the stories as well about winding miles on. In the old days I don't think each episode was conducted the same. And I know there were entire years of old days and that they happened in many places with different people. Therefore I am receptive to the belief that this may have indeed occured. In fact, I believe I may have seen things that support this.

I also know that the more times things happen, the more chances there are that things may happen differently once or twice. Just my .02.

Again, welcome to F-chat. Looks like a nice car.

 

Wow that's SOO great that the car is sound- It's great to save these cars, because so many get parked behind the garage when the Fuel injection acts up and they rot away to nothing.

I think our point at the time was that the car was an unknown quantity, and there are always a few known examples around in the low $30ks... And at $20K you add a good service, some paint work and interior freshening and you're well into the $30Ks before you know it.

Post some good crisp pictures of the car- We're excited to have it back amongst the Ferraristi!

 

I have finally gotten some decent pictures of my Grigio/Rosso 400i 5 speed. It is mostly sorted now. I have put a fresh set of Michelin TRX's on it. It starts and runs extremely well and makes all kinds of power. The transmission shifts well cold and perfectly when warm. I have been driving it daily for the last couple of months, weather permitting, as we have had a very dry and warm spring, and I have really been enjoying it.
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That car is beautiful. I love the design- so clean and crisp, just looks fantastic.

Cheers-

 

Did it come with the 412 front lens?