So yesterday wasn’t Judgment Day- Here’s another prediction- 308/328 Future Values

Hmmm, I think I'll put my GT4 up for auction at the next Villa d'Este with a reserve of 500k.

GOOD post!!

It also backs up an old Top Gear theory. A car will become a classic when it at least ticks two out the following three boxes:

It should perform
It should be beautiful
It should be rare

All three are also in your list.

 

Nice post and I totally agree. Whether the rest of the world totally agrees...well, only time will tell.

 

Agree. There is a "happy middle i think price wise: Around $25,000-30000. Many of us can afford a toy in that price range, Some can afford several .

I have been ranting and commenting on various cars( not just 308's) about one thing: Be aware of what your "customer" can buy for your price.

price your GT4, or carb 308 too high, and buyers will be looking for or at other cars. i do this all the time. I wanted another euro QV. QV GTB's are rare. All the euro QV GTS cars I looked at were too needy. all of them are still for sale, months later. i bought a 328 that needed a major and 4 tires, for less than $30,000. Fun car the 328, not as pretty as a euro spec QV, but its fun.

I want a Modern Maserati. Perhaps a real 930 Turbo also. No way are the nosebleed GT4 and carb 308s going to compete for my money, when I can get a 2006 Maserati Gransport or a damn nice Porsche 930 for under / around $40,000 all day long .


i dislike the 348/355. The 360 has is own set of problems with clutch life, camshaft variators, and the like. suffice it to say, cars made after 1989 or so have too much special computer crap on them.

So the old 308 series, has a distinct advantage: people know the body style, people can work on the cars at home, and they are plentiful enough to buy what you want. The modern Maserati I want is a paradox: known for short clutch life, finicky electrics, heater cores that blow out and cost $4000 to replace. But I still want to try one. none of the other modern computer cars appeal to me at all. hell, I would be better off waiting until 2013 when the GranTurismos are cheaper, and buy one of those .


Back on topic: they only made 410 lambo Jalpas over a 6 year run. yet they are not valuable, expensive or popular. They made more Miuras, and look what those are worth. Jalpas are not pretty, famous, nor are they "good cars" ( had two of the things. ) So market pricing does in a way dictate the supply/demand value of a car.

My 208 Dino was neat. very rare, not valuable. Slowest Ferrari made, smallest v8 ever made in mass production. Hated the car. Sold it to Argentina, and glad to be rid of it.

I think the 308/328 series will "hang on" yes there are some good cars worth big bucks, to some buyers. They can have them. I dont do car shows, I detest "concours" with a bunch of wine and cheese nerds complaining about niggling things that are not correct.

i just want to drive a damn Ferrari as much as reasonable before I die. Had 7 and counting.

I love the carb GTB's, had 2 so far. But the Qv and 328 are more " everyday" cars. Very little tinkering required. i think you will be able to buy a nice 308 whatever for between $25-35k fr many years. Cheaper cars will be there with needs, and are not always a good buy with parts prices the way they are, some will be prices higher, but this is about selling the cars in a reasonable amount of time, to buy another car. Dreamers who price the cars too high for a sucker, or because they really dont want to sell dont count.

I have had a bunch of cars. The most i ever paid for one was $35k. Sold the same car for $35k, and lost some money given the fact I did some work on it, shipping, insurance ect. the rest of my cars I get for the magical $20000-30000 range. Keep them a few months to a year, sell them for what I have in them ( they sell fast) and buy another for the same money.

This way you *almost* drive a Ferrari, Porsche whatever: FOR FREE !

I would hate to loose all that money on a new car. I recently saw a post on a Maserati board where a guy bought a Quatroporte for $82,000. 7 months later he sold it for $42,000 and it did not have alot of miles on it.

What the hell is wrong with people that they dont see this " depreciation" enemy and avoid it!


Stay with the 308's if they check the box for you. They are slow, but they are fun. I dont want a Jap car, or motorcycle, and I am done with muscle cars.

I am happy with my slow old Ferraris.

 

I voted yes!!!




PDG

 

I think nearly all Ferraris where they made several thousand or more of them are going to struggle to achieve the sort of classic values that the Dino and early V12s have enjoyed. For me, my 308 is an inflation proof store of value and source of enjoyment, and I hope for nothing more.

 

I believe that 308 prices in the US will trend up because the weaker US dollar will boost offshore demand. Internet sales have become an accepted selling medium that accelerates the trend. I was in a LA-area collectible car dealer last month looking at a 308 and he reported was selling many more older Porsches to European buyers than locally. The following week that 308 was shipped to Canada.

A similar trend occurred for American muscle car sales to Japanese buyers in the 80s.

 

True, and I think most people think the 308/328 has aged well. The more I see these cars, the more I think the 308/328 actually improved on the 246 in some respects (although the 246 came from the pre-smog, pre-electronic era and will always be a rung higher on the "classic" scale.)

Agreed, plus the fact that few people drive these cars makes the perceived rarity higher.

With regard to parts availability, 308/328 values would probably rise if Ferrari looked after its older models that way Porsche and (especially) Mercedes Benz do. Having spent some time recently in the vintage Porsche world, I can say that absolutely every part on the 356/early 911 is obtainable at a reasonable price, often from Porsche. You can restore a rustbucket with a seized engine and turn it into a concours queen or track-ready competition car without going bankrupt. NLA stuff has been reproduced to very high standards. And Merc is reportedly even better at it.

Ferrari does not provide as well for the 308/328, which is the Achilles' Heel for these cars.

Very true, although recognize that there are collectors who are satisfied with the occasional jaunt down the country lane. I and probably many others don't hold classic sports cars to the same performance standards as a daily driver-type car. 60 mph in a Ferrari 550 is a snooze, but 60 mph in a Speedster around a gradual bend feels like race day.

Also, it's pretty easy to rebuild many of those engines to deliver more power than they did back in the day, while doing nothing more radical than using modern internals that have better tolerances and hardening. For the old Jags, there are ways of improving the notorious cooling, so reliability can be made better than it was. (And of course cell phones today are improved over the ones from the '50s... )

The tradeoff tends to be safety and convenience. 308/328s had shoulder belts, crumple zones, collapsible steering columns and -- on US cars -- side impact protection, which are probably the most important features. When you get into a '60s E-Type, '50s Porsche or '50s XK, anything over 80 mph can get scary. You have to drive them more or less like you would a motorcycle -- constantly defensive, looking for SUV drivers with cell phones pressed up to their ears. There is a fairly small population of 'collector cars' that you'd feel comfortable driving on a modern freeway, and ultimately I could see the 308/328 joining that group. They're in the sweet spot between modern and classic.

Amen. I would add that simplicity can also make a car more fun to drive. While I will always be a 308/328 fan, in general I've found that my interests are now more with the pre-1974 stuff. But compared to the computerized nightmares that Ferrari, Porsche, BMW and Merc are churning out these days, the 308/328 is comprehensible.

The first real reward of simplicity is that you can use the car, knowing that whatever breaks or wears out is infinitely rebuildable/replaceable. The odometer reading on a 1970 Merc SL, 1958 Porsche, etc., is (except in rare time capsule cases) not all that important. You could probably rebuild the engine on either for the price of a major service on a 355.

The second reward is that simple never goes out of style. Early F1 gearboxes (355, 360...), early ABS, motorized seat belts, LCD instrument displays, first gen airbags, OBD, etc. -- all of it becomes a liability over time.

The final reward is that there is less stuff to break. There was a Top Gear segment a while back in which JC takes a Merc 280SL for a spin and starts listing the features -- cigarette lighters, windscreen wipers -- and not much else. Beginning in the '90s, the list of crap that will fail starts to get longer and more expensive. Amazingly enough, it is possible to drive places without a lane departure warning, sat nav screen built into the speedometer binnacle, digital climate control, etc.

I think "iconic" is what you're looking for. Like the E-Type and 911, the 308/328 is certainly a memorable and recognizable car. The (awful) Countach is also holding value well in the market.

Here we differ. A '73 Porsche 911 was made when I was under 10 and lived in the salted wintry automotive wasteland of northern Ohio. I didn't drive one till a few years back, and when I did realized it ranked right up there with the '80s machines (308/328, for example) that I grew up admiring. It's just a timelessly brilliant car --beautifully built, simple, truly lightweight (about 1000 lbs less than a modern 911/997). For a daily driver I'd take the 997 for its safety, comfort, Bluetooth, iPod integration, etc., but for fun factor I'd take the 911. Also, I believe a '73 911S in stock form would outrun even a 328 -- contemporary 0-60 times put them very close.

Likewise on the 356s (I bought one in 2009) -- a car that went out of production before I was born. My first drive was in someone else's 1961 356B coupe, and at the time I would say it was the coolest car I had ever driven -- you can hear every piston movement, watch the dials in the chromed gauges, smell the oil, feel the gear linkage, feel the (skinny) tires working. And if anything the build quality (Porsche had acquired Reutter, but the cars were still welded up by hand) was even better than the 911s.

Sports cars that were around when I was kid were the Porsche 924/944/928, Datsun 280ZX, Ferrari 308, Corvette C3/C4, Mitsubishi whatever the hell it was called, Toyota Celica/Supra, Mazda RX7 first/second gen, etc. Except for the 308, all of these can rust away. As I get older and can afford what I want automotively, I'm more drawn to timeless, quality cars than than most of the crap from the '80s.

Agreed, 308 and especially the 328 have a good reputation. Looking at the whole 308-458 range, and including the V12s, the 308/328 are the best of the lot and probably the handsomest.

I like those Maseratis as well, but there is a reason they are getting to be so cheap. They will never be classics (no upside) and very few people who can afford to buy one on the secondary market are going to be keen on dumping $4K on a heater core or maintaining their Clutch of the Month Club membership.

I suspect the 308/328 are the last of the Ferraris (other than supercars of the 288 GTO/F40/F50/Enzo series) that will hold value over time, because the upkeep is reasonable, the visual impact is unique and they feel like real machines -- in fact when the 328 was being made it was almost anachronistic already with it's "wait for 2nd gear when it's cold" gearbox and manually adjusted seats.

 

Dang...my 87 Sunbird GT non turbo failed the 3rd commandment. And the 2nd, and the 4th, and........

 

i was once concerned about the re sale value of my 89 328,,because i thought i would someday sell it., for lets say a 355,,,well its 12 years going now,,,and the value of my car makes absolutely no difference to me ,,,because ill never ever sell it,,,no other car is going to give me that seat of your pants,,,go cart ,,with no buffer between the steering wheel and the street,,feel,,,,period,,,,yes the newer Ferraris are better and faster,,and no doubt ..that i now want to get an F430 someday,,,but not at the expense of selling my 328...when its 80 degrees outside and the road is warm and sticky..my P ZERO S really allow ,my car to stick like glue to the road,,and its a very addictive all around driving experience,,,that i dont think i could ever replicate with any other car,,(other than the 3x8 s)..even with 88k miles,,my suspension gives me such good feedback,,,that perfect 4 wheel slides / drifts happen with the upmost confidence..i sincerly believe that God gave all Ferrais a soul !!!..lol...anyways..im rambling,,,,i hope everybody is having a great weekend,,,

 

I know, and I agree. I want a GranSport, but I may wait as a GranTurismo is a MUCH better Maserati.

Still I totally concur that the pre 90 cars are the ones to have, as all the computer crap really will become an issue as the cars age. Truth be told, i am not interested in Testarossa's at all because of the bad connectors, and questionable transaxle issues they can suffer from.


Look at a 1989 930, and a 1989 328. Both cars are like top tier for thier era. I think one of each would be a great deal for a driver. (Not counting the Anniversary Countach.)


I can break a 308 or 328 and afford to fix it. With the newer cars, not so much.

Never understood why the hell the 206/246 cars are so " exclusive " and popular. Neat, pretty cars, but that Fiat v6 does not mean that much to me to justify its price.

I wish they made the 288 GTO body more common. Its the ultimate 80's icon to me, over all others.

Alas, its Totally unobtainable for me.

 

For me the 246 is pure auto heaven and every last penny they are worth is understandable.

My 308GT4 is a tiny slice of that magic, and that is why I love it...much more than the Ferrari badge.

 

Agreed.

Frankly, I rather detest what that prancing horse badge stands for today. Total, 200% commercial, arrogant rip-off.

Happy that mine is a Dino...

 

I agree that the 308 / 328 range will increase in value. its just the time that it will take. the Dino was basically an old car in 1980, and relatively cheap by Ferrari standards, when the 308 came out. Back then the 308 was SUPER exotic compared to the run of the mill cars around back then... kind of like seeing an Enzo today! today the cars are bigger, and less glamorous... the 458 is a very pretty car, but still is a big car.

the 308 - 355 series were still sports cars... you had some luxury in them, but really they were made for fun driving / posing. I like mine for driving. I was just up in the mountains a couple of weeks ago, and it was fun! and that is the key!

My dad has a 356 that he bought new back in 1960.... those cars went thru a long downward price trend and perked up around the early 1990's and then went back down, now look at them, a good 356 with 100K miles is $25 - 40k, Speedsters, are almost 200K! for cars that cost $3K back in the day. ( Ok Caddilacs cost $2K back then too... but a 59 Ferrari was more like $10 -$12K that was most peoples houses back then.)

 

The view from here in the UK would be this:
Top-notch 328s have already exceeded low-end 355/360 in selling price and are continuing to increase. But the situation is a complex one.
In theory it should be a sellers market but there is a snag. Almost all buyers will get a PPI done and most buyers want to see that PPI clean. As they are looking for a toy, they would rather buy nothing than a car which might have issues. Most of the specialists who do PPIs will err on the side of caution, for example any sign of a front valance out of alignment by 5mm from the body will show up as "possible previous accident damage". The buyer then filters out the "possible" and runs away. Cars often come up as "possible incorrect mileage" even though the inspector has no direct evidence of this.
This is the reason why the same cars have been on the market for months. Buyers are fussy and the number of cars left in existence which sail through PPI are tiny. Only these few cars command, and get, the high sale prices. The others will sit on the market with prospective buyers PPI'ing them and walking.
The irony is, most of these cars are probably fine. If a buyer were to come along who didnt PPI he would likely be perfectly satisfied with the car. But then he would have a problem when eventually selling....
The upshot of all this is, the market is defined by the specialists who do PPIs.

 

I suspect that will happen in the US as well, but probably more as a function of the computer-era cars' obsolescence than any broad advance in 328 values.

I think you're correct about PPI and values, by the way. Problem is that while something small like a broken vent switch on an old Porsche or Merc might set you back $100, the same on a Ferrari 328 might require you to scour the world in the slight hope of paying $1000 for the last one on a shelf somewhere.

 

Pete Lovely just passed away, among the vehicles was a fibreglass 308GTB........

 

wait... wait... ya gotta add 45,000miles to the speedo. still though not bad for a '72 V-8
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Love those. Mercedes used to make everything else look like a compromise.

 

+1 Their early dash and gauge configs were brilliant. I love the pagoda convertibles. They will be even more classic in the years to come as they are just incredibly easy to drive yet beautiful. Definitive classic.


Regarding this thread: I love you guys, but I could care less if my 308 goes up in value. The only thing I am interested in would be how the poor souls with 348/355s fair as their prices plummet due to insane servicing costs and how that will affect the market for those models in 10 years.....

 

I'm with you on that - Bullfighter had some fun with me in another thread when I said that as far as I was concerned the resale value of my car was a problem for the future executor of my will.

Maybe of greater interest is the trend in availability of parts. If 308 values trend up, more cars will be restored instead of parted, increasing parts demand while reducing supply and driving parts prices up. (For more common makes, this eventually corrects as people get into the reproduction parts business, but it's not clear that there are enough 3x8 survivors to support an aftermarket much larger than we already have).

An increase in 308 values will also shift the change the makeup of the owners, tending to reduce the number of gearhead/drivers and increasing the number of collectors/curators in the mix. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is depends on where you stand - but without the curator/collector crowd, eventually the 308s will all be gone.
b

 

I was thinking of mentioning to MSD the need for our ignition parts.....

 

Back toooo what I think the original topic was…………I think it all comes down to numbers. When my car 1976 308 GTB was made, Ferrari had only made around 16,873 or so cars. How many road cars are in that number, let’s say 13,000. The best guesstimate I have seen on total production through 2010 is over 170,000 (156,905 through 2007). There are just toooo many Ferrari’s today; thus a 360 for $65k (considering the cost of maintenance) is probably very realistic to someone who does not have $280k for a new 458. Its just comes down tooooo numbers, and they are very BIG numbers.

 

It is, and the Forza predictions of 308s continuing to drop now sound ridiculous. There is almost (?) nothing from the pre-308 era below the $200K mark these days.

And E-Types and 911/930s of that era are now longer a cheaper alternative...