What happened to the suppposed 25 versions of the 512S produced ?

Thanks so much. Fantastic picture on 1026, been staring at it for minutes now.
I have a ton of questions about 1010R, but I guess I will have to let it rest (for now

 

http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/Detail/1004.512S.htm

 

Hi Napolis,
I was confused too for a very long time. To help the general understanding of the 'mess', I am listing a few details from documents and correspondence with Ferrari SpA, records / documents from Herbert Müller Racing and Solar Production, and others. No conclusions, no comments, just facts as I received them:
A) A document from a competitor in 1970/71:
... both Surtees and Schetty reported handling problems with chassis N°1004 at Monza 1000KM April 24, 1970: .....
B) Ferrari SpA letter to me reg. N°1004:
1004 was tested again at Modena 20/05/1970 ; at Monza 26/05/1970 ; at Modena again 03/06/1970
C) Ferrari SpA:
On 09/06/1970, N°1004 was completely disassembled: N°1004 chassis and frame were sold to Garage Francorchamps (as N°1024!!!!)
D) Extensive photo documentation and reports: N°1024 alas 1004 was used during the filming of LeMans w. Steve McQueen as a body panel and upper body frame donor to convert a Lola T70 for the remote controlled crash scene.
E) Solar Production Bill of Sale, Shipping, Importation and Herbert Müller Racing Documents:
Herbert Müller Racing purchases a total of 5 cars from Solar Productions:
N°1008 (paid for by Kistler, sen.); N°1016 (paid for by Heiner Wiesendanger); 1024 alas 1004 (paid for by Herbert Müller-(value $100.-)); 1036 (paid for by Herbert Müller); 1044 paid for by Herbert Müller and Rene Herzog).
F) Ferrari Bills, records and HMR records:
Both 1008 and 1044 are converted at the factory to 'M'.
G) Correspondence from P. Bardinon:
Inquiry about a possible purchase of a Müller 512 for the Bardinon Collection.
H) Müller Documents:
On 71/10/05 Herbert Müller purchases the wreck of 512/M N°1008 from Kistler (Sfrs.20'000) for the still usable mechanicals
I) Ferrari Bills and Shipping documents:
On 71-10-19 Ferrari sells the chassis and body without mechanicals of N°1046 to Herbert Müller Racing for Sfr.7’980.- (Fattura N° 3084/71 and Rimesso N° 23642)
K) Show and Insurance documents:
N°1046 displayed at a Race Car Show in Switzerland without engine and transaxle.
L) Documentation:
Following the show N°1046 is completed with parts from N°1008 and extra parts from Ferrari
M) Correspondence:
On 72-01-31 Müller offers N°1046 to P. Bardinon as ‘NEW CAR, NEVER RACED’ for Sfr. 100’000.- (Approx. US $25’640.-)
N) Correspondence:
In Dec 1976 Müller offers N°1046 as N°1016 to M. Lampe, USA for Sfr. 100’000.- ($40’832.-) - Photos taken by M. Lampe
O) Records and correspondence:
*)1016 alas 1046 sold, and sold on to Klaus Scholtyssek, Dreieich, Germany.
**)A chassis (requiring repair) sold by Müller with some parts.
***)Body panels and wheels and some parts sold by Müller (diff. date) - No record but comment from a restorer: These were for Mason's 1026...
P) Photo Record:
1979 Oldtimer GP Nuerburgring, Klaus Scholtyssek- several dozen photos taken of 1016 alas 1046 by ML.
Q) 1979 Visits in Maranello and correspondence with Ferrari SpA:
The participation of all Scuderia Ferrari 512 cars is edited and confirmed by Dott. Franco Gozzi.
R) Prancing Horse N.59/60 / Phone Calls w. Herbert Müller:
In the first summary of all 512 Cars (PH N.59/60) the author Manfred Lampe assumed that this ‘second’ car using N°1016 could be N°1004, since there was no record of N°1004 anywhere.
S) Photo record comparisons:
Already during the late eighties it becomes apparent that the car with ID N°1016 is not 1016 or 1004. All details at that time point to a car which is a very early Berlinetta, without the FIA required roll bar, without roof ventilation scoop and with the early type hidden hinges. In short, this 1046 is identical to car photographed at the factory in September 1970.
T) Document / Correspondendence from Ferrari SpA:
FERRARI SpA, November 15, 2002 (all as per Ferrari engl. translation):
Ferrari 512 chassis N°1024 - Rimesso n.16655 dated June, 20th 1970:
.....-1024 is PROBABLE a mistake since from our records of Gestione Sportiva it turns out that the chassis together with body, prepared to be sent to Garage Francorchamps was actually the one of the car 1004.......
U) 2006 Interview wit ex Herbert Müller Mechanics:
All recalled the last 512 S Berlinetta they had picked up at Maranello to then make into a 'runner'. They did not remember any Serial Numbers.
V) 2007 Signed Statement from the ex Müller Chief Mechanic:
N°1044 was repaired following the Nürburgring Crash at the Interseries Race. The frame was never replaced.

Napolis, I hope this helps a bit.

 

That is the one at one time owned by Klaus Scholtyssek. I am attaching a card which Scholtysek had sent to me in 1979 identifying it as 1016. For the past ten years or more the car has also been fitted with the standard short tail. In 1995 a legal roll bar already had been added. Since then the roof bubble was added.
I took dozens, yes dozen of pictures down to the last detail in 1995 at the owner's home. It is in my opion the most original, unmolested 'S'. On top of it, it is the only 'S' Berlinetta in existence.
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Very,Very interesting!!

Thanks so much!

 

THE CAR IS VERY REAL! Please check my other mail on ' I am confused..'
This one based on my records started life as N°1046. Sold by Müller as N°1016 (most likely to ease a tax burden...)
Assumed by stupid me in 1980 as the 'lost' 1004, which Ferrari had never sold as 1004.....
In 1995 it still used the tag with number 1016, unfortunately there was and still is another 1016, the ex Wiesendanger car, which was sold via Lukas Hüni CH to the US and converted there to Spider.
Some time in the past a new tag was attached to the above car with n. 1004 (which it is not...)
To the barchetta account.
Some of it is from the P.H.- The Sebring record is wrong! 1004 was never a Spider! Andretti used a Spider at Sebring. The Targa Florio stuff is also wishful thinking by someone.
The owner of the Barchetta site will update in the near future some of the 512 info (as per his note to me).

 

two photos of a 512.......http://www.pixagogo.com/9799224120

 

I think I understand. Should have chassis plate and is really 1046? Please do update Barchetta Site with proper info and record. I thought Sebring/Andretti car was a spyder.

Best and Thanks!

 

Is this the car you saw in the Challenge?I think I took this shot 3 years ago at the BRIC,Road America.

Tom
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Laguna Seca August 2004
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Hi

Yes

 

Yes, that is the point. The Sebring car was a Spider, hence it can't be a Berlinetta with N° 1004 or whatever.

 

What about the car that Stroll is driving in the US HC? People told me at moroso 2006 that he was driving a replica.......but team members said it was the original car...............
Saw 1040 at festival of speed 2000 it was different then (e.g. no bubble in the roof) car today looks too new. Instruments are different and non veglia/borletti.
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on the Modulo:
Those who are regular readers of Cavallino, will know that Marcel Massini collects the chassis numbers of the Ferraris on important events he visits. On the occasion of the first Classic Car Show in Geneva in 2006, he lists the number of the Modulo as "none"

 

I am puzzled. Could someone please shed a bit of light on what these 512 images are?

Is this N°1010 in the process of being modified back to a 512 'M' Berlinetta? Paul Knapfield (owner of 1010) did once mention that he would like to do this in order to be able to compete at the LeMans Classic.

To the best of my knowledge the frame shown is not one of the known 'original' 512 M Berlinetta frames. It is also not one of the US or UK replicas. But the center section of the frame looks identical to the CanAm N°1010 frame. Anyone? Thank you.

 

Or this is 1038R modified or new one made. Just spoke with a collector that a new frame was built through Roelofs (made by Labro?) So I think the frame is completely new.
M. you can call Roelofs or Labro.

Pic of 1010 (original) I took in 2005.
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Keep in mind Pensky/Donohue heavily modified that car and made a fiberglass body for it. I was personally told that later a replica chassis was made for it which strengthened it and made it easier for a bigger driver. The replica chassis was stamped R under the chassis plate. The car was raced in the Ferrari Historics with a replica chassis and a competitor (See 1004/1046 discussion) complained and the original chassis was re installed according to the person who built the replica chassis and later re installed the original one.

As you can see from this entire discussion there is a lot of this going on.

 

It has a chassis # and it at one time had a chassis plate. IMHO this mystery will be solved.

 

Here is a photo at Road America 2 years ago.Atleast I know for sure the other car is real since
Jim Hall did the restoration on it!
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What was it when this was taken (Palo Alto__High School__Concours, circa 1978)? Presumed the replica chassis?
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Not replica. In 1978 R. Harrison still owned the car (without looking into my files) and it was kept at Steve Griswold's. The replica chassis was done some 4 or 5 years ago. It was done always as an 'interim' from what I recall, since the original chassis was not in good shape. And, it was always intended to to restore the original chassis properly and run the car again.
It was difficult for Lawrence Stroll to physically fit into the 512. Some changes were made right after his purchase of the car to the area of the pedal box, the lower side of the IP and contouring of the door and roof. This work was done in Northleach,UK.

 

The replica chassis was done where 1008 and "1046" were reconstructed from the Muller parts. That's also where the photo's of the switched chassis were taken by the person who showed them in protest to The Ferrari Historic Challange people. It should be noted that John H has never concealed any of this and fully published his reconstruction of 1008.

 

Jim's car's are as original as Dino Competizione. They do have a few more miles on them...

 

Thats true.Funny,but some of the fakes are nicer than the real cars.My whole point on the Dino #0834 thread was that I have a feeling the factory swapped #0842 and #0834 chassis plates due to the extreme damage on #0842.They needed to get the hillclimb car ready fast.Just a thought.

 

Thanks, Griswold's shop was like Mecca back then.

Hell, even the shop I worked at (Austin-Healey West in SF) kept several of Sid Colberg's cars in it (he owned the building). Hardly pristine, but his 212 Coupe, 500TR and 750 Monza (rough, engine & brakeless) were sitting around collecting huge amounts of our bodyshop's dust.

I lived a few blocks from Ed Guilbertson and he had a few nice examples in his (home's) garage too; the Sebring 1960 GTclass winning 250 lwb Cal, Harrah's old Lusso & a 275 GTB. He had just bought his 166MM...