What happened to the suppposed 25 versions of the 512S produced ?

There were two 'yellow' cars. 1002 and 1030. Don't know which one you had seen.
I will not start speculating on how many chassis' were made at one time. I am awaiting details on when the chassis / frame for the Modulo show car was delivered to Pininfarina. The other 512 Show Car was NOT built on a 512 chassis.

 

In 1975 I personally saw the chassis plate 1046 among the parts that became:

96/jun - replica offered by John Hajduk's Motorkraft Ltd. for $950,000.-, with original engine, transmission, coda lunga bodywork for Rob Dyson

that were bought from Muller.

 

This yellow 'Long Tail' 512 'S' is a replica and always will be a replica. The Prancing Horse had a very detailed series of articles on this reconstruction. Yes, most mechanical parts used are original 512 S. The chassis is a very well done clone of an original 512, but much improved, using better, stronger materials. But, NOT an original chassis. N°1046 is alive and well, and I have all the documents. N°1008 is not so well, it is officially listed as destroyed. Müller had told me in 1977 that a Austrian Ferrari enthusiast (I have the name) had wanted to buy it. He saw the car, did NOT buy it. According to Müller he then scrapped it. In 1976 it was already gone.
The Prancing Horse was quite clear at the time that these are 'reconstructions'.
Both identities 1046 and 1008 were on Müller cars.
1046 purchased as a new frame and body from the factory, completed by Müller and sold on re-numbered as N°1016 for whatever reason. The original N°1016 was a car maintained by Herbert Müller Racing, but owned by Heiner Wiesendanger. The other car N°1008, was owned by a Kistler, sen. Carpet Manufacturer in Switzerland, and again, he was part of the Müller Team. Müller bought the remains from Kistler sen.,Reichenburg, Switzerland following the Rodriguez crash for Sfrs.20,000. This amount included previous unpaid Müller expenses for maintaining the car. Contract was signed October, 1971.
The listing of the Müller parts which ended up in the USA was compiled (when Herbert Müller was still alive) by a Ferrari specialist in Switzerland for Albert Obrist. The listing included a count of what was missing, or additional, to construct one 512 S and one 512 M. Albert O. owned N°1006 at the time and wanted to construct these 2 replicas.
Who did what regarding the little approx. 1x4cm brass plates (if they came off the original cars) I have no idea. The Müller ex chief mechanic confirmed to me last year that he never was involved in swapping ID plates...
Obrist had an option on the parts, but never bought them. Obrist then ended a few years later with N°1010 the CanAm car. He then had Bob Houghton construct a 512 M REPLICA using the N°1010R. This car is now in the collection of a very well known collector in the UK.
Hope I did not miss anything.

 

Muller included two chassis plates in the parts he sold to JH. I saw them. One was 1046 and the other was 1008. 1x4cm brass plates as you have described. I wonder if the 1046 plate fits the frame of Modulo???

 

I guess the 512S Speciale, the one with the tilting roof, of which you said it was not built on a 512 chassis.....

 

The 1008 plate you saw was NOT authentic. Sorry. I have photos of the 1008 plate on the replica. It was replicated and did NOT use original Ferrari punches. The '0's on 1008 are very slender, while the official Ferrari stencil has a 'rounded 'O', and some other type style differences.
Further, I saw the original plate of 1008 still mounted to part of the frame cut out of the destroyed chassis. This original one was fully CHROME PLATED and in Müller's bookshelves when he was still alive.
To 1046: The same 'could be' true with plate 1046: Müller's ex chief mechanic mentioned to me on my question of swapping IDs: (quote, something like:...impossible to remove from the frame (June 2006)).
And, the 1046 plate real or not, would still never fit or belong to the Modulo. Quite simply: The Modulo could never have been 1046, unless Ferrari sold to cars using that number. 512S N°1046 was still at the factory when the Modulo was already on the show circuit. I also have ALL the Ferrari and Müller bills and documents for 1046. The last G. Florino listing of the 512 cars also shows for N°1046 a simple note: Muller.

 

Very pretty car. Designed by Filippo Sapino while at Pininfarina. The car is now in France.

 

And there is no chassis number for that one?

 

The Chassis in Modulo does look like a real used 512S chassis to me. Ferrari did send it to Pininfarina. No question strange things happened back then. My Dino Competizione was likely built on Ferrari Dino 034 but when Pininfarina built it up into Dino Competizione stamped it 10523 with a chassis plate on the frame and another chassis plate on a panel riveted to panel in the rear which is riveted to the chassis.
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Yes, the car has a number. When I last saw it 30 some years ago, it had no ID plate. But the chassis is a 312P (NOT A 512!) with N°0868.

 

On the Modulo (received by Pininfarina in 1969) some additional info:
Here is what the designer of the Modulo just emailed to me:
.....I can myself be remembered with exactitude only some particular:
The used chassis was USED or probably a MULETTO. The motor was pretended, not working, reported to 5.0 L V12 S,
transmission 5 speed manual, the 4,480 milimeter /Wi- 2,040 milimeter /He-930 milimeter
see you again

 

A "MULETTO" that at one time had a chassis plate...

 

Fazzaz 512,

You consider 1026 'no longer destroyed'. How do you think it compares to a replica to for example '1034' and '1038'
(the obvious ofcourse being that these were never M spec).
Do you have any pictures of 1026?
You mention a 1010R, do you have any more details on this?
Would any of these replica's be able to compete in any sicnificant competition are are the only run in demo's?
How many of the 512 model are still running?

And if I may be so impolite; where did you get your extensive 512 knowledge?

 

Maybe because he owns one........

 

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge fazzaz 512!

 

Realy?! Nice! Which?

 

In my opinion, the difference is between a rebuild and a reconstruction: N°1026 was rebuilt on the original chassis. 1010,1034,1038 were reconstructed by building a NEW chassis'.
The attached photo shows the chassis of N°1026 after arrival in the UK at David Clarke's at the time.
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A) 1010 R: Yes, but I am not at liberty to share at present more than this: Constructed in the UK for Albert Obrist around a 'spare' engine. At one time advertised for sale (many years ago for Dollars 800'000. The car ended up in a UK collection. Sorry, no additional info from me on this one.
B) I am the wrong one to ask. Check with the organizers of the races.
C) My count of cars using an original chassis is 20.
D) Thanx for calling it 'extensive'. I have been collecting material on this particular car since the early seventies. Dott. Franco Gozzi, Jess Pourrett, Antoine Prunet, Marcel Massini, and many others helped me in trying to 'find the truth' on the history of these cars from the mid seventies on.
The 1980 article about the 512 S/M cars in the FCA Prancing Horse was (from what I know) the first summary of 512s and based on what was KNOWN AND ASSUMED at the time. Since then the research has continued with help from many friends.

 

The article was in the PH number 59-60 ,just for an info..
and thank you Manfred for all the infos in this thread !

regards
ivo

 

Well, I didn't know that fazzaz512 was Manfred Lampe.
One of the very first identifiable people I knew connected with FCA during the early 70s (Fred Leydorf being the only other).
That's when I took a liking to TdF berlinettas, and yours was the first one I'd seen with open hdlts.

 

Hi

Can you comment on 1004 as it exists today? I think I saw a sign with this car recently that said Andretti had driven it at some point? I'm confused.

Thanks

 

I am not sure of what car or what sign you saw. Check past mailings in this thread for a possible answer.

 

This car which runs in the Historic Ferrari Challange had a sign which included as I remember it "Sebring/Andretti History".
Still confused. If you're correct is this car a real 512S?



From Barchetta

1004 70
512 S Berlinetta
Red
Standard diameter rollbar tube, exposed door hinges (as on all factory cars) and roof vent
Date Result Event Driver # Reference
70 - SF
70/jan/31 acc. 24h Daytona Jacky Ickx/
Peter Schetty #27 C72 p27 PS 3/70 p7
70/apr/25 3rd OA 1000km Monza John Surtess/
Peter Schetty #2 PH59 p30 AMS 11/70 p108, 113, 114 PS 6/70 p14, 15
70/may/03 dns Targa Florio Nino Vaccarella/ Ignazio Giunti #6T
70 - Ecurie Francorchamps, B - chassis only
71 - Herbert Mueller Racing Team, Reinach, CH
74/75 - using frame of 1004 and parts from several cars including 1008 to built up a 512/S 'Coda lunga'. unknown s/n



Note: The car below can't be 1004 due to too many tub differences (but which one is it ?):
75 - a chassis was restamped 1016 - for carnet reasons only - Mueller also owned 1016; straight tub , hidden (inside) door hinges, no roof bubble, no roof vent, very early small diameter rollbar

The tub features on this car were in the 70s very much like the ones on the original 1969 512 press conference car

Manfred Lampe:

According to Mueller in 1976 this car had been assembled from the extra parts he had available on an ex-Filipinetti tub (?), the ex Schetty/Spa car (?). (Schetty at Spa was 1044.....?) The car was never used by him. Mueller sold this car in 1977 (as 1016) in Switzerland

77 - ............, CH
79 - Klaus Scholtyssek, Dreieich, D PH59 p30
79 Oldtimer GP Nuerburgring Klaus Scholtyssek
86/jan - Dallas Motorsport, TX, USA
8. - Don Walker, TX, USA C74 p21
88 - Nick Soprano, White Plains, NJ, USA
92 - John P. Giordano, Cold Spring Harbor, NY, USA C72 p24-30
92/feb/22 Ferrari Spirit Cup I. Cavallino Classic John Giordano #6 C68 p1, 13
94/aug/24 International Ferrari Concours, Monterey, class 33 John Giordano C84 p28
94/aug/26-28 Monterey Historic Races, Laguna Seca John Giordano
04/aug/14-15 Monterey Historic Races, Laguna Seca

 

do you mean this one or are we talking US historic challenge?
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No the one I mean is now a coupe and is raced in the US Historic challenge. It has a bubble added to the roof.