| Author | Message | ||
| Mr. 001 (Racer_001)
Junior Member Username: Racer_001 Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2001 |
there are no yuppie cars. one makes it a yuppiemobile. I know somebody with a TT and he is far from yuppie. Although... those Z3s do look a little yuppie.... mmhhhhhh.... | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1779 Registered: 2-2001 |
He's got all of the more recent models (80s on) in almost every color they came in. I think him and his brother had a falling out which is why some of the cars are being sold, but he still has a hell of a lot of them. BTW, he is also quite dirty Tim. He used to try and bribe famous women into sleeping with him and stuff like that. Maybe he isn't dirty but rather classy on second thought. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 456 Registered: 6-2001 |
The sultan of Brunei is so f'ing rich. He has a 3000, yes, three thousand room palace full of supermodels and stuff that go to his nightly parties. When they get bored he sends them on a shopping spree in paris. His cars would make tony wang look like a 5yr old boy collecting matchbox cars (not really, but it sounds funny) I cant remeber where i read this though. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Junior Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 205 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hay, that's my Honda Accord wagon with a side scoop and a Ferrari logo. You can't fool me! | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 22 Registered: 9-2001 |
Did anyone read the excellent article in Forza about the 456 Venice, which was the convertible made for the Sultan of Brunei. A really beautiful car, its just a shame that Ferrari wont "mass produce" it. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
New member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2001 |
I also just noticed I have a few pictures of the 456 gt estate, but no other information about it.    | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2001 |
Thanks Harlan for clarifying that and for saving me the trouble of finding pictures. I must say that I somewhat miss discussions about rare but important Ferraris like this one. I really like diging into the history of a perticular car. I hope to see more of this but maybe not under this topic, since I hardly think that you can accuse this SWB of being a Yuppie car. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
New member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2001 |
Here is the info I had on file about the bread van, along with a few pictures I'm going to try and post. Count Volpi had ordered a 250GTO from Ferrari in order to race it under the 1962 Manufacturer's Championship under his own team. Enzo Ferrari being himself promptly decided against selling the Count the car because he didn't want to compete against his own design. So, the Count employed a designer named Bizzarrini to change the 250GT SWB chassis # 2819GT into a more competitive racer. They moved the engine lower and back in the chassis for better weight distribution as well as to allow that low front nose. The rear aerodynamics was the result of a German study being done by a guy named Kamm (I'm pretty sure that's his name) and was thought to allow better high speed drag and stability.     | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 20 Registered: 9-2001 |
From what I have gathered the bread van was a spin-off from the 250 GTO. Its shape was designed in a way to reduce lift at the rear, a problem that was affecting the 63'GTO but was later fixed with the 64' models with their 250LM style roof (I'll see if I can find a pic). The car was raced by the Scuderia Serenissima. Most notably driven by Count Volpi who later used the car as his everyday transport! | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 100 Registered: 4-2001 |
At Ferrari owners site all production cars are refered as GT-cars. Sports cars are 250 LM, F40 comptizione, P3, P4, F333 SP etc. Hope that gives a hint for those calling a M3/5 for sports cars... Ciao Peter | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 99 Registered: 4-2001 |
Speaking of raping and M3s. At a Alfa track day a M3 was raped by an old Alfa Romeo 33, no mods except bushings, spring and dampers. An M3 driven by an amateur racing driver was raped by a 355 driven by a track day guy. Funny isn't? Ciao Peter | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 103 Registered: 7-2001 |
Jon, That was a great description of the oversteer problem in the 911. My father has a 1994 turbo 3.6 and 3 of my friends drive late '80s 930s (one of them has over 620hp at the rear wheels). I feel the 3.6 is a little better than the 3.3 930s as it has a little more low end tourque and the 5 speed gearbox reduces the turbo lag. However, once you do some simple mods to the 930s such as exhaust, wastegate spring, intercooler and turbo; it really wakes the car up and reduces the lag tremendously. Not to mention shooting 6 foot flames out of the exhaust  . James | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 431 Registered: 6-2001 |
Thanks for the input Jon. I always thought it some dangerous trait that was uncontrolable and dangerous. Thanks for shedding some light on that. Im reading a good book on driving by Ross Bently and he says that if the car still feels like u have controll of it you arent going as fast as you can, which is the same as saying that u have to slide the car to be the fastest. In F1 or CART the cars dont really slide at all, or at least not noticably. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Junior Member Username: Solly Post Number: 196 Registered: 6-2001 |
The Ferrari "breadvan" was a one-off weird-looking racer based on a 250. The rear end looked like a station wagon (like a British "shooting break"), but was never a production car. Ferrari did make a few one-off wagons and 4 door coupes for the Sultan of Brunei and other heavy hitters, based on a 456 model, but these are not production cars, and you and I cannot order them. Ferrari does not sell station wagons in Europe. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 104 Registered: 8-2001 |
Tim, Your question regarding how hard it is to learn to drive a 911 even when you are expecting oversteer is hard to explain since the 911 was the first car I learned to drive at the track. I went from an old 911S to my cousins 930 Turbo. The hardest part about driving the early 911's comes down to simple "balls" or confidence to use a more politically correct term. It's hard not to lift when things start going wrong, it's just instinct. I had a very good instructor when I was learning to drive the 911S and the turbo. He would tell me to go into the turn and not lift and everytime I thought I had done so he said "Nope" you hesitated or lifted (granted I was going slow enought that lifting wasn't upsetting the car). I didn't even know I was consciously doing it so on one lap he put his foot over the transmission tunnel and forced my foot down. The damn car did oversteer but it hooked up and stuck. The problem with the older turbos is also most seen in the rain where good throttle work is important. I actually think that the 911 in some regards is better balanced with the engine in the rear because you never have to worry much about understeer if the car is set up right. Most racers will tell you than understeer is way worse than oversteer (just watch F1). Most racers will tell you that you want some oversteer because if the car is not sliding then you are not going fast enough. At many race schools they teach the technique of "rotation" which is just a fancy word for a controlled spin or drift. If you race or have great car control skills this oversteer should not bother a driver. By the time most students or racers get to the point where they can control oversteer it's not problem. With the 911 turbo you had such lag that you really couldn't get off the throttle much and if you were good enough you left foot braked (sometimes tricky in the older 911's with their floor hinged pedals). The average person in a 911 is going to be slower than the average person in a Vette or BMW. But the opposite is true for people with high skill and good car control. Back in the early 90's one of our US car mags did a test of all the fast sports cars (ZR1, Lotus, Viper, Lambo, F-car, and a 911 C2 Turbo). The drivers consisted of four or five magazine editors and Danny Sullivan, Indy car Champion. All the editors had faster lap times in the other cars and remarked how the 911 was just too hard to drive fast with all that dreaded oversteer. Sullivan commented that the 911 Turbo was the best of the bunch and got faster lap times in the Porsche than the other cars. Oversteer is your friend!!! Jon | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
New member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2001 |
I think the "bread van" was also for a sultan and I'm pretty sure it was a 250gt. If I remember correctly they did it for aerodynamic reasons and it was a non-sponsered race only car. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Junior Member Username: T88power Post Number: 219 Registered: 2-2001 |
Are you referring to the Bread Van? You consider that a wagon? That was a race car... | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 643 Registered: 9-2001 |
Willis, I forgot about that one. The one I was referring to was a one-off too but it was made in the 1960s based on the 330 I believe or it could have even been the 275 or 250. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 525 Registered: 8-2001 |
The Ferrari "wagon" was a special project for the Sultan of Brunei. It's based on the 456. A sedan and convertible were also made. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 641 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ferrari did make a car referred to as The Bread Wagon in the 1960s. I can't recall it's model designation but it did have a wagon like rear end. And, if you want throttle lift overstear, go in to a corner to fast in a TR and lift ! | ||
| David Harris (Dakharris)
Junior Member Username: Dakharris Post Number: 117 Registered: 6-2001 |
If I didn't own a Ferrari, I would be the consummate YUPPIE according to this string. My other two cars are a Dodge SUV and a BMW. I can haul five people in my Durango along with all of their ski gear up to Lake Tahoe and wave to the Volvos and Saabs (and Buicks)pulled over to put on chains. My BMW 318is cost $18,200 new in 1992. It now has 130,000 fun-filled miles on the clock and the original clutch. If having a specific car for a specific purpose makes me a YUPPIE, that's me. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Junior Member Username: T88power Post Number: 218 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ferrari does not make a wagon... they'll leave wagon/SUV market to Porsche... Ernesto | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Junior Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 175 Registered: 6-2001 |
Tim: The reason there is a lot of oil on the road at the various driving schools is to lower the speed where the cars start to do funny stuff. If you want to plan on seeing what happens with lift-off over steer, unless you want your insurance carrier to replace the car, I'd make sure that the exit line off the corner has no obstructions. All cars with a rear weight bias have a tendency to experience lift off over steer. At the limit the Porsche is especially bad in that regard. If your reactions are quick and you have trained for it, you can probably recover if there is enough room to the outside of your car. However, getting that experience is what makes the process a bummer. It usually costs money, and lots of it. Sometimes it costs more than money. I also likened the over steer issue to rear wheel steering on a motorcycle. It can make you go faster, but there are penalties if you make a mistake. Better to have a car with better balance, like the Ferrari. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 430 Registered: 6-2001 |
How hard is it to learn how to drive an early 911 turbo fast? How predictable and easy to control are they if u expect the oversteer to happen? | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
New member Username: Tkrefeld Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2001 |
"The 911 RS must be turning in it's grave" Na, It's still running "Damn, I bet that stupid Porsche SUV is only going to worsen the image that Porsche has become a mainstream manufacter. If Ferrari ever decides to build a SUV I'll have to look elsewehre for sportscar thrills" Doesn't Ferrari make a wagon they sell only overseas? and now they have Maserati. a bit of a luxury car. But where could you go??? Lamborghini is now owned by Audi, who has had ties in the past w/ Vw who had ties w/ Porsche. I think Land Rover is owned by someone else, and didn't Ford get their hand in Lotus? Things are getting "commercialized" a few companies own all. Not good for the consumer. In the US Clinton passed a bill for "deregulation" which allowed phone companies to name their own ways, thinking the now extrmemly competion would bring better service and lower prices to us all. Well, guess what. all the phone service in US is owned by only 5(i think) companies, and they ALL ganged up on us and RAISED their prices together. Things are different. Maybe peolpe will get tired of junk at inflated prices and industries will HAVE to do something to stay alive. But, I do hear you about the 996. While i don't think it sounds like a lawnmoer, and it still looks good and has power, it is a different car. I figure Porsche is doing one of 3 things. ( Or a combo of them) 1) Chasing the money to make big profits to dump into R&D for future cars and racing. 2) Using their history and name to make big dollars on lesser cars(or Harleys) being greedy. 3) their focus had completely changed and they are no longer the company that they were and have abandoned the very things which made them great. I don't think the Cayane will be all bad. I think it will be a scaled down 959 and hopefully they will race it. But, Porsche races to sell, and Ferrari sells to race, so w/ racing a prime component they will have to continue to be good. I think soon things will change and people will be into "old fashioned value" once again. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 103 Registered: 8-2001 |
If you really want to experience lift off oversteer you have to go back quite a ways. Anything built in the 90's has so much understeer dialed in that you have to do something really stupid to get the car unsettled (something that would send any car off not just a 911). My 89 911 even had some unwanted understeer dailed in but the 993 and the 996's are downright overkill. Even worse is a 993 or 996 C4. They understeer badly. The reputation for lift induced oversteer comes from the 70's and 80's cars and were especially bad on the single turbo cars because of the dreaded lag. The trick in those cars was to left foot brake and keep the throttle down from turn in, to apex, to track out. If you don't the car looses all power at turn in and then explodes at the apex and most people react by lifting (VERY BAD CHOICE). Jon | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 429 Registered: 6-2001 |
Safe suspension setup? drive a pre 993 911 (especially a turbo) into a corner and let off the gas and see what happens. I know all cars go into lift off oversteer, but from what i understand nothing is as bad as 911's up till the 993, and even they do it a little im told. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 102 Registered: 8-2001 |
Until Jeep build a Cherokee or Ford builds a Mustang, or Chrysler builds a minivan........ that can top 185 mph, a 360 is a "Supercar" damit!!!!!! Sorry guys but any car that can top 180 and get close to breaking the 200 barrier is a supercar in my opinion. As for the previous post mentioning Porsche's I have owned four of them (89 911, 90 944S2, C2, and 993) so I am hardly a baised Ferrari person. Sports cars are not supposed to have engines that sound like a honda lawnmower, cupholders, cell phones, deep pile carpeting, electronic spoilers that look like they came from Japanese coupe, heated seats, navigation system, 150 ounds of sound deading material, PSM (Porsche Stability Management??) and a host of other techno gizmos so your granny can drive it to the grocery store, all wheel drive, and all that other useless luxury stuff that weighs the car down. I love the older Porsches but finally switched over to Ferrari because the Porsches are now targeted as mass sportscars that any idiot can drive. The 911 RS must be turning in it's grave. It came out in 73' and only had 210 hp but it was so light and nimble that it kicked everyones ass on the track, even cars with twice the horsepower. Today's standard 911 can barely outrun four door sedans and sport utlities. And the GT3 street car that is produced in Europe (the only 911 except the GT2 worth owning was never brought to the states). Why, because Porsche thought it was to "rough' for American consumers. Damn, I bet that stupid Porsche SUV is only going to worsen the image that Porsche has become a mainstream manufacter. If Ferrari ever decides to build a SUV I'll have to look elsewehre for sportscar thrills. OK! I fell better now!! Jon Kofod | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
New member Username: Tkrefeld Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2001 |
The point is that german generally build cars with a lot of comfort details on (radio buttons on the steering wheel, safe suspention set-up etc.). That makes a boring car simply because it's a compromise biased towards comfort and not sportiness. WHAT????????????????????? Up until the 996 Porsche had the erganomics of a Uhaul truck if you're talking comfort you 're talking British or American | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 427 Registered: 6-2001 |
Car And Driver called the C5 vette a supercar once (i dont know it i agree with them on that one). What are the criteria that define a supercar? | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 524 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ummm...Chris, Ferrari never categorize the 360 as a "supercar". That moniker belongs to the F50 and the upcoming FX/F60. The current V12s are considered as GTs. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Junior Member Username: T88power Post Number: 216 Registered: 2-2001 |
Sorry... I thought my 360 was a supercar... I guess not... DAMN!! Ernesto | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2001 |
BMW M cars are not much slower if any than Ferrari's? Want proof? My '95 M3 raped every car in the Car and Driver BEST HANDLING CAR in America, including the 355 a NEW Ferrari that year. How about in a straight line? I can hit sub 5 0-60 all day, and I only have a stage 3 Dinan Chip. Any same year or earlier Ferrari that thinks it can challenge the M3 I welcome the challenge, but just because it looks like a regular sedan that doesn't make it slower. Furthmore, my ///M3 is comfier. I am not saying that the New M3 can beat the 360 but a V-8 Ferrari is not the supercar everyone thinks it is. Its a stylish exclusive fast car. The V-12's ar a different story. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
New member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2001 |
Doh, I guess I could have been concise and just said what Frank said! | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
New member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2001 |
sports car n.: An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds. (The American Heritage® Dictionary) n : a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons (WordNet Princeton) Based on the first definition even a 360 may not be a sports car. Based on the second definition the tiptronic Porsche 911 c2 is very much as sports car. I know people that will tell you "if it has a roof its not a sports car, its a sporty car" to them even street driver Ferrari�s are just �sporty cars� and not true sports cars. What does the �sports� in �sports car� mean anyway doesn�t it mean racecar that is the sport of cars. So sports car is a synonym for racecar and any road going Ferrari (minus 288/f40/f50) are simply sporty cars. Now if we have sporty cars in most road Ferrari�s can sporty cars not have an automatic transmission it isn�t a racecar why could it not have an auto? There are probably another thousand or so ways to break down what is or isn�t a sports car, depending on the person. I don�t know for sure what makes a �sports car� and what doesn�t, but I surely don�t think it comes down to �automatic vs. manual�. I would argue that Ferrari doesn�t even currently make a sports car for sale to the public, if we are going to argue about what belongs in a sports car first we have to agree what a sports car is, don�t we? Oh and if we are going to term them �sporty cars� does that mean the ford taurus is sporty, they do have a taurus racing car in nascar. I love Porsche (even the tiptronic ones that make driving downtown in traffic tolerable), Ferrari, Lotus even Ford and chevy of course Mitsubishi, BMW, Jaguar, and Lexus; damn I just love cars. Please keep in mind having a car, any car does not make anyone a better person, having a Ferrari also doesn�t mean you have the fastest car on the road either. I�m pretty sure that most standard 2002MY sedans will blow the doors off about 1/3 of the Ferrari�s out there. This topic is starting to sound petty maybe I can sum it up �I drive a Ferrari so I�m better than anyone that drives a Porsche because any Ferrari is better than any Porsche� maybe we should stick to why we got the one we got, not why its so much better than any other car, its not. I think a Ferrari is one of the world�s worst streetcars hands down. I believe a Ferrari is just ahead of a Yugo. I�m ready to support my statement with hard facts as well, not the least of which is that a car is a depreciating asset therefore it should be purchased almost solely on its $/mile value and never if not needed. A Ferrari as a racecar is also pretty low on the $/value scale. Here again I find myself with a post I feel like I would be better off not submitting, but I�ll stop now and post it anyway. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 636 Registered: 9-2001 |
I agree. An M5 is a sports sedan not a sports car. But, it is faster than most sports cars out there. And, if you want to be technical,traditionally a "sports car" was always a two seat convertable. If it had a hard top and/or a back seat(Porsche 911), it was a "sports coupe". | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2001 |
A friend of mine is a motoring journalist. He tests all kind of EXPENSIVE cars (thats why I also have driven a lot of those exotics). According to him there is only one Porsche (i.e german car) that come close to any of the italian sportscars regarding fun factor and that is the Porsche Boxter. Pity that I didn't have a chance to test that one. Ciao Peter | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 97 Registered: 4-2001 |
James, of course Tiptronic doesn't count. It an automatic and automatics does not belong in a sports car. The point is that german generally build cars with a lot of comfort details on (radio buttons on the steering wheel, safe suspention set-up etc.). That makes a boring car simply because it's a compromise biased towards comfort and not sportiness. We all know that you can't have both. Ciao Peter | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Junior Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 167 Registered: 6-2001 |
Guys: Everyone knows that their sports car is faster than a Ferrari. That is until they run into a Ferrari being driven by a competent driver. there is a large difference between the average guy who owns a Ferrari in driving skills. The new cars are so good that the driver makes the difference. I would be willing to bet that the M5 which everyone thinks is so fast, is probably slower than a 348 on the track, and much slower than a 355 or 360 on the track, given the same driving skill. An M5 is a great vehicle, but IT IS NOT A SPORTS CAR, IT IS A SPORTS SEDAN! I bet all of us have sedans that are quicker than the average. I've got a A6, 2.7 Turbo, with the European chip, makes 306 HP, and is quick for a sedan. The M5 is quicker still, but ITS STILL NOT A SPORTS CAR, ITS A SEDAN. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 628 Registered: 9-2001 |
The BMW SMG in the M3 uses paddles not buttons. And, the euro version has launch control. | ||
| Mongrel (Mongrel)
New member Username: Mongrel Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2002 |
The Boxster gets the most mention here, but the leading magazines (C&D in particular) fell in love with it. I never understood why... | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1731 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think it's dumb when they have manually controlled automatics. Why not just get a real manual? The BMW one is cool though since it's like the Fcar's, I don't like how it uses buttons though instead of paddles. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 416 Registered: 6-2001 |
Tiptronic isnt really a "semi-automatic" gearbox. Its an everyday automatic transmission that can be shifted with buttons, it shouldnt be confused with the ferrari F1 system, which is a manual gearbox that is hydraulically shifted. The Ferrari F1 gearbox isnt a sequential maunual, the BWM is, thats why it shifts faster. The F1 system was available in the Alfa 156 back when it was first available in the F355, i'll dig out the issue of C&D with the article about it. The Mondial system was different in that only the clutch was computer controlled. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 97 Registered: 7-2001 |
Peter, you wrote.. "Tiptronic, is't that some kind of semi automatic or "button clutch" or something-box? And that doesn't count" Yes, it is some crappy semi automatic gearbox, but why doesnt it count??? You were stating that German companies use the steering wheel buttons for trivial things. The fact is that Porsche had this system in place years before Ferrari implemented it. James | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 96 Registered: 4-2001 |
Since we are talking about my favorite subject, las times, I would like to add these figures. Jan �Flash� Nilsson, Professional racing driver at Mantorp Park (Sweden) testing production cars for a magazine. Chrysler Viper GTS 1.31.61 (120 km/h) Lamborghini Diablo VT 1.31.90 Ferrari F355 F1 Berlinetta 1.33.73 Porsche 911 Carrera Cup 1.35.42 BMW M Coupe 1.35.64 Maserati 3200 GT 1.36.30 Chevrolet Corvette C5 1.37.21 Jaguar XKR 1.39.72 And Thed Björk, Professional racing driver at a provisional track i Denmark for another magazine. Lamborghini Diablo VT 0.56.10 Nissan Skyline 0.58.88 BMW M5 0.59.02 Maserati 3200 GT 1.00.12 BMW Z3 Coupe 2.8 1.01.60 Same track but an amateur driver (seller in an already sold car) Ferrari 360 Challenge 0.56.95 An amateur driver in a sold 360 C is about 2% faster than a professional driver in a M5. Ciao Peter | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2001 |
James, I expected that to show up... Tiptronic, is't that some kind of semi automatic or "button clutch" or something-box? And that doesn't count... Anyway, today you can order Alfa 147, 156, Ferraris and Maserati with paddles controling a manual gearbox. What I have heard the SGM-box is slower than the F1-box. Is that right? BTW. Nanini damaged his right hand very badly in a helicopter accident and wasn't able to pull the stick so Alfa developed a sequential gearbox with two separate "push levers" for up and downshifting. It was used in the DTM Alfa 155 and they won the DTM that year. That was the start of sequentiel gearbox era in touring car racing in europe. Ciao Peter | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 627 Registered: 9-2001 |
I'm not claiming that the M5 is a better track car than a Ferrari, it isn't. But, I am saying that for the money the M5 outperforms all Feraris, including a F50 for that matter. You are getting less than 0.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile for over twice the money. I agree that a BMW is no Ferrari. I've had five Ferraris and loved each one of them even though they cost much more than they're worth to buy and maintain. BMW does have a superior Sequential Manual Gearbox in the new M3. It shifts much faster and is more reliable. And, on euro models it has launch control; you mash a button on the dash , press the throttle to the floor and the engine revs to 3500rpm and stays there, you then pull the steering wheel mounted shifter to first and the car takes off and changes to second at redline, you then take over and shift from third up tp sixth. And, Ferrari had nothing to do with the F1 shifter technology. It was invented by a French company and sold to Marelli and first used in a Lancia before Ferrari even used in in their F1 car. In fact, a French version of the automatic clutch manual shifter was used in the Mondial prior to Marelli buying the technology. | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2001 |
Also BMW has their "buttons" to change gears on the M3 and their system is considered by most to be better than Ferrari's F1 system. I think it is only because they came out with it much later, copying Ferrari's and improving it, but still.... | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 95 Registered: 7-2001 |
Peter, You wrote...... "Designers in Germany and Italy have just decided to put buttons on the steering wheel. In Germany those buttons control the stereo, in Italy those buttons control the gearbox." Actually, Porsche had the little buttons on their steering wheels to change gears back in 1993. Both the 911 and 968 had this option with the tiptronic transmission. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 98 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ernesto, Comparing street 360's and 355's at the track is a bit tricky because of varying levels of driver skill. I have driven both street cars at the track and my experience is that the 360 is faster than the 355 but I wouldn't call the gap huge. The problem with comparing the two street cars is that very few people at track events have the skill or the desire to push their 355's and 360's to 10/10ths. I will agree with you that at 10/10ths the 360 is indeed a good bit quicker but 99% of the people driving will not enter this realm. I do about 15 track days and 10+ race weekends a year and even I don't drive my 355 Challenge at 10/10ths unless racing. What I did notice (and many others have remarked) is that the limit on the 360 while higher than the 355, is much less forgiving. The gap between on the limit and over the limit is much smaller on the 360 and requires much more skill to bring the car back. In the 355 you can make tiny mistakes at the limit that you can't make in the 360. Some say it's because the 360 has higher limits or is faster, but I don't agree. I have driven Formula Continental cars that have much higher limits than any Ferrari street car and even those cars don't require as much work to correct a mistake. The 360 is not a car for inexperienced drivers to take to the limit. Your reference to Challenge races is a bit misleading. My 355 Challenge is only about 200 Pounds lighter than a stock 355. The difference between the street 360 and the Challenge version is nearly 600 pounds. There is no way a 355 with 25 less hp and 400 extra pounds will ever compete with a 360 C with equal drivers. That being said if you attended any of the Challenge races and watched the B group, many of those races were won by 355 C's simply because they were driven by better racers. Just my two cents worth. Jon | ||
| Frederick Klorczyk (Fjk)
New member Username: Fjk Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2001 |
OK, I concede. How about German Oldsmobiles instead of Buicks with the exception of the M versions and the Z8. The new 7 class requires a degree in computer science to drive - might as well be a Rolls or ride a bus. A friend just bought a 330ix for some $50k and it is like riding in your father's Olds. Comfy, power seats, good radio and good build quality. Oh yeah, and an automatic transmission disguised as a sequential. Another bought a new automatic 5 series and after a weeek was truly disappointed in the (lack of) performance. He gave it to his wife and drives an Acura. Whatever floats your boat is the obvious answer I think. And, Porsche engines are noted for their longevity with nothing more than oil changes and tune ups. Many 911s have gone 250,000 to 500,000 miles according to the magazine experts. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Junior Member Username: T88power Post Number: 209 Registered: 2-2001 |
Not from what I've seen on tracks and Challenge races.... Ernesto | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 97 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ernesto, Sorry I posted them in reverse. Should read 360 1:23 and 355 in 1:24. The 360 is not much faster than a 355. Jon | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Junior Member Username: T88power Post Number: 205 Registered: 2-2001 |
Are you saying that a stock 355 has lapped Summit Point faster than a stock 360? This must be the only racetrack in the world where the 360 is not faster than a 355. The street 360 has been known to be faster around most tracks than a 355 Challenge. Anyway, my point is that although on paper the M5 should be a good race against a 360 because of similar horsepower figures and more torque, my experience with M5's is that I completely run away from them on virtually any situation - especially a 30 - 150 mph dash on the highway, which I have experienced many times. It is not even close. The M5 is a great car, but it is still a heavier four-door car. It compares favorably with a MB E55 and Audi S8. That's its competition. Ernesto | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2001 |
I have driven M3s, Z8, 911 TT etc. and I would never trade any of them for my 328 simply because they don't even come close regarding driving feedback and excitement. That 328 I have is a DRIVERS car, the others are just transport. Sometimes fast but still just transport. It's a design culture and tradition thing. Just imagine this. Designers in Germany and Italy have just decided to put buttons on the steering wheel. In Germany those buttons control the stereo, in Italy those buttons control the gearbox. This little example shows the fundamental difference between German and Italian way of designing cars. Germans design cars more biased to comfort and Italians design cars more biased to a race and sporty style. You just have to choose which car designing culture you are interested in. Ciao Peter | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 96 Registered: 8-2001 |
Not on your life! Wouldn't ever drop a 360 or a 355 for that matter for any M5. However, if you need a four door that as fast as a Ferrari there is only one choice, an M5. Nothing made in Germany can match the excitement and passion of an Italian car (Ferrari or Lambo) but if I had to give up the 2-door for something more practical it would be an M car hands down. German cars are better built, cost less, and in some cases just as fast (or faster) than Ferrari's. I don't think the Germans will ever be able to match the passion that Ferrari produces because they are building a car for the masses and thus have to be much more conservative. I have driven the 996 TT (and hope to drive a 996 GT2 in Europe in a few months) and it will destroy a 360 or 550 but it's quite boring to drive compared to the Italian competition. I think that every car manufacturer builds at least one or two models in their line up that is a "yuppie" car. For years BMW built underperforming 4 cyl. BMWS that were clearly aimed at imagine buyers. Same with Porsche and the 924/944's (and now the Boxster). Merc has that ugly looking 25K hatchback that looks like a Honda civic. My opinion is that all these SUV's are clearly yuppie cars. The Merc M class, BMW X5's, and now God forbid Porsche is coming out with a Sport Ute. You want a "REAL" sport ute you buy a Chevy Suburban, Blazer etc.. or a Ford Expedition. What the hell are you going to tow with a X5 or Merc M class...one of those little dinky U-Haul trialers. Give me a break. I have a 22 foot enclosed trailer what good is a BMW or Merc. I need a turbo diesel engine with 550 pound feet of torque. The worst is the Cadillac Escalade (or whatever it's called) with all that crome. It's absolutely hilarious watching soccer mom's in the grocery store parking lot try to park those damn things. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 520 Registered: 8-2001 |
So you're saying that I should dump my 360 for a M5? I think this BMW vs Ferrari debate has been done to death here on FerrariChat already. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 95 Registered: 8-2001 |
Here's a "German Buick" that will leave 308's, 328's and 348's in the dust. FYI: On the street the new M5 or M3 is a worthy match for a 355/360 and depending on driver either car can win the match of any of them. At the track forget about it, equal drivers the 355 and the 360 will leave an M5 easily after a few laps. Another thing to consider about these "German Buicks". My engine is the original engine that came with this car in 1987 (1988 model) with 130,000 miles on it (about half are track and race miles). The engine was still going strong at 125,000 miles before I missed a shift and had to have it rebuilt. I guarantee you that my 355 Challenge will have had many engine rebuilds when it hits the 100,000 mile mark. BMW's last forever. The specific engine in my model year M5 is good for at least 200,000-250,000 miles before needing a rebuild. I doubt many can say this about any Ferrari even the bulletproof 308's. Fastest lap at Summit Point raceway for an M5 is low 1:26's, a stock 355 has done it in 1:23 and a 355 Challenge can do it in under 1:19. Street 360 is also about 1:24 flat. But as Frank pointed out where else can you get a four door sedan that can carry four adults and a host of golf bags for a 500 mile trip to Hilton Head. And a 360 would not be able to pull away on I95 until the M5 hits the rev limiter at 155 mph. Better yet the M5 costs half what a 360 costs and it will last forever. By the way the "old" M5 in this picture has nearly 320 horsepower and by summer we will be putting in a 3.8 M5 engine with close to 370 hp. At that point I will be "hunting" for 355's. http://registry.bmwe34m5.com/HTMLFiles/JonPKofod.htm Regards, Jon P. Kofod  | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1721 Registered: 2-2001 |
The reference that I'm making is that over there they are a dime a dozen. Only the special models, like the M3 of course, are of any interest to most people over there. The M5 is surprisingly fast, my friend just got a new M3 and his dad has the M5, I'd say the M5 almost has the edge in a straight line. It's uncomfortable or at least easier to unsettle compared to the M3 though. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Junior Member Username: T88power Post Number: 203 Registered: 2-2001 |
I love the BMW M cars, the current M3 specifically because as you say they are very close to the M5 in performance and are more nimble (and look better in my opinion). My friend has a Euro version M3 and runs me much better than the M5's I have raced. I just find M5 drivers funny because since they too have 400hp and more torque, they expect to be just as fast as the 360... Ernesto | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
New member Username: Boozy Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2001 |
I have an M3 and the service is free up to 50,000 miles Yep, that's a bit cheaper than on the Ferrari! Have you raced any E46 M3s yet? They spec out pretty close to the M5 on 0-60 and 1/4 mile. I would not call a BMW a "German Buick." Especially if it's name starts with an M. They are serious sports cars with exceptional build quality. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Junior Member Username: T88power Post Number: 202 Registered: 2-2001 |
What for? I live in Puerto Rico... I have raced plenty of M5's here, most recently one with DINAN exhaust, filter, and chip. Its not even a good race... Ernesto | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 625 Registered: 9-2001 |
Bring it on over to Panoz Track Days at Road Atlanta Ernesto. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Junior Member Username: T88power Post Number: 201 Registered: 2-2001 |
I completely KILL M5's on the road and track in straight-line accelleration (I'm not even talking twisties). It is so funny to see M5 owners's faces who think that there were gonna give my 360 a challenge... Ernesto | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 622 Registered: 9-2001 |
Well I've outrun a 360 6 speed with my M5 at Road Atlanta from turn seven down to the black flag station. The listed difference between 0-60mph and 1/4 mile times of the two cars is only 0.4 seconds. And Ferrari is known for exaggerating their figures and BMW is known for sandbagging theirs. With a Ferrari shifter a week end driver can lose that between first and second. The BMW shifts like butter and I drive it every day. Sure the 360 has more top speed and has less weight to push around the curves. But, it cost over $160k and only seats two while the M5 is only $70k and seats five. So, the fact is that the 360 is an underperformer with the M5 being an overperformer whether you like it or not. By the way, the 30k service is $450.00 ! | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1714 Registered: 2-2001 |
Mercedes and BMW are most certainly German Buicks for lack of a better description. They're obviously much better designed than most American cars. Like half the taxis are MBs over there, just without all the options. I would say that only the high priced models are viewed as anything special over there. | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
New member Username: Boozy Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2001 |
BMW M5: 3792 lbs 400HP 360 ft. lbs @ 3800 RPM 4.7s 0-60 13.2s 1/4mi Ferrari 360 Modena: 2844lbs 400HP at 8500 RPM 275 ft lbs @ 4750 RPM 4.3s 0-60 0 - ¼ mile 12.8 I don't believe that an M5 with 1000 more lbs will beat a 360 in a drag race. It is undoubtedly a fast car, but I don't think the superior torque is enough to pull on a 360 in a straight line. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 621 Registered: 9-2001 |
On a curvy track I agree. But, in a drag race the M5 will stay with the 360 with a passenger on board. The 0-60mph times are almost the same. With the notchy non-F1 shifter of the 360, I doubt many 360 owners could duplicate the 0-60mph times claimed by the Ferrari. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2001 |
How come we missed the audi TT? Only willi from S>A> seemed to picked up on it, despite its obviousness; indeed, its the paradigm, particularly for this era (so far). | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 519 Registered: 8-2001 |
There goes Frank again. Dissing the 360 whenever he can. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 83 Registered: 2-2001 |
I've a bit of experience with both the current (and past) M5 and 360. The M5, while a nice (but portly) sedan, will not stay with a 360 (passenger-equipped, or otherwise) unless the driver of the 5 is significantly more skilled. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 617 Registered: 9-2001 |
I have used BMWs as my daily drivers for 15 years now and do not know of a better sports sedan. I have had an M3, two M5s as well as my wife's 740iL and have enjoyed them all. The M3 and M5s will outrun and/or run with most 2 seat sports cars yet seat 5 in the process. In fact, I dare say my M5 with two people aboard will outrun a 360 with two people aboard because the second passenger affects a two seater more than a sedan. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2010 Registered: 2-2001 |
William, You got that right. They don't want to stand out in their herd too much until it comes to out doing the Jones Yuppies. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1070 Registered: 2-2001 |
Porsche Boxster, Audi TT, BMW M3, Basically wimpy gutless sportscars,Yupies dont like to stand out from their herd too much | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 599 Registered: 9-2001 |
BMWs are hardly German Buicks Frederick. My M5 is faster than a Ferrari 355 and will seat five ! I have passed a many of Porsche and other sports cars at Road Atlanta before in my M5 as well as my old M3. And the times at BMW Club events at Road Atlanta are faster than the Porsche and Ferrari Club times. BMW has lead the industry in sports sedans since the 2002 came out. It is one of the few manufacturers who offer a manual transmission in a sedan. When you pull up beside a Bimmer and rev it up, you might just see Bavarian tail lights as they grow smaller on the horizon.By the way, the Buick GNX is no a slouch either. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Junior Member Username: Solly Post Number: 187 Registered: 6-2001 |
As to that stupid 80's era cell phone: pumped out 3 watts (10 times the power of the current handheld cell phones), fried god-knows-how-many brain cells, and twice shorted out the electrical system (was hardwired in). But was crucial for image conscious professional person on the prowl. First 200 calls were to acquaintances just to let them know I had a car phone ($800 bill). Rarely used it after that. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1698 Registered: 2-2001 |
I love those $75K SUVs, the thought of off roading one is comparable to taking the ferrari out in the mud. It just seems to me that it defeats the purpose of having a capable off road vehicle when you have to worry about the paint. Therefore I agree with djmonk about Range Rover, and would add MB, BMW, Lexus, etc (some have been said already) as the ultimate yuppie mobiles. BMW actually addressed this by making the X5 more on road savvy than off road savvy after doing a study with showed something like 95% of SUVs were never touching a dirt patch. | ||
| Frederick Klorczyk (Fjk)
New member Username: Fjk Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2001 |
I think the original definition of YUP was "Young Upwardly-mobile Professional". Typically someone educated and well employed and headed up the corporate ladder. Never heard of "Urban" used in lieu of "Upwardly-mobile". There were also "DINKs". "Double Income, No Kids". Always felt Yuppies and DINKs drove BMWs - usually automatics. DINKs had two. I suppose as we all aged (my wife and I were yuppies of my definition) and possibly had kids we'd have needed something a little roomier. I have thus been buying Blazers and Suburbans for quite a few years now to get the boys and their friends to places where other style vehicles aren't that feasible. I have been stuck with 2WD too many times to endanger my kids in similar situations by not using 4WD or AWD when possible. I hope that is not a crime against mankind. I never owned a BMW back then or ever. Seems like a German Buick to me and too synonomous with the negative aspects of yuppiedom. Porsche turbos were my soft spot then and still now along with 4WD pickups. My wife bought Corvettes (her money not mine). Ferraris were always a goal and deemed a luxury. Goal attained. | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
New member Username: Davem Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2002 |
Reporting from Connecticut Yuppie HQ. My opinion is the Range Rover win's hands down. {For those of you that may own one i truly believe you are the exception} Its a gas sucking OPEC wet dream of an SUV. Overpriced totally unreliable {still uses lucas i believe, need i say more} The best ones are those painted in british racing green, as if... | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2001 |
Solly- i'm totally with you on the early cellphones. i wish i had one of those now, with the cord and the box, sort of immediate post ww II vintage (where you had another guy to wear the transmitter on his back), and then whip it out discretely during a business meeting, or in a restaurant... | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1684 Registered: 2-2001 |
LOL, Solly. I'd say you're a real piece of work now. Seriously though, you may have been a yuppie before, but this is a great example of the type of reformation that can happen in one's life. I find that post so funny. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Junior Member Username: Solly Post Number: 186 Registered: 6-2001 |
I began as the ultimate yuppie in the mid-80's with the Manhattan bachelor pad, the Bimmer and a summer share in the Hamptons/Fire Island. I had one of the first cell phones available (weighed 15 lbs!) installed in my '85 Corvette, even though I had no use for it. Then developed some taste and bought a Jag XJ6 (still one of the most beautiful cars ever made, IMHO, but a real piece of s**t mechanically. Car progression, chronologically: '82 Civic (still in school, can only dream of yuppiedom) '84 BMW 320 (with my first job, yuppiedom so close I can smell it) '85 Corvette (went sideways from traditional yuppie progression to bigger Bimmer) '87 Jaguar XJ6 (don't think this is a yuppie car, too classic) '93 Caddilac Sedan De Ville/'93 Jeep (I get married,have kids, and abandon the whole yuppie thing) '97 BMW 528i (wife awakens late to latent yuppie tendencies) '97 Porsche 911 (is this yuppie, or am I now too old to qualify?) '00 BMW 540i (wife decides she needs more power for the grocery runs and PTA meetings) '01 Suburban (I know, I know, but it's the best way to get to Vermont with my sanity intact-got a VCR player in the back seat to keep the kids quiet) Finally-May '01 I get a '74 Dino and life changes again. What am I now? | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 511 Registered: 8-2001 |
Todd, you don't sound like a yuppie at all. You drive a Porsche because you like it not because it's trendy. | ||
| Todd Chen (Tec)
New member Username: Tec Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2002 |
Thanks for your support, magoo. Incidentally, I'll be tracking my yuppie-mobile at Texas World Speedway on 3/2-3/3. I think I saw at least 5 or 6 Ferraris out there in January. Anyone going to be there? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 1982 Registered: 2-2001 |
Tyler, I agree and Todd it doesn't sound like you are a Yuppie to me. | ||
| William_Huber (Solipsist)
Junior Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 184 Registered: 9-2001 |
Well, we can agree that SUV's are the craze for high tech yuppies. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 509 Registered: 8-2001 |
Hmmm...I guess my first attempt at defining yuppie is a bit too outdated. Had a little time to think about it this afternoon (while enjoying a nice drive in the 360)and the over-arching factor of negative yuppie-ness seemed to be the great need to be socially upwardly-mobile at all cost. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2001 |
This is a tough one, not only because you're bound to offend somebody that has or likes one of the forementioned, but because it's also a state of mind, to wit, a clueless person who buys because it is the thing to buy, and not for any performance-based reason. Thus in this class, non-turbo new porsches with tiptronics, boxster-non S, BMW 3 cheapies or worse, 5 series with tiny engine (and of course, automatic), C class benzes (nonAMG or earlier, factory or aftermarket tuned versions), yes, almost any volvo(but then you have to separate out the granola crowd, and college professors, and New Englanders, not all of whom are yups), alot of Saabs (although most Saab drivers, in my experience, seem to put the hammer down alot!) and any SUV w/pretensions, including, in particular, ML series Alabama Mercedes SUV's, Lexus SUV's, certain of the Rovers, particularly early Discovery's (and i'm sure there are alot more). (I like the solo women drivers commuting to NYC in Excursions, myself,but it is all a matter of taste). Ironically, one of the guys i knew in the 80's who best fit the stereotype yuppie had an alfa GTV or whatever the 6 cyl. one was, so not all yuppies had bad car taste. (n.b. yuppie as distinguished from gold-chain,guido-type ferrari owner, porsche-necktie wearing engineers with teutonic accents,morons driving corvettes, rice-boys,red necks driving pickup trucks, etc.Now i feel like i have offended everyone, just to prove that it is all a stereotype.) BTW, I don't think the " Oh, gee, where's my blackberrie, i need my pocket wizard/gps/cell phone to call my broker before i go to the hamptons" types are any longer called yuppies. They are, unfortunately, doing alot of this when driving the aforementioned vehicles, which is what really pisses me off. Thank-you . I feel much better now. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Junior Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 105 Registered: 12-2001 |
When I think of Yuppies I think of spenders as well. I think of people who don't know the difference between income and wealth. I have to agree with what was said earlier.....posers | ||
| Todd Chen (Tec)
New member Username: Tec Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2002 |
Well, apparently I am some sort of yuppie, depending on your various definitions, and I drive the ultimate yuppie mobile. And it looks like I'm doomed because I sure as hell ain't gonna quit my job, move to the country, wear cheap suits, throw away the cell phone, or stop centering on myself. This yuppie classification must be an 80's thing, cuz I just don't get it. P.S. Possible salvation for me? I'm no social climber (I do not socialize) and I buy stuff because I like it and I want it, not because of what other people will think. | ||
| Randy Ines (Raines)
New member Username: Raines Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2001 |
I sold our mini-van for a monster SUV (4-wheel drive, Baby!). I didn't see the Mercedes SLK, so I thought I'd plug it for a "Yuppie" sports car! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 1978 Registered: 2-2001 |
Of course we are talking about sports cars not Volvos and Suvs. Granted every Yuppie has a SUV. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1493 Registered: 5-2001 |
word on Magoo ! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 1977 Registered: 2-2001 |
I donot feel the Yuppie image is to be careful what they spend. Mostly they are wannabes trying to keep on top in their social circle. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
New member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 36 Registered: 1-2002 |
Frank I hear you 100% on your opinion of the latest SUV fad....This winter once I was outside jogging and here in Minnesota as you know we get lots of snow. Some lady in here big Navigator was trying aimlessly to get started at a stop light on a mild hill and asked me for help pushing with her son. I walked over to the car and noticed only her back wheels were spinning, I asked her if she had four wheel drive turned off, which she quickly and replyed "of course I dont". I asked her if I could look inside and sure as hell she had it set to disabled. I turned it back to the normal setting and off she went up the hill. So sad....I bet her excuse was to when she bought it that it was safer in the snow!! Just wanted to share my experience with the SUV crew. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 584 Registered: 9-2001 |
The definition of Yuppie has changed since the 1980s. The spend generation has grown up and became the 401k generation. And, sad but true, the SUV has become the vehicle of choice. I hate SUVs so much ! They're ugly, handle poorly and are NOT safe, unlike what most people perceive. The only real margin of extra safety they offer is better view because of their height. I almost wish for a fuel crisis so people will go back to sedans, coupes and wagons. | ||
| William_Huber (Solipsist)
Junior Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 183 Registered: 9-2001 |
Sorry, let me rephrase that. Yuppies are derived from the 1980's (Reagan's America) To me, they are long gone. Todays yuppies are much more different than the yuppies of twenty years ago. (Has it really been that long ago?)Todays yuppies are more high tech, some are single parents but more concerned about saving there earnings rather than ruthless spending. Even most F car owners will agree. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 508 Registered: 8-2001 |
Yuppies are defined as " young urban professionals". There's a bit of negative connotation of being a yuppie. Images of young people wearing expensive suits, using cellphones constantly, driving BMWs, and being self-centered are basically what the media portrays as yuppie. Being a yuppie was about "ME! ME! ME!". I must say that I was guilty of doing a lot of the above when I was younger (except I didn't drive Bimmers). | ||
| Todd Chen (Tec)
New member Username: Tec Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2002 |
What's a Yuppie? Clarification please? | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
New member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 35 Registered: 1-2002 |
The biggest yuppie cars of them all are the land yacht SUV's that most drive around. Most of their drivers are to busy putting on makeup, talking on cell phones, or tying to look cool that they dont notice little red cars sitting next to them! As far as sports cars go I would have to say that the biggest yuppie sports car is the Z3 followed a close second by the Boxster Tiptronic. I have to go with the Tip because its the ultimate form of lazyiness while driving. However this doesnt include the boxster S I have met quite a few people who are great car people (for P-Car owners) and all drive 911's or boxster S's | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2001 |
911 in Sweden. Ciao Peter | ||
| Dave Mills (360dave)
New member Username: 360dave Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2002 |
This yuppie drives a 360 around town, and a Camaro on the track. Dave | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1553 Registered: 12-2000 |
BMW Z3 | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
New member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 25 Registered: 12-2001 |
yuppies are dead? I thought YUPpies where "Young Urban Professionals" if thats true there will always be yuppies. As a matter of fact I believe I would be considered one, as well as a lot of people on this site. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Junior Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 103 Registered: 12-2001 |
Boxster or 3 series BMW. | ||
| William_Huber (Solipsist)
Junior Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 180 Registered: 9-2001 |
Yuppies are DEAD. That was the 1980's, but opinions are like assholes & everyone has one. I would say Volvos & Lexus RX300 SUV's | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 1975 Registered: 2-2001 |
I know that here in Fla., Porsche heads the list. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
New member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2001 |
Here in Ohio the yuppies don't really drive sports cars mostly sedans, its the audi a4 or bmw 325. But when they do get a sports car its the CLK or M3. | ||
| David Albright (Dalbright)
Member Username: Dalbright Post Number: 272 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think any year Volvo would be the king of Yuppie kingdom | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 1974 Registered: 2-2001 |
Boy this looks like it is going to be hands down Porsche already. | ||
| David Albright (Dalbright)
Member Username: Dalbright Post Number: 271 Registered: 2-2001 |
porsche boxster | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 507 Registered: 8-2001 |
Yuppie sports car would have to be the Porsche Boxster or 911. For coupe or sedan would be the BMW 3 or 5 series. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 1972 Registered: 2-2001 |
When you think of a sports car that most Yuppies drive, What would it be? |