Ya gotta be kidding! | FerrariChat

Ya gotta be kidding!

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Valentino Toro, Oct 10, 2017.

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  1. FLORIDAsnakeEyes

    FLORIDAsnakeEyes Formula 3

    Jul 7, 2015
    1,146
    Sarasota, Florida
    Full Name:
    OC
    Meh. Is what it is. Nor a big deal imo

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
    I'm 360 Canuck likes this.
  2. Valentino Toro

    May 28, 2017
    37
    So wrong that this guy runs Ferrari.
    Zero sense of style, zero knowledge of the inner workings of a high performance automobile, zero passion for brand history, zero heart for his team.
    110% profit driven at the expense of driving the brand values and reputation into the ground.
    How? Make more Ferraris more available. Double the volume at the cost of eventual and unavoidable production issues - unless they substantially magnify their quality control measures.
    Run 3 shifts 7 days a week to pump them out, increasing the work force numbers? You bet. Or he'll demand they reduce each vehicle's build time.
    Either way, it won't be a special or rare day anymore when a little kid spots a Ferrari on the road and jumps with joy.
    He killed Lancia.
    He's killing Alfa.
    He's got no idea what to do with Fiat.
    He couldn't care less about Maserati.
    He'll suck the rich red blood out of Ferrari until it's anaemic and weak.
    Then he'll put a Chrysler badge on a few of them to pump up the all-new Crossfire and Viper lines.
    Just watch...
    Meh?
    No.
     
  3. FLORIDAsnakeEyes

    FLORIDAsnakeEyes Formula 3

    Jul 7, 2015
    1,146
    Sarasota, Florida
    Full Name:
    OC
    Ew. You make some good points.


    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  4. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    35,280
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    Ferrari is becoming American
     
  5. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    15,978
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    Don't know much about Lancia/Fiat - but the Quadrifoglio and 4C seem to be the best cars to come out of Alfa in years. Maserati's sales have tripled.

    As far as your comments about Ferrari, you're probably right. haha
     
  6. Valentino Toro

    May 28, 2017
    37
    True that those are the best cars to come out of Alfa in a long time. Regretfully that's not saying much for Alfa when those cars are compared with the current crop of competition. If they were segment leaders, as they well should be based on Alfa's historic sporting history, then the brand would now deserve awesome respect. As it stands, nice try but no cigar.
    Regarding Maserati, tripling their sales is like saying they sold 3 glasses of water instead of 1. None of their cars dominate anymore, which is a pity when we remember the past power of this great brand. Why? Because Marchionne thinks it shouldn't be. Because it easily could be with its wider expanse of range offerings. Everything from an entry level Birdcage to a limited edition MC12 superexotic successor.
    I predict Marchionne will eventually turn Ferrari into the kind of brand Maserati should be. That means Ferrari will eventually lose its status of exclusivity and special magic.
    Again, meh?
    Me thinks not. Less exclusivity, less goosebumps.
    But it's happening right before our eyes and in my opinion there should be an uproar about it from all true Ferraristas.
     
    F456M likes this.
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    He is, after all, beholden to the stock holders, now.
     
  8. Valentino Toro

    May 28, 2017
    37
    With or without the condition of stockholders, he would have done it anyway. That's why he manoeuvred the outing of Montezemolo and speaks in weird ways so often.
     
    tifoso2728 likes this.
  9. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Apr 30, 2014
    8,215
    IL
    Full Name:
    DRM
    We're an SUV society, at least here in America. Marchionne thinks like an American, even though he's Canadian.

    Simple as that.
     
  10. Valentino Toro

    May 28, 2017
    37
    I see. Can't wait to see what the Ferrari's central armrest and the Double Big Gulp cup holders will look like then.

    He's Canadian? Where in Canada is Chieti? Which genetic part of his DNA is Canadian? From his Italian father Concezio or his Italian mother Maria? Or do you mean he signed a paper to obtain a Canadian mentality?

    Let's all pray...
     
  11. duxz360

    duxz360 Rookie

    Nov 19, 2016
    19
    That is what happens when your company goes public,your only obligation become your shareholders and they don't care about making great,driver oriented cars, they only care about their take home at the end of the day.Porsche has an SUV,Lamborghini is coming out with the Urus, the Brits gave in a long time ago and now the shareholders don't want Ferrari to be left out of the luxury ,"performance" SUV market.
     
  12. Enzojr

    Enzojr F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2013
    14,001
    West of PDX
    Full Name:
    Tomy
    They are a bit late to the SUV game :(
    At least the depreciation will be fast in a downhill spiral ;)
    And none of them will have ever been off the pavement.
     
  13. Valentino Toro

    May 28, 2017
    37
    #15 Valentino Toro, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
    Soccer kid to his teammates: My mom can pick you all up tomorrow in her Ferrari and take us to the game!

    Wife to husband: Honey, I'm just gonna drive down to the supermarket to pick up the groceries for the week, need anything? And is it ok if I just park the Ferrari anywhere out in front?

    Dad to son: Sure Bobby, take the key, but make sure you keep it under 40 and tell your hot date she owes me one. And no funny stuff in the cargo trunk, she's still 15.

    Sister to brother: No way, I get dad's Ferrari Grandesignorina Saturday! You had it last weekend when you and your friends went to Disneyland! My friends are counting on me Saturday to get us all to ballet practice and then to cheerleader practice. We'll be exhausted so we need the space in the big Ferrari. You can take mom's Ferrari Thumbelina if you just need to go to the post office! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thumbelina_(horse)
     
  14. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    8,178
    Worcester, England
    Full Name:
    Phill J
    You're talking about how Alfa Romeo and Maserati should be segment leaders based on their sporting heritage, but you're completely overlooking the fact that since their glory days - The 1920's~1970's, both companies became a bit of a joke, with a reputation for making unreliable, quirky cars, that suffered corrosion and electrical faults, and were simply not a match for their main rivals from Germany.

    For the best part of 25 years Alfa Romeo abandoned rear wheel drive production cars (ignoring the MC - That's basically a Ferrari Enzo in a different dress), that made their cars exciting to drive, and went with the cheaper production option of front wheel drive. Compared to rival front wheel drive cars, they managed to be one of the best to drive, but the build quality and the materials used to make the cars simply couldn't match their rivals.

    They gained a reputation for being great to drive "when they worked", but they also had a reputation for the interior trim falling apart, for the electrics to fail here there and everywhere, and for being rust boxes.

    People started to avoid them because of their reputation for unreliability, and awful residual values on the second hand market.

    Maserati had a similar problem. By the 80's and 90's they were making uninspiring cars that resembled a Hyundai Stellar! - Don't believe Me?:
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    The cars were more expensive than their rivals from Germany, as were the service and repair costs, and they just weren't built as well as their rivals.

    For both Alfa Romeo and Maserati, sales around the World plummeted as their reputations became more and more renowned for all of the wrong reasons.

    Until recently, buying a brand new Alfa Romeo or Maserati was pretty much the same as simply setting light to your money - The depreciation was that bad!

    Today, Alfa Romeo has finally realised that for the last 25 years,car enthusiasts have been screaming out for a sporty, rear wheel model Alfa Romeo, that is made to a quality more in kin to their pre-70's levels.

    With the latest Guilia, Alfa Romeo has almost given the enthusiasts what they have been asking for, but, yet again there are question marks against the cars. Whilst they are as entertaining to drive as their rivals (from the base model right up to the Quadrifoglio), the interior materials are not quite up to the standard of BMW, Mercedes, Audi or Jaguar, and, some cars are still suffering from electrical issues. Whilst they're mostly minor niggles, for a company trying to shed a bad reputation, they're issues they can ill afford, especially when you take into consideration the market that they are in.

    Maserati have also been making great strides to change their ways and make interesting cars again. Their designs have become attractive again, with sensual curves replacing set square straight angles, chassis' designed to work well with the road, rather than merely being to sit the body on, and much higher quality interiors. The cars now look good, drive well, and feel special once more.

    Alfa Romeo and Maserati are both facing the same problems though:

    1) They're both trying to shake off a poor reputation - And that's never an easy thing to do.

    2) They're both competing in markets that are incredibly tough, and are up against rivals who have been at the top of their game continuously since the 80's.

    3) The motoring press and the general car buying public are looking for any imperfection or problem with their cars, to see if the cars are really improved over previous efforts, or if they are merely more of the same.

    To overcome all three issues at the first attempt would be nigh-on impossible, especially for companies who have had the problems that Alfa Romeo and Maserati have had, and to expect both companies to instantly become segment leaders is just being unrealistic.
     
    paulchua likes this.
  15. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    5,246
    Madison Ohio
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    David A.
    Never would happen if all were still gated shifters! Ferrari made the advancement in F1, and it trickled down into all cars now.
     
  16. Valentino Toro

    May 28, 2017
    37
    Wow, that was a lot of hot air! So, what is your point?

    Are you saying that Alfa and Maserati should be given more time to be segment leaders?

    Time for what? For their designers, engineers, finance and marketing guys to get their heads out of their rectums and finally make great cars again? Or for a new generation of employees to replace them? Or for the current team to earn their keep? Or what exactly? Become experts at what they do? Learn about rocket science?

    Your expectation and acceptance that they produce and deliver less than awesome automobiles in this day and age is the same attitude that losers have, and why losers never win. It's simple, winners have winning attitudes. Losers have losing attitudes. There are no excuses.
     
  17. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 11, 2001
    6,336
    On the Limit
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    Dino
    The 'specialness' that was Ferrari was a big part of the experience. When I was a kid, if you saw a Ferrari every month or 2, it was an event worth treasuring. The first Ferrari I saw as a kid was a 275 GTB/4 attacking a twisty road on a brisk fall Sunday morning. The look. The sound. I was hooked. It was giallo and I can still see the sun gleaming off the Boranis. That was 40+ years ago. Now, any city's valet stands are packed with poseurs' latest prancing pony. The specialness is gone. I can't imagine too many kids are lusting after the station wagon and when they add an SUV, THAT will be the final nail. At least McLaren are special.... for now.
     
    Valentino Toro likes this.
  18. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie

    Oct 11, 2004
    3,292
    Manchester, UK
    Full Name:
    Malc Holden
    I think that is happening or happened here in the UK. School run mum's love the lofty driving position it seems.
    I just wonder at what market the Ferrari SUV will be pitched. You can have a porsche Cayenne for £55k here. I can't imagine a new Ferrari for less than £100k.

    Hopefully unlike the offering from VW/Audi, Porsche, Maserati, Alfa Romeo and Jaguar the SUV from Ferrari will be unique. For me there's only Range Rover that do a SUV I'd aspire to own. They do look rather unique and that is good.
     
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  19. Valentino Toro

    May 28, 2017
    37
    A £100k plus SUV Ferrari??? I sure hope so! It’ll have to be as super luxurious, comfortable and spacious as a Bentayga at least. And go like Hurricane Irma. Minimum 23 inch wheels. And look like a jacked up 4 door what?
     
  20. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Unfortunately you are probably right, and that is indeed a sad thing.
    One has to remember that when Montezemolo was in charge, Ferrari was given the direct control of Maserati and completely missed the opportunity to develop the Maserati brand to protect Ferrari's exclusivity.
    Actually the brilliant Ferrari management of that time was able to sell less Maserati than Ferrari, of which production was doubled (going the easy route of increasing production of the more prestigious brand is not new, Montezemolo went from less than 3,000 / year to 7,000, conveniently forgetting a self-imposed limit of 4,000). In the end FIAT took back the control of Maserati, and all of that happened before Marchionne controlling Ferrari.
     
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  21. Lusso123

    Lusso123 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 18, 2010
    1,686
    NY
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    Marshall Buck
    The one thing I can say about Marchionne which sums him up, is that there is nothing good to say about him.
     
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  22. jjmalez

    jjmalez F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2005
    5,947
    Northern Illinois
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    Joseph
    Remember how Ford nearly killed Jaguar? I give you the X - Type.

    The X-Type wasn’t a terrible car per se, but for any enthusiast who’s afraid of their favorite brand being diluted by corporate ownership, it was the ultimate nightmare. In a nutshell, the X-Type wasn’t a Jaguar. Beneath the feline hood ornament and sumptuous interior lurked a Ford Mondeo, which we experienced in an earlier incarnation as the dreaded Ford Contour.

    Debuting in 2001, the X-Type was a shocking departure from the slick Jag's of yore, and a slap in the face to the brand faithful.

    https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/10-of-the-worst-cars-of-the-2000s.html/?a=viewall

    Pfft!
     
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  23. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie

    Oct 11, 2004
    3,292
    Manchester, UK
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    Malc Holden
    Whilst the X-type might not have been a great car (based on the Mondeo chassis which for a FWD was actually quite good) I think Ford saved Jaguar. Jaguar would not be here today if not for Ford.
    I do think Jaguar have improved (though I do not like the XF and XE one iota) and are selling cars and respected (whereas in the UK many would laugh at Jaguar's poor reliability and build).
     

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