why does a 308 GT4 sell for more then a Mondial

To many the GT4 is a purer design, and the Mondial was created to replace it - but arrived bigger and heavier and slower, until the Mondial 3.2 and Mondial T. Also the handling is dynamic, it has carbs, and is a proper 70's supercar by the same designer as that other 70's supercar beginning with a "C".

 

The Mondial, in its initial iteration, was perceived as a luxury Ferrari, and in 2 valve form was not at all fast. By the time it got more powerful & faster, its long-term reputation was already pretty much beyond hope.
Most people on F'Chat, and certainly those who read this category, know better. That's fine with us, because it keeps prices down. Summary: If you are looking for a useful car with an exotic nameplate that's pretty fast, highly fun-to-drive, relatively easy to work on yourself and has good parts availability, then you are home!

 

When I purchased in 09 the gt4 was cheaper but I chose mondial for the stability of FI. Gt4 was older and a lot were tired but as said above the carbs provide great sound and the handling reportedly feels great. I am also a huge fan of the gt4 cockpit. Look at cockpit pictures. All about the driver and to the point. There was much lamenting over how they were unloved. That has all changed and they started getting restored. As to Dino that is what they were when first marketed. They were not Ferrari. Lots of fun worthwhile research to do on that model.

 

Worldwide production quantities:
1974 76
1975 598
1976 439
1977 320
1978 267
1979 326
1980 112
There were a total of 614 Dino 308 GT4’s imported to the United States

from birdman308.com

I had a '77 I sold last summer. Then we bought a new one back in 1975 from John Apen, who started FAF. First mid engine V8 ever put in street car. Well balanced car, nice handling.

 

Please don't quote wrong figures: it doesn't help. There were 764 GT4 built in 1974, not 76.
Rgds

 

Mr. France
Numbers always help in the collectible world, watches, art, cars, but just because there were only a few made does not meant they are worth a ton of money.

Read it for yourself, seems bidrman308 spent a long time and maybe might know something the rest of us don't.

Ferrari 308 Buyer's Guide

Best ,
John

where did you come up with your number of GT4's .... just curious . I always like numbers.

 

+1
It's one of the best cockpits Ferrari made. Each time it feels like you're getting into a 1970's fighter jet.

 

I'm open to being corrected, but for the OP, the Dino 206 came out as a tribute to Mr. Ferrari's deceased son who was called Dino. The original engine was a V6 of a design developed by the son for racing. The car was a tribute to the deceased son by the father. The GT4 followed the 206 246 and had mixed reviews based on design (Bertone). It was the successor to those beautiful tributes and the predecessor of all mid engine V8 Ferraris. I think of my Mondial as a Dino in that way, as would the 3X8 series, 360, 430, 488, etc. There was a short time where Ferrari had no product for the USA other than the Dino and people showing up at a Ferrari dealer were not smitten with the idea of buying a pseudo Ferrari. So it's suggested for marketing purposes the Dino was changed to Ferrari. Makes me wonder, if history had been different, if Ferrari had multiple new models alongside the Dino 308GT4 would we all be owning Dino's right now?

To me it's a touching and emotional story. Some of the above is recollection and some might be downright wrong or opinion but I think it's close to history IIRC.

It really is a fascinating story and i should do more research.

 

From the official numbers published by the factory itself, as quoted in the annexes of "Autos, die Geschichte machten: die Ferrari 308 und 328, by Dirk-Michael Konradt (MotorBuchVerlag, 1990)". The book is quoting the factory production figures for each year and each variant of all the 308 and 328 models.
And the fact that Birdman's figure for 1974 is simply wrong is easily proved by adding the figures he gives for each year to get the total production: you fall short of 700 cars for the total production of the 308GT4: it only adds-up to 2138, according to Birdman's figures, whereas the factory figure for total production is 2826...always, always cross-check: the simple addition proves that Birdman is clearly wrong for the 1974 production figures.

Rgds

 

I recall a few years back (10 + ) when the 308GT4 was the unwanted red headed step son of the Ferrari world. Very different today.

I have also noticed growth in Mondial prices and there are fewer for sale these days.

Astronomical growth for 80's Testarossa!

 

I don't think there is that much difference, perhaps $5K. There have been a couple of sales of some pristine over-restored GT4 cars that have distorted people's perceptions of the value of the 308 GT4. The rise of the 246 also gave some folks palpitations but sharing a badge, sort of, means nothing. A good GT4 driver can be bought for $40K. There is a black one in the classifieds for sale that will probably end up selling for $35K. That's about what a good Mondial Cab will bring, excluding the early "ugly bumper" cars and especially the lame 8.

As far as the relative merits of the two cars, the Dino is even uglier than the Mondial (esp. the US bumper version) but the interior layout and feel is better. The Dino rusts like crazy, worse than the Mondial. The drivetrain is pretty much the same, carbs are really inferior to injection, impossible to smog in those places where that counts, and more difficult to maintain. The GT4 is always a coupe, there are no drop-tops or targas. The sunroof is manual and it works well. I don't know why the Mondial went to an electric, in fact there is just too much electric gimmickry in the Mondial. However the GT4 fusebox is equally likely to delaminate.

The only thing that will give the Dino an edge in the long run is there are very few decent survivors. There weren't that many to begin with and a lot have rusted out or been parted out. So if that model suddenly becomes popular, the price will spike faster.

A straight 308 is preferable to either from an investment point of view. I can't think of an example of a 4 seater outpricing a 2 seater of the same make and vintage.

 

Here is ten reasons IMHO:

1) It's rarer.
2) People are starting to appreciate the wedge Bertone design again.
3) Almost all classic cars follow that U dip; it's past the bottom of the U.
4) The mania and appreciation of other 70's Ferrari cars have helped valuation.
5) The ones with high prices restored pretty extensively.
6) The Halo effect of the first Dino is spilling over (thoughts about the 308 GT4 being next?)
7) It has far less negative press. Even though it didn't handle as well as all Mondials, and had the same acceleration as the 8 (later Mondials: QV, 3.2, t were all faster) -
8) Fewer electronics is appealing to many classic car owners
9) It was a "Dino" (the lower end brand) at first - so there is a less critical lens. The MSRP was 2/3 the price of a new Mondial. (inflated adjusted)
10) Being featured relatively recently in the movie Rush helped maybe?
+Bonus #11) Because it's just a great car.

 

10 years ago? Try 5. Check this out. A whole article devoted to questioning if $22,000 is too much to pay. I assume you could have bargained down to 20K

If you look at the comments, many were making fun of the car and price.

 

What are you basing this on (handling and acceleration data)?

Just curious, not arguing. Although I would expect that the GT4 handles better than the Mondial, but I don't have any proof one way or the other.

 

Not that outright acceleration really matters with these glorious classics, and it's been a while since I've done some real world back-to-backs so will reference the bible of Mr Keith Bluemel. EU cars unless otherwise stated (in secs)

0 - 100mph

308 GT4: 16.7
308 GTB: 17.0
Mondial 8 (US): 27.8
308 GTBi (US): 22.1
308 GTB (US): 19.8
Mondial QV: 16.2
Mondial 3.2: 15.8
Mondial T: 13.9

The GT4 sounds fantastic too, albeit in a more raw & organic way than my non-cat (EU) T with Tubi

 

Hi Andrew, great question. It was a surprise to me too. I have collected every single formal road test of the Mondial 8. While some* of the press had reservations about straight line speed, they however were unanimous in crowning the Mondial 8 the best handling Ferrari.

I know this is armchair 'racing' - but it is what it is.

"..it must be icing on the cake for the Mondial owner to know that he has bought not just the most rational Ferrari design, but certainly the best handling one. And if that's a surprise to you, it certainly was to us." MotorSport 1981

"..every component in its make-up standing at alert ready to play its part in ensuring a balance and grip which mark this down as easily the best handling Ferrari." Wheels 1982

"Like other Ferraris, its road manners are impressive. In our skidpad evaluation, the car worked its way up to a delicate oversteering stance, one in which either power or liftoff would swing the rear end out gently. Maximum lateral acceleration was 0.812g, essentially identical to that of our last 308's. We had no opportunity slalom the Mondial, but we'd estimate its performance be in the sam range as the 308's 60.6 mph." Road & Track 1981


"When it comes to getting around corners, the Mondial inspires confidence. the extra foot of wheelbase makes the car feel a good deal more stable than the shorter 308 in practically any operating situation-straight head at high speed, caning it around fast sweeper or scrambling in decreasing-radius sphincter-thighteners." MotorTrend 1981

"The long wheelbase gives the Mondial a decisive advantage over the 308 in straight-ahead stability; ...it turns with the poise of a dancer but only when you turn the wheel." Car 1981


The fact of the matter is - compared to today's cars - the 308 and Mondial *are* dogs. It's just funny how perceptions of the Mondial are so skewed based on regurgitated articles. "I read that somebody's uncle saw in an article that was referencing a book that said the Mondial was crap"


*In 1980 - Car and Driver & Road and Track said it was slow, MotorTrend said it was almost as fast as the 308. (You decide)

 

Beau - here is stats
Included are links to original publications with official road tests.

Don't get me wrong, unfair to compare a car multiple generations ahead of another. Just that if you are laymen and were only exposed to hit piece articles that permeate the web, one would assume the Mondial was slow and handled like a barge. Nothing could be further from the truth, especially the later models.

 

These are out of whack with the data compiled by Keith Bluemel. All the magazine roadtests vary, including those included in "Original Ferrari V8". Results will all be contingent on prevailing conditions and driver ability. Not to mention whether the test car was a Monday morning or Friday afternoon product from Maranello

All we really need to know is that all are engaging to drive, but the GT4 is most raw of the bunch, which started the mid-engine V8 family.

 

I hope my posts are not seen as an attempt to start a pissing match between the Mondial and 308 GT4. I LOVE the 308 GT4. In fact, in this thread as well as my history here in fchat, I applaud the car repeatedly, not once have I denigrated it - on the contrary.

The subject of this thread is why the Mondial is undervalued compared to the 308 GT4. Among the ten reasons I gave, was that there is a lot of bad press/articles about the Mondial. A common criticism of derivative articles is that the Mondial lacked performance.

My posting of stats was not to say the Mondial is 'better' per se the 308 GT4; simply it was to show that the 'poor performance' viewpoint that is part of the mass perception is false.

I don't know what sources or methods Keith Bluemel used - but I have posted every source I have. I think it's a reasonable challenge that the 8 may have been sub-par (despite Motortrend's data.) It's no longer a question by the time the QV, 3.2, and t came out...yet the perception remains..hence my assertion that's one of the many reasons Mondials have a deflated value (relative to other Ferrari.)

Many people/articles still refer to the performance of the Mondial 8 (only around 1 out of every 10 of all Mondials in produced) in all measures to critique the car.

I find myself in an odd situation grateful (since it allowed me to acquire the car on the cheap) but I do feel compelled (at least here on fchat) to set the record straight with all historically available information.

 

here is every single formal test done by a publication across the Mondial line. Btw, I have copies available for all to review online for each and every one of these full tests.

If I may be as bold to assert, I believe I have the largest and most complete internet archive of Mondial literature outside Maranello.

P.S. I've noticed European publications have consistently gotten better results. Ringers? Cats? PR Fluffing? Who knows. I do know a member here took a stock t and hit 13.81 1/4 mile and another at 14.2 and recorded it on YouTube.

Nothing to brag about Circa 2018 - but for 1989? Not bad.
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I didn't take them as such. I'm a GT4 owner that loves the Mondial as well. Great cars. The Mondial is the prettier car. GT4 more raw. You can't go wrong with either.

Thanks for your quotes/links above. Interesting reads for sure.

 

Thanks Dom for your kind words! I have quite of a few friends that own the 308 GT4. Every experience I've had in and out has been glorious. All I know is the appreciation of the car is well deserved, and I only expect it to grow.

Here's wishing you many miles of continued joy!

 

EU cars were generally slightly up on available power compared with US versions.

I agree that it was unfortunate the Mondial 8 was considered somewhat lacklustre by many, which laymen then used to spread aspersions across all variants.
The fact that Hollywood chose the Mondial for many films is testament to a well designed car that cuts through the bland. They drive very well too

 

I love both cars very much. I've never owned a 308 GT/4, but I'd love to have one one day.

I think the reasons are as others say. There are fewer 308 Dino's. Also in terms of looks, while I like the Mondial ever so slightly better over all, I would say this -

The details of the Mondial borrow from older Pininfarina cars in very subtle ways (like the door handles for example). It has echoes of the past and visions of the future in it's design. The Dino is a purer design. Pure 70's. Nothing about the car echoes the 60's Ferraris, and very little made it through into future Ferrari designs. The cockpit looks like it came right out of a spaceship from a futuristic Italian Cinecitta flick. It is a unique one-off in the history of Ferrari road cars, and I think that hurt it's value for a long time. Angular instead of curvaceous, Bertone design instead of Pininfarina, and unless the dealer switched the badges to help sell the car, for the first few years it wasn't even badged as a Ferrari...it wore a Dino badge until the factory changed mid run. You should have heard some of the trash talking those cars used to take from the unwashed masses. It was brutal (and undeserved)...similar to the Mondial.

Nowadays the stigma of all of those things have, as Paul said, passed the low point of the "U" arch, and they are seen as exciting historical points of interest, adding mystique to the 308 Dino.

The Mondial hasn't done that yet. Although I think it will someday. Up until a few years ago, a lot of car people spoke very disparagingly about the 308 Dino. Then all of a sudden, it was cool. This is a common pattern with old cars. Same thing happened around the same time with old 911's. What was once a junker sitting on blocks in someone's garage became a "rare early 911s". Those cars went from under 20k to nearly 200k almost overnight. And don't forget people used to freely cut up 250 GTE's and 330's to make replica 250 GTO's! Nowadays that is seen as sacrilege. It's just the hungry eye of the market looking for it's next "unearthed" discovery.

The other thing I'd say is that Dino values (308 & even 246) seem to be sliding back a bit from where they were a couple of years ago. The 246 will never be a "cheap" Ferrari again, but I'm not so sure about the GT/4. While some are still asking $80k for a GT4, I don't see many selling at that price. There have been 2 very nice drivers for sale on this site alone that haven't moved quickly, both priced around 40k. One has been on the market for about a year, much to my surprise. A nice Mondial will cost you about as much, or more, depending on the model and condition. So I think we're seeing a leveling of the playing field there.

Bottom line, they're both amazing cars. Just different. One is pure 70's, the other very 80's.