spec miata... thrilling or no? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

spec miata... thrilling or no?

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by bpu699, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    You're right. But in my little beancounter heart, I can't escape the money part. A good spec miata costs maybe $20k. One get off in a Ferrari can cost $60k. Stuffing a Miata into T2 at TWS, no problem. Doing the same with a Ferrari? No can do. I admire those who actually race Challenge cars, but I wouldn't be able to do it even if I had all the tea in China.
     
  2. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I never made contact in Challenge car 10 years of racing, even hard racing. Just something about racing Mazda's I had damage every weekend. :) The real expense Challenge car is tires, bearings, alternators, and belts. Also if you start getting competitive and want 10-20 extra HP you pay $10k for a top end. :)
     
  3. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    When I ran my 348C on dot-r tires of the day...hoosier S04 iirc I was at 1:33 and I was super slow then since I'm only slow now. The last SCCA SM race at WSIR in march best time was 1:36.5. So 1:33 in the 348 vs. today's SM with all the years of development and the SM7 hoosier tire is way better than anything we had in the mid 90's.
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    And for all the guys who think all the SM's are so close in spec...What do you think the top guys are spending on their SM motors? Does anyone remember how the top 6 cars got DQ'ed at the Runoffs for the fancy expensive interpretation of the rules? It took the #7 car to win the Runoffs with a legal "cheaper" car.
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    few years ago I checked into the best new SM builds and they were close to $60k. For a spec stock class, something is fishy!
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I rest my case..."we call than cheap spec class my a$$"
     
  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    true you can spend $10-15k and be within second of the "developed" cars.
     
  8. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Wow! Way closer than I thought.
     
  9. JimEakin

    JimEakin Formula Junior

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    Well, I ran SCCA in an EP bathtub. I set the class lap record at Riverside and qualified for the Nationals at Road Atlanta. It was more that I didn't want to go off and mess up my car. So not a driver issue, just driving within the limits of a street car.
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I agree then. DE type driving street cars only people that go 100% or past are ones that don't know where 100% is. :) However, when jumping into street cars I've always been able to go 98% all that considered, maybe counts for 1-2 seconds a lap.
     
  11. JimEakin

    JimEakin Formula Junior

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    Also a different perspective from being crazy fast in a race car at 25 and then not having driven competitively for 30 years when I drove the 348.
     
  12. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    I run karts at Atlanta Motorsports park.. and have several SM friends who drive them on the car track as well... I think the fun factor is about the same for Karts & SM....its all about the competition.

    you can be miles out in front in your 458 = boring or you can be miles behind in your SM... what you want is competition at your level = the most fun!!! if SM is too $$ go to karts... just as fun with a lot less $$$ cost... and just as much fun & Thrills... and learning to drive well!
     
  13. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    I have a former student and Ferrari owner that has gotten into SM and loves it.
     
  14. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Just updating an old thread... Was shopping for a spec Miata and bought *** wait for it *** a caged bmw z3 1.9 :).

    A local race prep team had a bunch of these cars they used for high performance track education/rentals. Car has been a track car since new, with a beautifully installed cage, and a 4 cylinder motor that puts out 136 HP on a good day :). Well, maybe a tad more with out the cat, free flowing exhaust. And, the car is gutted, so I suspect it will be fine as a HPDE car... Has aftermarket suspension and later wheels.

    From what I have read, these things are power equivilent to a Miata, but a bit heavier, and more suspension challenged.

    Anyone have thoughts on how this will do at HPDE events? I figure, spec wise, it sounds awefully close to an early 944. Same hp, same 0-60, etc...

    Not exactly what I was looking for, but it was available, looked like fun, and came with an older Race Keeper video/tracking system.

    Bang for the buck, seemed worth trying.

    If I crash it, which I won't (I won't... Really...), it cost less than the trailer it rides on... :)

    Bo
     
  15. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Team stradale car?
     
  16. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Yep...

    Any info on them? Saw some YouTube videos of them being used, but hard to tell much. Car mechanically looked sound. Cosmetically needed tons of love...
     
  17. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    I was a member at Autobahn for ten yrs and stored two racecars with them for around 5 yrs, good bunch of guys. not bad. I ve driven the z3s they are ok. spec miata is more my specialty though. or was anyway. bigger group of drivers throught the country.
     
  18. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    How much slower than a spec Miata are the z3s? Not looking to whiz by people, but hope to keep up with miatas and 944s...

    Any info on the driving experience with them appreciated. First hpde with the car is next Thursday.

    Bo
     
  19. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    m o m e n t u m, my friend
     
  20. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I think it will do great! I stock BMW is already a good safe chassis that feels good when you drive it and a cage takes it to the next level of safety. Harnesses today have lower stretch than of the past. I would still wear a head and neck restraint and I am partial to HANS because the pros have proven them time and again. We go on track to have fun. Regardless of horsepower if you are having fun that is all that counts. Even if you have 500hp there will always be a guy faster or a guy with more horsepower. If you want more parity you can always race or time trial in a appropriate class.

    By the way, a car gutted out with a cage has different attributes than a streetcar you take to the track. for example egress is much more difficult in a caged car. If you don't already have a dedicated fire system in there put one in. HPDE's don't require window nets or driver's suits. But I would wear a driver's suit in any caged car and use window nets and a center net if the seat is not a containment seat. A Z3 is a pretty small cabin inside and it could be difficult to put a containment seat inside. Well placed Nets can really up your safety.
     
  21. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Thanks guys...

    FBB, I have always appreciated your race car insight, it's one of the reasons I went to a caged car. Have the race seats, harnesses, neck gear, etc.

    Assuming the car is reasonably fun to drive, fire system goes in next. Also using it to teach my teen boys to autocross. Last thing is going to be cosmetics.

    I don't need a fast car, just don't want to be a rolling chicane...

    My favorite track is road America. The 930 was a hoot there and kept up with most traffic nicely. Bit worried about taking this car out there with the PCA... It's clearly on the slow end, hopefully won't be an issue... Will run it in the novice group as that's the slowest...

    Next week will be at the Milwaukee Mile. That a short track, good for a car like this...
     
  22. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Teen Boys! Auto-x is a perfect start. I even made my daughter auto-X and then do performance driving schools on racetrack. It made her a much better street driver. Number 1 way our teens get seriously hurt is in a car. Miles behind the wheel lowers their risk as they gain experience. Auto-X and performance driving speeds up their skill set. In street driving school they learn to turn the wheel into a skid. It is on the driving test. In on track performance driving school they physically learn to do it on the wet skid pad. Those skills are huge.

    Rolling chicane is not an issue. Number 1 rule of track driving the guy complaining is usually the idiot! To skilled drivers NO car is an issue.
     
  23. Bisonte

    Bisonte F1 Veteran
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    So, how'd it go?
     
  24. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    It was fun :). Did I mention that my boys were just learning to drive stick? Felt bad for the instructor, he was a nice guy...

    KIds loved it. They had a hard time engaging the clutch from a start, kept killing the motor while in line. Did the whole course in second gear...

    It was kinda cute seeing a caged car with some old sponsor stickers on it going 30mph through the course... Their perception of speed was that they were flying through the course... When they saw the video of their "actual" speed they were surprised...

    It was a great, very long, day...

    Next time, 3rd gear! Oh, and more than 4000 rpm :)
     
    Bisonte likes this.
  25. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    I did take the car to a couple HPDE at the Milwaukee mile, for SCCA. Small track. First time around they put me in intermediate, and I was clearly the slowest guy out there. Part of that was the car, a lot of it was lack of skill and familiarity with the car. I also had the abs/asc/check engine light/abs/etc all on. I didn't feel very confident in the car... First time out the rear end was sliding all over the place. One of the instructors noticed that the front tires were 200 wear, the rears 300 wear... So, changed those out.

    Fixed the abs/asc/etc for the second track day. New rear tires. Diagnosed the check engine light as an o2 sensor (lacks CAT too...)... I usually shut all the stability software off, as it really slows the car down in any aggressive corner - feel like you are applying the brakes mid turn....

    I asked to run in the beginner group the second time, car did fine keeping up, passed occasionally, but not bad. I am not an aggressive driver. There is only so much I can do against vettes, vipers, boxsters, race prepped miatas, etc.

    I suspect that as my skill and familiarity grows, keeping up in intermediate won't be an issue... at least in the turns. In the straights, I just get out of the way... ;)

    Bo
     

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