Michelin XWX tire question | FerrariChat

Michelin XWX tire question

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by jww427, Sep 23, 2017.

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  1. jww427

    jww427 Karting

    Oct 31, 2016
    148
    White Post Virginia
    Full Name:
    john w. warner IV
    Hello all!

    This is a dumb question but Ill ask it anyway.
    My XWX tires are 17 years old but in good condition.
    I know tires should be replaced at 8-10 years old, but does it matter that the XWXs have a stiff construction for high speed? Do they last longer?

    Thanks
    JWW
     
  2. doccharlie954

    doccharlie954 Formula Junior

    Jul 27, 2010
    256
     
  3. doccharlie954

    doccharlie954 Formula Junior

    Jul 27, 2010
    256
    NOPE, dump them. Tires are way past their life.
     
  4. afwrench

    afwrench Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2004
    593
    NY
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Hi John, there is no way that you should depend on tires this old.Puttering around the show field is one thing but any real driving is unsafe at this point.Another thing to consider if you drive the car is that the feel and ride will be transformed with new rubber on the road .You will enjoy the car so much more.Best of luck,Mike
     
  5. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,772
    FWIW - I just came across some tech that mentioned the rubber ages better when used because preserving chemicals come to play. I don't remember where / what article. Maybe find on google? But to your question, Fresh Michelin really are not that hard. Even the sidewall. Yes, stiffer than other tire models; But unfortunately, the tires age like fuel lines, rubber trim etc. even with the stiffer construction. Tires handling changes dramatically when they age, and safety is a very real concern. I agree with other posts to replace and you'll be happier.
     
  6. jww427

    jww427 Karting

    Oct 31, 2016
    148
    White Post Virginia
    Full Name:
    john w. warner IV
    Thanks!
    That confirms my suspicions.
    JWW
     
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    Tires on higher performing cars should not go past 4 years, and for lower performing cars, not past 7 years.
     
  8. jww427

    jww427 Karting

    Oct 31, 2016
    148
    White Post Virginia
    Full Name:
    john w. warner IV
    I agree.
    But when ordering XWXs, sometimes the tires have sat on a shelf.
    JWW
     
  9. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,451
    North Pole AK
  10. flat-12

    flat-12 Formula Junior

    Mar 18, 2011
    351
    Germany
    The Michelin XWX tires should be able to do about 10 years - I have heard from some Michelin guys the structure and rubber isn't equal to normal tires.

    Normal tires should be replaced after about 5-6 years.
     
  11. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    5,141
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    Correct.

    ... from the date of manufacture, not purchase.
    And many high speed rated (abnormal?) performance tires preferably sooner.

    Then again, it's every ones own car, money and safety.

    I couldn't tell how many times I've had chuckle when some one has protested or resisted purchasing new tires for their vintage car, let alone Ferrari, just because "they look just fine..." or "I don't drive the car that much..." "... so it would be waste of money to spend $2K on new ones every 5 or so years !", while that same (Ferrari?) owner might be perfectly happy to spend $10K-$20K on a tool kit that has no bearing for operational safety of the vehicle nor will they likely ever have any practical use for its (cheaply made) contents.
     
    JP365 likes this.
  12. JP365

    JP365 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2007
    1,340
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    John F
    #12 JP365, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
    Funny you say this, because several years ago, I had my rear two borranis rebuilt because the load levelers failed and several spokes broke. When I was having the wheels rebuilt, the dealer asked if they wanted me to order new tires. I asked why, they only have 30,000 miles on them? They responded, that's true, but they're ten years old. I think most of us forget how old our tires are until we get a wake up call. I replace mine every five years now. BTW has anyone found a replacement to the P4000 other than the Coker or Longstone repros? Nothing against them, I ran XWXs for years, I just really liked the p4000s.
     
    TTR likes this.
  13. Michael Foreman

    Jul 11, 2017
    17
    Northeast PA
    Full Name:
    Michael Foreman
    5 years is a must for any car tire, 3 years for an ultra performance tire, and count those heat cycles on anything competition based.

    XWX's have always seemed to wear like iron, but have a limited grip level. You could always use the XWX's as a show tire on the field, and have another set of modern tires mounted on spare wheels for the weekend trips - something with higher grip levels, better noise quality, and tracking down the road.

    The P4000 was a great tire, trying a set of P5's right now on a Maserati
     
  14. JP365

    JP365 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2007
    1,340
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    John F
    I thought about the P5, but it has a T speed rating. Probably fine, but I always want at least one speed rating higher than I will actually drive. OTOH, maybe I need to rethink this.
     
  15. Marks308QV

    Marks308QV Rookie

    Jul 8, 2006
    19
    West Chester, PA
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I just came across this old post and thought I should add some comments from my experience with the Michelin XWX. The Michelin XWX is a very special tire. It was the only tire that could be used on the high performance cars of the day such as Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Aston Martin and the Mercedes Benz 6.3 & 6.9 etc. due to the fact that it was rated for the 150 mph speeds. My first experience with the XWX was with a friends 246 GTS Dino. I was impressed with the summer grip and straight line stability. The faster your speed the more planted the car felt. Then Mark Donahue was using the XWX on the street Camaro's he was making and using the IROC Minilite wheels. He also used one size larger tire on the rear which made a noticeable difference. As a result, I started to use them on my 1970 Camaro that had Dick Guldstrand suspension pieces, re-valved Koni's and 4-wheel disc brakes and I continued to use them for years. They gave my Camaro the same high speed stability and planted feel. I got about 9 months out of a set. I went through a lot of XWX's. They were great tires to drive on but worthless in the winter / snow. I had to keep a set of chains in the trunk. I decided to cut one open and was surprised to see what I found. I first took my jig saw with a metal cutting blade and started my attempt to cut through the tire. I got nowhere. All the teeth were gone. The multiple steel strands forming the bead reinforcement of the tire were hardened steel. I then used my circular saw with a carborundum blade to cut through the bread and then used a new blade on my jig saw to do the rest. What I found was (2) steel belts in each sidewall and what Michelin called a "C-fold" of steel belts in the tread that was essentially 3-steel belts. The "C-fold" was like a "C-fold" paper towel with an additional steel belt in the middle. I doubt there was any tires constructed like this before or after. I knew a Michelin rep at the time and he said that the XWX would always be a 70-series tire to work as it did and the manufacturing process was a secret. Years later, the tire manufacturers started to come out with very wide, low profile tires that had problems with tracking. All that has been worked out and no longer a problem. I do remember a friends Pantera with Goodyear Arriva tires that darted all over the road. I had tried some B.F. Goodrich Comp T/A's when they came out with a 265 width and found them to be decent new, but as they wore, there was absolutely no road feel. I went back to Michelin's and, for the most part, use Michelin on almost all cars I own with the only exception being recently where I put the Continental DWS06 + on my beater, the Honda Odyssey because Michelin does not make the Pilot Sport All Season 4 in a 235/60R18.
     
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  16. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,192
    i replaced very old xwx w fresh xwx tires and didnt notice a big difference in softness at normal speeds.
    but i felt more confident in pushing the new tires.
    old tires are risky.
     
  17. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,269
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    John,

    I am changing my timing belts after waiting too long. Here is the reason I got motivated. I loved the original Piloti shoes and had a bunch of pairs some new in boxes after they went out of business. I loved the way the shoes felt. I started noticing bits of rubber on the ground after driving the Ferrari but could not figure out where it came from and I do not like unsolved mysteries. Once I took apart half the car to find a noise that ended up to be something in the rear ashtray! HA Turned out the Piloti shoe rubber was disintegrating. I checked all the others and the rubber was falling apart and had to throw away my entire collection even new ones in the box. The moral of the story is that rubber deteriorates, some compounds faster than others.

    Rob
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  18. JP365

    JP365 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2007
    1,340
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    John F
    So my interim tires are the Vredestein Sprint Classics on my spare set of Cromodoras. Bought them last year. So far I like them. Not quite as sticky as the old Pirelli P4000 but more than adequate for my driving. We will see what is available next year when the Borranis are done and it is Spring 2022.
     

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