Ferrari 458 Speciale vs Mclaren 650s review

There are numbers from the Speciale track test.

 

What was the laptime on Anglesey please ?

 

1:14.2

 

That was around the 1.55 mile Coastal variant of Anglesey. The second-longest of four different circuit configurations. All the timed laps were done with the car in CST OFF. It also says he was on the regular Michelin Sport Cup 2's.

But we have to take the following into consideration:

 

What does "immedicacy of controls" mean? Evo often write like this, stopped buying the magazine years ago. Pretty photos though.

My personal experience of the GT3 is the controls are more "immediate" if that means turn in, throttle response, and brakes.

 

There are some serious rumors. It seems that the Gt3 was really close to the Speciale on that race track, (where the traction is quite important) and that the 650 S was not so close to both ..

 

Let's start a list of "Ferrari Adjectives" used to describe how it's best:

Drama
Feel
Passion
Involvement
Thrilling
Immediacy
Response
Control
Soul

And a list of "Ferrari Excuses" for the objective less-than-superlatives

Lap times are not everything
I can't exploit all the performance
My resale value is better
Who cares about a drag race
Normally aspirated is better

Now I will admit the 650S has a bit of a harelip for my tastes, but the 458 win is very predictable and simply combine the above and more for why.

 

Isnt that the age old debate on whether you buy the performance numbers or the feel and the answer is its a complex mix of both?

The thing I take away from such tests is how the journalists feel about each car and at least I could tell from reading the article that they really enjoyed the Speciale the most. They basically said its on another planet on the subjective stuff.

I really think the 650S is a big improvement for McLaren but if I were choosing between the two, I'd go for the Speciale. In my case I'm actually happy to hold my 458 because prefer the looks.

 

I think that this time, many will be surprised. Some "British drivers and journalists" in fact, will have to find the right words to tell why the "British 650 S" arrived at 3th place in this comparison (lap times) in a British race track...If rumors are correct of course..

 

Well, two are stripped out track day specials , the other a daily driver convertible. Not really the same kind of cars.

I'd say pass on the Speciale and get a used 12C/458 + GT3 for about the same price as the Speciale.

 

or get a used 12C/458 + GT3 for about the same price as the 650S
On the paper but just on the paper, the 650 S seemed to me and many others, so superior.. I am quite surprised. And I am even more surprised about the Gt3. I can't imagine what the next RS will be able to do..Beleive me if the rumors are correct, at least for track use, the 650 S will have hard times.

 

Again, it's running on lesser tires and it's not a stripped out car designed for the track.

It's a misconception that any of these cars are much better/worse than others. Lets not forget that the 991 GT3, Speciale, and 650S will get schooled even by race cars based on 10 year old platforms

The cars can be made monumentally better if they really needed to be, which is evident when you compared a Speciale to a Challenge, a GT3 to a Cup, or a 650S to a 12C Sprint/GT3. Neither the S, GT3, or 650S are the best they can give you. It's just what they decide to give you based on business plans for the future. They need to be able to upsell you on performance with the next model and there is only so much performance that will ever be available. Have to ration it.

How come there are no lap times for the GT3 and 650S? What is this rumor based on anyway?

 

@noone the 650 S has a better and stronger carbon frame ,she accelerates as a devil , has "similar" weights (since Ferrari seems to be optimistic as usual for the empty weights) and better weight/power ratio, more torque, similar brake system, revised top level suspensions and state of the art of electronic.And so on. It is the best of the best actually apart from P1 so it is not enough to tell that Speciale is a stripped car. Because we would need to discuss what does mean "stripped" for you since the two cars are so similar in concept and for technical contents.... So, I am surprised, I think is normal. I was expecting a different position for the 650 S.Rumors come from people that are more than reliable.And they are British. I have my theory about your question: why didn't they publish the lap times? I think because it was enough embarrassing. At first for the Speciale. To see a GT3 so close to the Speciale is probably unexpected and not desirable. But to see the 650 S at 3th place is probably even worse. Not a polemic of course.Just facts.

 

Well, until we see the times we can't say for sure. Tire advantage alone could change the results of the test. Corsas don't get much love on the M forum and apparently Trofeo R will be available soon.

But anyway, it still stands that the Speciale was designed solely to be quicker on the track. The 650S was designed to just be a better and more exciting car than the 12C. When the GT3 version comes, that should be the comparison.

Does it make sense to compare the lap times of the GT3 to the standard 458? If not, why?

 

For me no problem..I am just asking myself why EVO decided to compare these cars if so different and why McLaren accepted to go there with their technicians knowing that the cars are not comparable.When will arrive the stripped version of the 650 s with about 670 hp it will be easy to say that the Speciale is not at the same level again.At the end a never end story.I much prefer to look at the first realistic comparaison we have available now and accept it for what it is..Now.

 

And some say rear engined cars are "wrong"

GT3 RS will absoloutely murder both the Speciale and 650S. Not bad for a souped up Beetle

That said, Speciale is awesome. Wouldn't mind one.
650S has been butchered while trying to transplant P1's face onto 12C facial structure. No good, IMO.

Let's see what will Lambo and Audi bring with the track-special Huracan/R8.

 

It is rumored that the Speciale beat the GT3 by .02 seconds. Not sure about the 650S time. Keep in mind that the Speciale came to the test/track with a whole contingent of Ferrari factory support. The GT3 came from an owner who just had the engine replaced (all the GT3s' are in the process of having their engines replaced). There was no support staff. Also, consider that a new engine is a tight engine and the GT3 performance will get better.

That said, the Speciale was considered the better car though they all received five stars. Yet, the GT3 at half the price is quite an achievement.

 

uhm, I don't agree.
The speciale ride height is just 10 mm lower than a standard 458 and suspension setup is still quite soft
Basically the speciale is just an improved version of the 458.

Just for reference the 991GT3 came with -30mm ride height in comparison to a standard carrera.

Luque

 

That is incorrect. If you want to solely be quick around a circuit the 458 Challenge is the car for you.

The Speciale was designed to be a more visceral, direct and impulsive driving experience. The Sport Cup 2 tires alone stand for 1 second of the reduction in lap time around Fiorano. Thus in theory, the car is only 0.2 seconds quicker around Fiorano than the Italia. The highlight of the Speciale is the improved driving experience. An increase in performance is a biproduct of the measures taken to improve the driving experience.

I don't care about numbers. Even if the Speciale was beaten on that day by the 650S and GT3 (which it was not), would it have made it a worse car? I think not.

 

Is this on EVO's website yet?

 

and since we both have the same informations (I was told 0,3 sec), you sure even know what they told about the 650S . This is why I wrote that they will have hard times to find the right words this time...

 

You are right about the RS. I wrote this here several times. My experience comes from the Gt3 on race tracks and I assure you that the Gt3 is very delicate in some conditions so what you are writing will be true only in the hands of very very very skilled drivers or on slow race tracks.On the Ring the RS will not have enough horse power to balance the superiority of the Speciale in my opinion.But on Hockenheim short no problems for the RS.This is why the rear engined cars are considered wrong. If you are not able to manage them, you can loose easily and abruptly the control at speeds that can be very very dangerous..

 

But what is the ride height of the GT3 vs the 458?

People on here would be up in arms if you compared a 458 to a GT2/GT3/RS, but it would be OK to compare a Speciale to anything I think.

Besides, how much of the lap time of the Speciale is down to running Cup 2 tires? Not sure what tires the GT3 is running. 650S is running Corsas I think.

 

As the GT3RS doesn't exist, claims about what it will do are just [hopeful] speculation. It's going to be 90-140HP down on the Speciale and 650S regardless; with same tires/driver/venue it's difficult to see how it will keep up except on low-speed tracks.

 

Im not sure but its on their iPad app- if you like Evo and have an iPad its worth getting.