Ferrari 355F1 Berlinetta (Track Day) | Page 5 | FerrariChat

Ferrari 355F1 Berlinetta (Track Day)

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by Rothbauer_Racing, Jun 18, 2013.

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  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
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    In my experience the harder I try the worst I get. I think that is a common result. The reason is because we all want to try harder to go faster but what seems to happen is that when we try that hard we focus in and concentrate on small details, that exact braking point, that exact clipping point. What we should be doing instead is looking up and out driving the car not driving the track. When we sharpen our focus and shorten our vision everything comes up faster and we react vs. anticipate. We stop looking through corners. We look at that exact braking point instead of looking ahead to where we are off the brake and on to power.

    Mental mumbo jumbo aside if you aren't throwing new tires on every day or even a few times during the day you are chasing degrading performance. Track surface and temperature including ambients make seconds worth of difference. If your tires are aging and your laptimes are the same you are actually getting faster. If conditions change and the qualifying times of your opponents are growing but yours are the same you are getting faster. If your cold pressures are "X" the hot pressures and resultant grip will be different with different ambient temps and different track surface temps despite the same starting point. All I'm trying to say is there are many many variables and your not lowering your laptimes might be a more positive result than you realize.
     
  2. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2007
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    The current weight is: 3276 lbs minus me at 170 lbs = 3106 lbs for the car alone. I think the 355 challenge car alone was allowed to be a min. of 2910 lbs.

    Going thur the transformantion at each corner with the 14" rotors, brakes , springs, studs & nuts it gained 5 lbs at each corner with the challenge items vs OEM.

    From what I remember last year the 355 Challenge cars w/ driver were somewhere around 3070 lbs when they come off the track and into the tech garage for weight measurements.

    Maybe I need to throw out the Cassetta Player and CD Changer and get a light weight battery? Lol! just don't take away my power windows...


     
  3. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2007
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    I agree with this! At some point it was like a mental battle to get under 2:40 and I lost most likely over focusing on a varity of things... It felt faster but, was actually 1 second slower. :( With no camber on the track it's all car and aero + driver skill at COTA.

    I did mange to get an instructor on the last day and even he told me your just going to have to be patient on learning the limits of this new setup. Based on my drive level he said we have lots of room to improve on so getting to those times will just take seat time.

    As far as times to compare I guess the good thing is when we do go back in October during the Forza Challenge Race I should be more comfortable with the new setup and we will have same day/weather and lap data to compare. Only then will I see how far off I am to the others 355 Challenge cars. As you said the weather conditions and track temps do affect the outcome of each race.

    Ciao,

    Stanislaus R.R.

     
  4. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    200lbs is quite a bit, roughly equivalent to 20hp gain in straight line acceleration without considering gains in corners/braking.
     
  5. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2007
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    I wonder what the Gruppe M intake for the 5.2 would yield over this 3.4 mile track?

    Add that to 200 lbs lighter and things could get exciting? Of course the Gruppe M intake would not be allowed for 355 Challenge.

    I know my 355 Challenge Muffler is 17 lbs and that will be going on soon...
     
  6. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    We got Dana's 355C down into the 2800 range by gutting the whole interior, gutting the engine bay of on-race parts, losing the glass in the back window for plexi. We are under the impression that gutting the crash worthy bumpers for aluminum struts and a CF front and rear bumper panels would have gotten us down into the 2600 range.

    And that is with a FIA spec steel roll cage added....
     
  7. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

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    I was really hoping to keep the interior, looks like I may just keep a few items to hide some of the bulk electronics?

    How much weight loss would the interior delete generate? It's just carpet and padding.

     
  8. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
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    You my friend are slidding down a slippery slope. Many have followed your path including me. Anyway, everything adds up. You could have the newest FIA 5 yr seat in carbon that is 8lbs but the slider track is another 8lbs so the passenger seat at its lightest is 16lbs. Probably it is heavier. Add in the window guts and carpet padding and sound insulation goop painted onto the sheet metal floor and it is a lot of weight. When I gutted my 348 for racing I cut off all the 8mm studs that held adel clamps for hose and wiring routing and had a cool whip container weighing under 10lbs! I got down to 2780lbs with me in the car ready to race.
     
  9. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2007
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    Well I guess over time a few items could be removed to lighten it up? That will be one of those areas that gets explored when time permits. I was not really wanting to gut the interior when I started this project. I might have to think twice?

    Back to suspension options:

    1. CUSTOM OHLINS 2 WAY ADJUSTABLE REMOTE RESERVOIR DAMPERS, INCLUDING CUSTOMER UPPER MOUNTS

    2. JRZ Remote-Reservoir, Adjustable shocks

    3. Moton Club Sport Dampers

    4. OEM Challenge Bilstein damping + ECU

    Can one system listed above really make that much of a difference on the 355CH? I guess since some might be using a different spring setup, it just might? I didn't really pay attention last year to who was using OEM Bilstein.
     
  10. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2007
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    This is from Saturday in the "White" Advanced Solo Run Group during the PCA Club Race/DE Weekend. Look how close we all get at times!

    I forgot to plug in the microphone so, lower the volume as it's pure wind noise. It's a spare iPhone 4S on my original pana-vise mount so, it's a bit shaky at times.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGMRiUOhyS4

    Enjoy!
     
  11. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    You're chasing seconds, those will get you scant tenths. Due to the expense, I would personally wait until you are chasing that last second or so (ie, when your power/weight is in the same ballpark as the cars you're chasing and your driving is up to their standard) rather than do that first. Just my opinion, but there are seconds to be found in driving skill and tenths to be found in equipment, so I'd spend the money on track time and weight reduction first unless there's some handling flaw you're trying to solve.
     
  12. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
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    I would agree unless it is known among 355C guys what setup works and what does not. If you have the right set-up not only will you be faster but you will learn faster too if you don't have to fight the car. Personally, it is very satisfying being competitive in an uncompetitive car. The converse is like a big guy picking on a little guy. There is just no glory there.
     
  13. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

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    #113 Rothbauer_Racing, May 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There's no question that more power is coming, it's just a matter of days before we arrive at the Circuit of the Americas in Austin, TX for our 4th annual PCA Club Race/DE Event.

    I had Travis from Fabspeed send me some Sport Headers and let me say they are Nice! The combined install with the Challenge Exhaust (Muffler) is a new tone to my ears. I went with the Muffler vs. Straght pipe due to sound issues as I drive my car to and from the track.

    More to follow as we ramp up to depart to Austin, TX.
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  14. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

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    #114 Rothbauer_Racing, May 6, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Same setup as last year + Fabspeed headers & Challenge muffler.

    Results after 4 sessions Faster, running 2:39's and getting refreshed with the track, tomorrow we go all in and see what can be extracted from the 355F1 Evolution.
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  15. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Excellent!
     
  16. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

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    #116 Rothbauer_Racing, May 6, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Watch temps on those for camber...
     
  18. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
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  19. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

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    [ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvn2iHO0pNo[/ame]
     
  20. Yassa

    Yassa Formula 3
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    nice vid!
     
  21. Robb

    Robb Moderator
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  22. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

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    #122 Rothbauer_Racing, May 10, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Greg,

    The Ferrari F355's from Ponoco Sports Cars really set the bar for 2015 at COTA!

    Their Best Lap Times: 2:31.xx (This is just outright Fast!!!)

    Flashback to 2014 FORZA Challenge Club Racing, best time from each 355 Challenge car during the 30 minute race:

    02:34.625
    02:35.289
    02:34.621
    02:38.420
    02:41.940

    I am now moving my way up as I am in the 2:38's and my car weights 3250 lbs with me in it and I even lost weight (down to 160 lbs) for this weekend and the car is 1/2 tank full. I still have no aero in front or rear wing for addition downforce and a mild front camber setup. The journey continues...

    I used this vid before I went to COTA to aid in where I could improve.

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  23. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 30, 2007
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    I wouldn't compare your car to the 355s that run in CCR with stiffer springs, shocks, aero, etc.

    still a 2:38 in a road legal 355 is impressive. well done :)
     
  24. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

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    2:38 is a great time. It's great to see the F355 Challenge on the track. When I campaigned the 355, I remember setup and ride height was a big factor. The Pirelli slicks also have a sweet spot tire pressure setting.
    I would find someone running the car and pick there brain.
     
  25. Rothbauer_Racing

    Rothbauer_Racing Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2007
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    COTA PCA Club Race & Advanced Solo DE 2016

    Day 1 (Friday)
    Session 4 - 2:39.94 (Best for the Day)
    Tires: Pirelli Trofeo R
    Fuel: VP101
    Tire Pressure Front/Rear: COLD 24 psi (HOT F/30 and R/30).
    Temp: 86.8 deg
    Dew Point: 53.5 deg
    Humidity: 31 %
    Pressure: 30.03 in

    Because not everyone can attend on Friday do to work it was very light traffic out on track, giving me tons or laps to just go for it.

    Day 2 (Saturday)
    Pirelli Slicks Front: 245/645-18 Rear 305/645-18
    VP101 Race Fuel

    Chasing a white Cayman Gt4 @ T11 they just are a bit faster on the straights but, some kind of magic in the turns as they just advance further away. We had maybe 2 or 3 GT4’s in our run group, all with various driver skills. This is a PCA DE Advanced run group and all drivers are very good regardless of Porsche model.

    As the sessions went on various issues starting arising. The power steering reservoir starting spewing out fluid for some strange reason? This was a first. Close to each session on lap 5 my F1 light would blink mid way from T11 thru T12? This is the long straight away and would not let me shift down to second for T12, had to do it in 4th gear! Talk about crawling out of a turn! The brakes were never a problem although I did have to manage my braking better so to not overheat the slicks. Most of Saturday was just to much traffic and various car issues to get a decent lap. Light vibration up front might be a wheel bearing as well? I enjoyed just passing as many Porsches as possible. The Ferrari 355F1 Evolution is just Awesome!

    Day 3 (Sunday)
    Pirelli Slicks Front: 245/645-18 Rear 305/645-18
    Fuel: Exxon Mobil 93

    Session 2 was great with everyone cooperating allowing the faster drivers to pass more quickly. It had been discussed many times in the DE class room. I did only one session on Sunday as the weather pattern shifted to rain and the slicks came off reverting back to the Trofeo R’s but, I passed on driving the remaining afternoon and packed up as I had to drive back to Houston from Austin and the Trofeo R’s are not the best for the rain on street or track. All in all it was a fun 3 day track event, my skill level and confidence is definitely improving and we look forward to our return to Circuit of the Americas soon with many of the other organizations offering track day events.

    Another 75+ laps to add to my history profile at COTA! Practice does make for a more proficient driver.

    Overall Review: The Fabspeed headers picked up 3.5 mph on the back straight from T11 to T12 as for the other areas, I still need to break down the data and see the details.

    Tell then keep tracking.
     

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