Depreciation Crystal Ball

I hate to say it, but the Cali is the worst car Ferrari has built. I just had one in yesterday. 21k Km on it, and the thing was falling apart. The interior leather around the windshield was falling off, it made noises I have never heard in any car, the damn thing was falling apart as I drove it. Full Ferrari history from new. What a mess of a car.

 

Maybe that's also why the owner is not using an authorized dealer for service?

The Cali is built with the same materials on the same assembly line as other V8 Fcars so I kind of doubt it would be much different in build quality. Really.

However, there's no accounting for what some people do to their cars and as I said, the owner does not have to do all service (and repairs) at Ferrari, so a full Ferrari history means nothing. Accidents that are not reported would also not register if repaired quietly.

 

The build quality of the car is horrendous. Chrysler parts? In a Ferrari? Leather falling off the windshield pillars? Push buttons falling out of the dash? Seats that look like it has 200k on it? Hell my e39 BMW looks newer then that price of crap. The car is an insult to the ferrai name. I wish I had taken pictures and recorded the noises this junk was making on the road test.

 

Yes, we understand you hate the car but the Chrysler parts you mention are also in the other Fcars.

Your comments would be more credible if you were the owner of a 1-owner Cali. You sound like you haven't sat in many Fcars or supercars. Most Cali owners would not agree with you. The Cali is a great car that delivers a unique breadth of wonderful driving experiences... that is if you know how to drive it properly.

FWIW, I also owned a 1998 540i sport 6MT and it was a great car and I took very good care of it but its original exterior and interior looked as old as the car actually was when I traded it in... for my Cali30. The E39 has water-based paint like other cars of its era and it would pit if you spat on it. Towards the end of my ownership, the driver seat developed a stiff spring right where I would plant my tailbone (my Fcar dealer can vouch for that!). I think I would prefer the Cali's seat.

Sorry you had a bad day.

 

Modern Ferraris are quite good in build quality. Compared to my past BMWs (including an M5 and a couple M3s), which always seemed to need repairs, my modern Ferraris have needed next to nothing except routine maintenance (fluid changes, mostly).

Mainstream parts or components are not necessarily bad. If, for example, Chrysler sources alternators for millions of mainstream cars, and they use the same one on a Ferrari, that's a good thing. Chrysler can't afford to have poor quality components on such high volumes, or the red ink from warranty repairs or replacements will drown them in red ink. If a supplier makes only a few thousand, and they are of poor quality, the lost contract won't sink them. But a million alternator order gone wrong could bankrupt them if it's cancelled.

 

Much different experience with my E39 1998 540i Sport. The black Paint and beige leather is in mint condition. Seats are 26-way Comfort seats (from upgraded 7-Series) and are fantastic. Body is made with virgin steel and lined inside with poly sound deadening. I still have it with 89K miles but its been stored in my garage for many years now. German electronics fail, window regulators break, sunroof motor shot, and its way overdesigned. Needs catalytics as well. Want to get it running again - its just been sitting and I love that car. For five years, regardless of miles, it will provide German showroom reliability. Then stuff brakes at random. But the body and interior are likely better constructed than the Cali IMO.

 

You need to drive a 5th generation QP GTS ; beautiful Pininfarina styling, great engine, fantastic handling and the noise is delicious 😀 Best sedan I have owned.
Here is a pic of mine ; bought it last year 2013 model CPO warranty until 2019 in the low 60s -- cannot beat cool factor for that money IMO
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Well, you have very few miles on your 540is but I'm glad you are still enjoying your it. My odometer was also only at around 170,400 km as I also like to drive my pickup trucks. However, I did a lot of regular nonstop 6 hour highway drives in my 540is. My car also had the comfort seats and when I got out after 6 hours it was like I only drove to the local supermarket. I didn't feel stiff, sore or tired at all. The car was designed to be driven at 220-240 kph all day on the Autobahn. But alas, the downside to a lot of high speed driving is that the soft paint is sandblasted to rat$h*t and the windshield picks up lights from oncoming traffic at night like an overpopulated planetarium celestial display. The night view becomes hazardous. The driver side skirt of my car also started to rust, it's made of steel after all.

The 540is 6MT was not an easy car to fling about. It was tail-happy and the Getrag 6MT/M62 combination had to be finessed with a lot of care unlike setups in the 538is or 530is. Steering linkages for the 540s were also made of steel instead of aluminium. You have to struggle with the tail to get the car to 8/10s and 10/10s should not be attempted at all unless it's just straight-line.

The E39 ECU display was a catastrophe because the LEDs' electrical contacts were intermittent with ambient conditions and the display would usually only display part of the information. It's a known problem and BMW USA had a free-swap policy for it but BMW Canada simply ignored the complaints about this horrible glitch. I was truly pi$$ed.

All the same, it was truly a wonderful car to drive and much better than most new cars even at 15 years of age. The M62B44 was a perennial #1 fixture on the Ward 10 list. I hated to trade my 540is in but all cars get old if you use them a lot. The 540is also has essentially no aftermarket resale value after 10-15 years, unlike an Fcar. It did not make any economical sense to fix all the issues I accumulated with my 540is. A dealer could do that at a fraction of my cost as a used car for an enthusiast on a limited budget.

I remember driving her for the last time on my way to FoO, to hand the keys to the sales manager for his test drive. She was perfect, like the first day I had her. There was something very special about that particular car. I had my aftermarket OZ rims on and she looked very distinctive with the Helle Euro angel-eyes headlights, clear signal lights and LED tail lights that I had installed myself many years ago.

The unibody of the 540is is of galvanized steel with a lot of shipping wax sprayed into the body panels. The California uses a lightweight aluminium skin over an aluminium space frame and the Cali30 also uses 10 different kinds of aluminium to save weight. The 540is doesn't care about weight-saving as the industry did not have the emissions restrictions that today's cars have. But because of its unibody structure, the 540is has a higher COG than necessary, making it more tricky to handle at speed and when cornering. The space frame approach of the Cali is from race cars and is clearly superior for handling. When you drive the 540is on normal roads, you need to keep it within 7/10 to 8/10ths because its mild understeer tends to suddenly turn into snap oversteer due to its RWD combined with its overly light tail (or heavy front end, whichever you prefer). OTOH, the Cali has essentially neutral steering, heavier rear end and exhibits progressive oversteer which can be easily modulated. The beauty of the 540is over the 528is is the M62 engine, which can be carefully coaxed to easily overhaul I-6 E39s under most conditions. It was more fun to drive than the I-6 cars.

The 540's leather upholstery is of a thinner, lighter leather and does not cover the dash, steering wheel, roof liner or door panels; unlike the California's. The BMW's wonderful comfort seats were made for long highway (sport sedan) drives while the Cali's seats are made for (convertible sports car) joy rides and to save interior space. They are completely different "animals" and should not be compared to each other unless you choose to ignore car design imperatives.

Here's the last photo I took of my 540is, in its Euro lights, OZ rims and updated E39 grill.
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I'll have to give it a try. My only experience was with prior generations.

 

4thGear - I concur with your description. Mine has the intermittent alpha digits on one panel in the speedo yet the long central display in the center dash is perfect (love the orange-red colors). Didn't know they were correcting them. I have 2 shot window regulators (one stuck up and one stuck down) and I also forgot to mention that the steering pinion sometimes gets stuck (can't turn the wheel) apparently due to a machining flaw in the piston. But you are quite correct in the feel of the car. A top quality luxury performance ride for sure. Also, worth nothing if you consider the cost to repair. Won't be long till its eligible for classic plates though. Love the motor with that 4cam aluminum NA V8. I like the look of the individual dual-wall header pipes too. The paint is thin and needs lots of TLC to keep it new. It was DD for 8 years and then sitting since. Had to chase a couple mice out of it over the winter! -best

 

Why so much handwringing?

People people.

Just look at the market and make your next move.

Sell the car and buy your next whip.

 

Cars can be memory triggers. My favorite car was owned during a really good time in my life. Somehow the two are linked in my mind.

 

This is a great car and the price with extended factory warranty can't be beat.
Your model year was just before the current model and is a real bargain considering what you are getting. I actually prefer your model over the newest model based on the interior finishes. The switch to the ZF transmission got rid of all of the prior transmission problems and of course the engine is manufactured by Ferrari. This car should not be compared to an AMG or M sedan. It could be compared to the larger sedans and in that comparison it is hard to beat. The E series AMG is rough and raw and the M5 not what it used to be in terms of handling. Comparing your car to the standard V-8 E or 5 series is ok I guess but I have driven all of them and would take the Mazer any day. The QP is highly reliable despite some contrary comments and of course your included warranty makes the deal a no brainer. I hope you enjoy it!

 

Personally, if you really want to make it a kid inclusive car, you should consider the least expensive preowned FF you can find already depreciated over the curve, and have fun driving the crap out of it and don't worry about depreciation - the family will thank you for the back seat leg space and it's a lot of fun to drive - Have you driven one before? Just my 2C

 

Andre Levantes are in stock!
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After test driving all three (Porsche, Maserati, Buick) I decided on a 2017 Enclave.

Good Luck with your Search!
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Our friends love their Enclave. What led you to decide on that?
T

 

The Depreciation Crystal Ball

 

Maserati of Arlington has a Hellcat in stock. Might have to get up there dis veekund for a test drive.

Let me know if you want to test drive it for me. I'll give you .03 BTC for your time.
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Maserati of Arlington dropped the Hellcat 3 grand Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Dodge dealer offered me 50k on trade for my 2016 Charger Hellcat with 75k sticker.

This guy selling the 2015 Challenger is in La La Land if thinks he can get 50k for it. Try low to mid 40s now.

 

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Back on topic, in my neck of the woods, the California has plummeted like a rock in terms of value. Same as the FF. Same as pretty much all 2+2s Ferrari has ever made.

I believe the original California has had a tough time, pretty much like the Mondial or the 348 (albeit to a lesser extent) before it. In my humble opinion, the California T is a much better car in terms of built quality and visible/overall quality perception. The build quality between the original California and the 458 was huge, imho. The built quality between a California T and a 458 or a 488 isn't that overwhelming. Seems pretty much on par.

Most people see the huge California depreciation as a problem. I for one think it's great: in a couple of years, the California will be a very affordable, reliable (if properly looked after) Ferrari that can provide wonderful open-top sensations like no other with great value for money. It will be a magnificent entry-level Ferrari and people, I believe, will start to look at the car with a different mindset, giving it more credit. It's the Mondial of the modern times: from ridiculed, criticized and bashed (the original Mondial 8) to praised, affordable, heralded and respected (Mondial 3.2 and T).

That said I believe the California T will always command a premium over the original California and that the Portofino, as a pre-owned car, will command a premium over them both.

I think we should see prices of the California continue to drop over the years, until rock bottom some 5 or 10 years from now. I think we should look at the California for what it is: a very nice, fast, convertible Ferrari than can make the joys of each and every enthusiast/owner. People say negative things about the Califonia not because of what it is, but because of what people wish it would be. When you start looking at the California for what it is, you're going to love it. Great value for money. I would love to own a California as my daily-driver or weekend car, for instance.

The California, like most mainstream and 2+2 Ferraris with some notable and rare milestone exceptions, are never going to be an investment (they may appreciate some 20 years from now when we all drive electric/autonomous cars), but by then what you've spent on maintenance will most likely not make it worth your while as an investment.

Buy it, take proper care of it and drive it. Depreciation is not something you should concern yourself when buying a 2+2 Ferrari V8. The California is meant to be enjoyed. And in that sense, no matter what people say, it's one great Ferrari.

Jut my two cents anyway

Kindest regards to all,

Nuno.

 

Being an auto dealer - I have my own depreciation ideology derived from auction numbers and past sales. Uber luxury cars, exotics, and top-tier trims in most Italian/British/German brands pretty much follow this formula IF driven normal miles (8-10K/yr normal, 2-3K/yr exotic):

Year 1-2 30% depreciation
Year 5 - 60% depreciation
After Year 5 - 10% depreciation per year until rock bottom for that kind of car.

Example 1 - 2015 S550 P2 loaded (My commute car) Sticker 118K in 2015
2017 street value - 70K @ 38K miles

Example 2 - 2010 F Cali - all popular options (led, CF panels, rosso/cuio prem hifi and elec htd seats) 238K msrp
Year 7 - 21K Miles 105K (as seen on ebay)

Example 3 - My 10 F Cali with pretty much EVERY option available (CF all around, LED steering, hifi, 20" diamonds, daytonas front and rear,Magneride, etc etc) MSRP ~268K
Year 7 - 12K Miles 110K - bought last month.

Example 4 - Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa 2002 - 105K MSRP
Year 9 (2011) - 38K Miles 26K at local dealer (my previous car)

So I guess its not a particular car that loses value - in general this depreciation formula works pretty good for me to determine where a car would be in near future.

For comparison - I used to follow Gallardos - The early examples have come down to 80's and 07-08 in 100K range same as early Cali's - but I doubt they will ever fall to 50's.

458's are down to 160-180's at auction. They all follow same depreciation trend.

Now the big question is - where do they go after year 7? So my opinion on that matter is that the low grounds for all exotics is somewhere between 60-80K where market and affordability open to so many customers that exotics remain at that level for a long time until they are considered classic and start gaining some value again.

 

Buy The Dip