Another 12c vs 458 head to head test

Thanks for your post very welcome,i live near ST.EMILLION in the Bordeaux region,not Cannes but sunny ,close to the beach,mountains,Bairritz & Spain.My Jag is great fun top down but that too is my choise,i really am sincere when i say that you have a very special car... i love it even if the wheels wobble & you run people over

 

Those of us who take our cars to the track are happy about this.

 

Well this thread has taken a turn for the better. Andy that is a great mac you got there. Enjoy. Same goes to the mature 458 owners that are discussing this properly. And for the rest who are too busy hating, you guys can duke it out on whos better fezza or macca. Meanwhile can I borrow some money from you guys so I can order me a nice pagani huayra?

 

I see your point Bob,but its not that simple,they havent fobbed the customer off with the brakes to make the car cheaper,firstly they have spent alot of time and money investing in a brake rotor that is new to the market,being iron and aliminium,this rotor is lighter than a carbon one making the unsprung weight better suited to the track driver,and the stopping power is all down to tyres anyway.serious track guys only need the carbon for the heat dispersion.
secondly,Mclaren were handed a golden egg by ferrari,if you think about it the 12c was pitched against the 430 replacement,they were not to know the 458 was two jumps ahead and also quite a big jump in price,i dont think weve seen such a big price difference before between a percieved model line(but is this were the california sits?)
The MAC was pitched between £125K to £175K and they could sit pretty waiting for the 458 price,that i think is the PR gimmick in it being cheaper,not because it dosent have carbon rotors as they had the scope to add them ,but the car is better off handleing wise without them,for this car the only advantage is looks and keeping the wheels clean,pyscology has a lot to do with it with some customer aswell.and if they want to spend the money all the better for the coffers.
Again just my thoughts but i think they have some merit,as Mclaren tend to look at things in a different way to most

 

the iron & aluminum rotor is lighter than a carbon ceramic rotor?

 

The unsprung weight is, as the iron and ali rotor needs a smaller caliper and also less cooling equipment ,ultimatly its the unsprung weight that makes the difference in handling as long as the braking is modulated to suit the tyre the car stops as quick as it does with CCB brakes,its not the size of the rotors that count its the cooling,i think the iron system is 1kg per quarter lighter,which in unsprung terms is quite substantial.this is why mclaren recommed them to its customers unless the car is mostly for track use.I think Jay Leno was surprised also in an interview he did,but not being American i dont know if his opinions count for anything over there,or if he is just another clarkson!

 

yes, i understand the fundamentals & value of unsprung weight

The brakes need to dissipate the kinetic energy of the car as heat. Carbon ceramic rotors can dissipate this heat with much less mass than iron. I'm very surprised that other elements of the brake system can be made light enough ... using iron and/or aluminum rotors ... to make up for this weight difference ??

If this is true, i wonder why McLaren would even offer carbon ceramic brakes as an option?

 

They do make a big point of it,The CCB brakes are only suggested if you want to track the car more than using it on the road,its also fashionable!!
I was also dubious as ive ran a modded 997tt with CCB Brakes and realise its the whole system that counts ,as on spirited runs in the country i could still get a soft pedal,on the same run at quicker speeds(as the 12c is alot more capable on country roads because of the compliant suspension) i have yet to get them too hot.A big part of this is down to the air-brake,which helps equalize the braking to all 4 wheels and so spreads the heat dissiapation to all the rotors.
Bloody hell,im sounding like a salesman,but its just my experience with the turbo ccb,s thats opened my eyes,and they have always been hailed as one of the best