An another Mondial T potential buyer thread

Hello

Yes PV Dirk, if I have to open completely the engine then I know it will last over one year, I am fine with it!

Yes, eurospare (UK supplier - best one in Europe) is offering an aftermarket set of liners. This thing that is worrying me is that if I have one or more "R" piston/liners then this aftermarket set must be of the biggest diameter "G" class and it should not be used with "R" piston...
Pistons are not done anymore, so if one piston is shot I have to change all the 8 with either a used set or with a custom made set.. I would really not like going this route to be honest..



Ok so today first real day of working on the car.

I removed the spark plugs and played with my endoscope. I have done a few pictures (in real it looks better on the tablet screen). However, I can't get enough angle to look at the liners even when it is at BDC.. I will try again tomorrow but not really confident.


I had a look at the spark plugs and they don't look that bad:
-left bank: sign of too much fuel and fuel smell
http://rupp3r.free.fr/mondial/left_plugs.jpg

-right bank: sign of even more fuel and again smell
http://rupp3r.free.fr/mondial/right_plugs.jpg

cylinder numbering:

/\ front
5 1
6 2
7 3
8 4


the one at the right is the one from the lower plug (cylinder 4), first one I took off and I messed around a little bit with it in the plug hole with WD40.. don't think it is oil


Here is a picture from the piston top of cylinder not too dirty (number 3 IIRC):
http://rupp3r.free.fr/mondial/pistontop_endoscope.jpg

And here some quite dirty:
http://rupp3r.free.fr/mondial/dirtypistontop_endoscope.jpg
http://rupp3r.free.fr/mondial/dirtypistontop_endoscope_bis.jpg

I will have a second go tomorrow to see if I can get a better view while focusing on the right bank because I think if there is issue it will be there! In general, right bank pistons are dirtier than at left.

The MAF CO resistance were set to 0.6 at the right and 240 at the left, so the right one should be the richer. However, according to this post (http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/204040-wrong-maf-co-settings-motronic-2-5-mondial-t-cars-can-cause-fires.html) the CO resistance should not be used in normal operation as I understand. But since his car has cat and mine no I don't know if it also applies to catless cars? If yes, this would mean that the big richness on this car comes from dead MAF(s)?


I will try also to have a look by the intake valves, it looks like the plenum can be split into one lower and a top parts, is it correct?

Here a picture of the engine just for fun:

http://rupp3r.free.fr/mondial/engine.jpg

 

Hello

Some news of the Mondial T!

Last week I couldn't resist starting the car after setting the MAF CO to 383 Ohms: it was smoking way less blue and white (it is now quite cold here!) but the idle was really catastrophic, always stalling after only 3/4mn of running!

Today, I did a compression test in order to know if this issue could be coming from poor compressions.

Here are the results (units: bar (psi) ). I did the test cold for obvious reasons!


Front
12.5(180) | 13.5(185)
12.5(175) | 13(185)
12.5(175) | 13.5(190)
12.5(180) (counter test at the end: 13(185)) | 14(200)


Ok so the results looks very good at the left bank. At the right bank the results are all higher and especially the one at the rear (200psi!). My initial thought is that the right bank was the one set at full richness with the CO and was showing the dirtier pistons top. Maybe this is simply some dirt that is raising a little bit the compression ratio.... or can it be some very weird thing with a stuck ring that could lead to higher compression.. doesn't look very logic but never know..?

Sadly my spare battery (640A) connected with starting cable was leading to the famous click and no starting.. I did all the test with the Ferrari battery Could you please tell me if there is any hidden battery terminals somewhere?


It took off the MAF I will test them with a vacuum cleaner..


pictures to follow!

 

Hello

Yeah I know, fluids are three years old. However, I didn't wanted to spew 100/200$ changing fluids if the engine was needing anyway a rebuild.

Up to now this is indeed a good surprise. I plan to solve the idle issue in order to be able to make the engine run and then do a fluid service. I will also check the valve clearances since there is a ticking sound at idle which looks like this.

 

Hello

Just tested the MAFs using a vacuum cleaner. Thanks to this post: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144289000-post19.html

I did a similar set up but a little less sexy!

http://rupp3r.free.fr/mondial/MAF_test.jpg

The MAFs are showing a reading of 1.407/1.95V at idle, 2.83/2.84V at minimum vacuum cleaner flow and 3.45/3.46 at maximum flow. I think they are OK.

Looks like the idle setting may comes from the air by pass setting?

 

Hello

I am considering installing a starter relay in order to try to solve this random start issue.. the fact that the car didn't want to start with the remote battery is also making me think that there is some electrical weakness.

However, this topic (http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/472854-mondial-t-starter-relays-location-question.html) is bringing me doubts since the op is there talking about a starter relay near the coolant tank. I can't see it in the workshop manual (electric wirings and part lists)...

Does the Mondial T have the same starter relay need as the 348 is does the Mondial T has already a starter relay mounted?

Thanks

 

Hello

Update regarding my Mondial T.

I have had a look at the cams and the valve clearance as I wrote in my thread in the 348 area. It is not perfect but nothing really bad so I put everything back (and also did paint the cam cover since I was quite annoyed with all the old paint falling into pieces everywhere!).

I did set the idle screws back at the factory settings (unscrewed of 5 turns) (the previous idle setting was really a joke with 2 turns difference between each banks), put a SAE plug adaptors that was missing on one spark plug together with my previous setting of MAF @383Ohm.
The instant result is that I now have a what I find a quite good running engine, no more stalls, idle is smooth and for what I have quickly seen the blue smoke is gone... as well as all the nasty exhaust smells!

BUT, I was planning to do a leak down test this week end but I have been hold by a friend who was working on Ferraris regarding a strange noise (I think I talked about it a little bit before). The noise is a kind a chattering that is almost only here at idle. It was very hearable when I bought it with the dodgey idle when the rpm was going down to 600rpm or so.
I and some friends were thinking it was maybe something broken or bad attached since not RPM related and also quite erratic/random. However this mechanic told me he was thinking of a start of big end bearings... so obviously now all the plans are hold on since I should not start it again (I was planning to go for a oil service and drive it )..!

Anyway, I would like to get your idea on this noise, or if you think about something else (exhaust stuff, oil pump chain, or don't know what). My oil pressure is fine on idle when cold (5bar) but I haven't still let the engine warm up fully. The oil level was somewhere under the middle between the min and the max after 10mn of idle (engine still not warm).

Videos:
https://youtu.be/pIvqp-U2RMY
https://youtu.be/v4LWa5EPrqc

Thanks

 

Hello

Yes the noise is quite strange. I am checking things and I will keep you in touch... At the end of the day, the major is a little more than 3 years old and anyway I bought this car knowing that it would need some work. The only issue is that I would firstly like to establish the global operation of the car before opening it, in order to not miss something and to not mess with something working fine and that in order to do so I need to make it run a little bit but obviously I should not if it is big end!

 

Hello!

Some news from my side.

For those who haven't seen my topic in the technical lounge, I have done the following things:

-alternator bracket repair
-alternator tensioner pulley+bearing
-right fuel pressure regulator
-NKG spark plugs
-idle/richness tuning
-starter relay
-full alternator renovation (due to a broken pin on the regulator..)

This has allowed to solve all the engine issues! I have done a gearbox+engine oil change and I am enjoying it for a few days, almost 100km done.

It is really a nice driving experience, as I was searching, raw not like all the newer cars.. If I compare to my Alfa 156 GTA which has similar performance, the speed feeling is more important and the engine is really nice pushing! The only drawback I see is that one 6th gear is missing!

I will enjoy it a little bit while I have to do the timing belt on my Alfa and then it will the time for a major.

I am just a little worried about the noise I am hearing from the gear stick, as I noticed when I bought it.. Could someone tell me if it is "normal" or if it is the usual whining from a suffering gearbox?

http://rupp3r.free.fr/mondial/gearboxnoise.mp3 (the kind of background noise)

It looks to be really engine speed dependant, I can hear it very little when the car is parked and idling. When driving it is building between 2/3000rpm and then anyway the exhaust is making too much sound!

I found this video on youtube where there is the same noise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we8xcK5NDco

A little picture but I will have to wash it!
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Hello

My AC belt is removed since I think it isn't working anyway, will have to have a look at it after. I will check it but have the feeling it doesn't go away.

Hope you enjoy your holidays with the roof open in France!

 

Hello

I have the feeling it is linked to engine speed, since I can also hear it when parked in neutral. (some more info here http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/145521401-post61.html ).

Ahah the noise was already there when I test drived it before buying it and making the oil changes! I have indeed check the gearbox and engine dipstick

Before buying it I have read a lot of horror stories regarding loosening input shaft ring nuts and I am thinking at it.. I think the throwout bearing have been replaced 3000 miles ago but the mechanic who did it screwed so many things he may have done it bad!

I just can't resist driving it a little bit since I have spend almost one year sorting various little stuff here and here and I would like to enjoy it a little bit before taking everything out but according to what the noise is I should not do it..!

 

Hello

I was wondering if by removing the clutch I can have a feeling if there is any anormal play in the input shaft, as a first check?
Can I also visually know if the throw out bearing is fine?