An another Mondial T potential buyer thread | Page 3 | FerrariChat

An another Mondial T potential buyer thread

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Rupp3r, Aug 28, 2016.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Page 3 of 4
  1. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,096
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    #51 paulchua, Sep 9, 2016
    Ruppr3

    You really are going about this the right way. I see a very sober and realistic individual with your last analysis.

    Let me sum it up this way - New Engine with Install 15K, with new transmission + 10K = 25K

    +5K in while you are in there.

    if you are willing to cough up to 30K. Go For it!

    That being said, talk it down to at least 20K in my opinion.

    Again, does it not maybe make more sense to just spend low 40Ks on something that is already well maintained and drivable on day 1?

    Don't forget to factor in "time" (time = money)

    Good Luck and keep us posted!!

    Cheers

    :)

    Cheers
     
  2. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    #52 spicedriver, Sep 9, 2016
    My 2cents.

    The 86 3.2 models are the best to own. No power steering, no ABS. You can change the timing belts with the engine still in the car. There was one for sale on ebay recently from a shop, and they laid out some of the reasons why it was the best Mondial to own.

    Ferrari Mondial 3 2 Cabriolet | eBay

    Now the T is a better car. Bigger, more powerful engine, power steering, ABS. More of a true GT. But Ferrari recommends changing the timing belts every three years, and the engine has to come out for that service. Even if you are doing the work yourself, that's still a lot of work. You will need to be either retired, or on vacation. And you will need more space than a 2 car garage, or one with a lift. You can try and let the service go for more than three years, but I can tell you the new belts these days are looking kind of wimpy. You don't want one to break on you.

    Blue smoke - means the rings AND the cylinders are worn. Let it go, and you will eventually be adding more oil than gas. Honing the cylinders, and replacing the piston rings usually fixes the problem.
     
  3. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,096
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    #53 paulchua, Sep 9, 2016
    this is good advice, I agree if you plan to wrench on it yourself...you can't go wrong with the 86 3.2 -- in the right hands - bulletproof.
     
  4. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2004
    1,073
    #54 Russ Gould, Sep 10, 2016
    Unless you are a trained mechanic you are biting off far more than you can chew. Ferrari not the car to learn on. Make a simple mistake and you damage the car even more eg smash the pistons; install a seal incorrectly and there goes another gearbox; or at a minimum you have to do the repair more than once. However you would not be the last person to buy a "bargain" Ferrari only to find that you have to buy it twice. And when you come to sell it the buyer will want to know which famous mechanic did the work. Wait til the middle of the winter, after the stock market crashes, and then buy a nicely sorted car. Believe me, you will still need to work on it.
     
  5. dfranzen

    dfranzen Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,577
    Ponte Vedra Beach , FL
    Full Name:
    Don Franzen
    #55 dfranzen, Sep 10, 2016
    Rupp3r

    Join us for the Stoogefest Oct 15 , you will meet all the guys that actually work on their own cars!

    BTW you definitely want to hang out in the 348/355 thread

    plugzit/ernie/fatbillybob and a few others are excellent sources for you!

    we are at the point that the older cars need love and need willing owners , keep us informed!
     
  6. Rupp3r

    Rupp3r Karting

    Aug 26, 2016
    182
    France
    #56 Rupp3r, Sep 10, 2016
    Hello

    Thanks for all your replies.

    Russ, I am clearly aware that one most not do any mistake on these engines. I am OK with this and I can rely on some engine experts with nice tools in my social network.

    The 30k bill is indeed the most one can do I think, since this is the price of a new engine+gearbox. To be honest I don't want to put so much money since hen the car is not anymore matching number and it is not so good!

    I also know that if there is no bill from a professional mechanic the work will almost not be valued.


    Well, I went this afternoon for the second time to check the car. I did check things I forgot to do and with a clearer vision of the problem. I have followed the Ferrari with my own italian V6 instead of being inside!

    The blue smoke is coming about 15/20s after starting the car. When reving (parked) it a little bit the blue smoke is more important.
    With the wind there was a lot of blue smoke coming to the engine bay and it was not for the asthmatic!
    After following it, I have noticed that there is no correlation between load and the smoke. It is also smoking under more or less and there is not the typical wave of smoke after a coast down usually related to valve steam seals.

    However, the blue smoke is disappearing when the engine is hot but a very biting oil smell is still present.
    Further, he showed me the expertise report he did when he bought it and the expert already noticed the blue smoke when the engine is cold and not when it is hot. He has then drive it with something like 10k like that.

    Further, I don't remember from last week but the engine was now randomly suffering at idle and even stalling. Sometimes the idle was really unstable and then stalling. Hot start was also poor.
    He told me that the throttle butterflies are really a mess to tune and easily mess up the idle. He already did a tuning from a specialist but the issue is still there. I played a little bit with the throttle lever and there is no play in it or so.

    Don't know if this is true or if this is simply because the engine is tired. I don't know if he was WOT when I was following him but my 250hp Alfa was easily pushing it...!

    So for me this is clear that the issue is not with the valve steam seals but from the rings/liner!
    Told him I was thinking about it. He has to sell it and everybody is running away. I am still interested if the price is lowered in order to take into account a dead engine.

    I will then be interested to have some details on Ferrari liners reparation!

    A part from that no cooling/overheating issue.

    dfranzen, I thank you for the invitation but I am from Europe (France)! I am here since I found it is the best Ferrari community.. and I like to practice my english!

    I will have a look a the 348/355 thread as you suggested!

    Thanks everyone for your help. I am still into the business with this one, just want to have at a price that will not make me loose too much money!

    Anyway either he finds a big whale to buy it either he lowers the price. Any mechanic will show him a crazy bill anyway!
     
  7. dfranzen

    dfranzen Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,577
    Ponte Vedra Beach , FL
    Full Name:
    Don Franzen
    #57 dfranzen, Sep 10, 2016
    Rupp3r
    I change my opinion if you are talking euros not dollars!

    What bothers me now is the seller talks about the "butterflies" not able to be repaired by his mechanic and he was so quick to lower the price

    you should pose this question in the 348 thread because I know that that the throttle body can be an expensive part to replace because they were only made for the 3.4

    it sounds like this car has been quite abused

    what was the price difference in the nonsmoking car?
     
  8. Rupp3r

    Rupp3r Karting

    Aug 26, 2016
    182
    France
    #58 Rupp3r, Sep 10, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
    Hello

    I am converting most of the prices in $ for you :)

    The non smoking car I have seen was listed at 60k$ but the owner told me quickly the price can be talked. It was a cab (I dislike cabs!) with only 35k miles. But it was an american import with some strange history so not interested. It had some strange spots on the paint on the rear trunk just behind the coolant tank... like some boiling coolant spew on it...I only checked it in order to compare.

    From what I have seen the price here is something like 40/45k$ for a good example with "high" mileage (50k) and 55/60k$ for one with low mileage.
    As I said, don't really want to spend 40/45k$ for a car that I will still not be confident in for instance the gearbox health..

    I try to think about a right price for this one. Good thing is that the the expert insurance checked there is no accident history.

    Thanks for the advice on the throttle bodies failure. I will have a look on this board to learn about it!

    edit: I have downloaded the workshop manual for the Mondial T but I find almost no information on the engine repair. Is there anything like that that exists with the torque specs, ...?
     
  9. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    #59 PV Dirk, Sep 10, 2016
    To my knowledge there has never been a step by step work shop manual made for these cars. Not enough production to justify. That is why this place is so important. Just last night I asked a technical question and got two good answers. The factory manual is just the details for those who already know what they are doing. I used the steps for engine removal in mine and I use the torque specs all the time. That is about it for me.
     
  10. dfranzen

    dfranzen Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,577
    Ponte Vedra Beach , FL
    Full Name:
    Don Franzen
    #60 dfranzen, Sep 10, 2016
    This page will be your guide,

    My Ferrari 348

    and post over in 348 someone will most likely send you a copy
     
  11. Rupp3r

    Rupp3r Karting

    Aug 26, 2016
    182
    France
    #61 Rupp3r, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    Hello

    Three weeks later I am back posting here since I just bought this Mondial T!

    I had a huge look at internet looking for rings/piston/liners issues on these cars and I found that since the liners and piston are not done anymore by Ferrari this can be a nightmare.. so I offered 16k€ (I am going to talk a lot about figures now so!) for it to the owner and after a few weeks of hesitation he accepted this offer.

    For this price I think the risk is quite limited since the car is in a good general state.

    I got the car back home on a truck in order to avoid driving it anymore and since the driveability is really bad!

    I am gathering all the pictures and I will show it to you soon. The car passed the french MOT with success without any remark (excepted high CO of 3.4% just under the threshold) which is good point.

    Here is the issue list:
    -blue smoke when cold (big question mark here!)
    -start of noise from the gearbox (hoping only the rear bearing is starting to go)
    -poor hot start and idle
    -don't know what is the state of the AC
    -random start issue

    I just started a really easy check and I found that the left MAF resistance is 246ohm (very very rich!!) and the right one is 0.5ohm, so looks like this one is dead. I told you he gave it to an engine tuning specialist (looking for a rofl emoticon).. he must have put the working MAF very rich to make the work "run"...

    I would think that this MAF issue may explain all the bad hot behavior, don't you? Maybe this has also a link with the blue smoke...

    Pictures are coming!

    Next operation is the install a WR1 relay in order to hope this solves the start issue.. and also taking compression and looking with an endoscope into the cylinders to see if there is big damage..
     
  12. dfranzen

    dfranzen Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,577
    Ponte Vedra Beach , FL
    Full Name:
    Don Franzen
    #62 dfranzen, Oct 1, 2016
    Congratulations and welcome to the family.
     
  13. WilyB

    WilyB F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 23, 2007
    4,116
    AZ
    #63 WilyB, Oct 1, 2016
    Je n'aurais qu'un mot: Bravo! :)
     
  14. TGIF

    TGIF Karting

    Mar 7, 2016
    86
    Milpitas, CA
    Full Name:
    Paully
    #64 TGIF, Oct 1, 2016
    Congrats as well.. I'm a 6 month rookie but almost a 1 month out from the shop with a running '88 3.2 Cab -Euro.. I'm sure we'll be sharing notes and maybe even outbidding each other on parts! ;)
     
  15. Rupp3r

    Rupp3r Karting

    Aug 26, 2016
    182
    France
    #65 Rupp3r, Oct 2, 2016
  16. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 22, 2006
    2,232
    Belgium - Europe
    #66 stekkefun4, Oct 2, 2016
    Very nice car! Congratulations and welcome to the Mondial enthusiasts !
     
  17. TGIF

    TGIF Karting

    Mar 7, 2016
    86
    Milpitas, CA
    Full Name:
    Paully
    #67 TGIF, Oct 2, 2016
    Nice, car looks straight and clean. Good find and buy! Enjoy!!
     
  18. Rupp3r

    Rupp3r Karting

    Aug 26, 2016
    182
    France
    #68 Rupp3r, Oct 2, 2016
    Hello

    Thanks :)

    I have a quick curiosity question: the car does not have catalyst. I have read that the first 40 delivered to France were without cat.. this one is from august 1989 so I was wondering if this is standard or not?

    Here is a picture from the ECU panel at the rear boot, I don't see any exhaust ECU but I don't know if it should be there or if it we could see removal signs?

    http://rupp3r.free.fr/mondial/rearecupanel.JPG

    Thanks
     
  19. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,096
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    #69 paulchua, Oct 5, 2016
    Congrats!!!!

    I thought euro cars don't have catalytic convertors? Maybe somebody can correct me or verify.

    Cheers
     
  20. Jeka

    Jeka Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 20, 2010
    1,176
    Rotterdam
    Full Name:
    Johan
    #70 Jeka, Oct 5, 2016
    Congratulations! I agree the rich mixture can be part of the root cause of all problems so it is good to correct that first.
     
  21. TGIF

    TGIF Karting

    Mar 7, 2016
    86
    Milpitas, CA
    Full Name:
    Paully
    #71 TGIF, Oct 5, 2016
  22. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    #72 PV Dirk, Oct 6, 2016
    Good looking car, great price. These are very exciting and rewarding, if time consuming, cars to work on. You have embarked on an amazing journey. Keep us up to date. I look forward to your findings as you dig into the car.
     
  23. Rupp3r

    Rupp3r Karting

    Aug 26, 2016
    182
    France
    #73 Rupp3r, Oct 7, 2016
    Hello

    Yes PV Dirk this is indeed going to be a long and I hope amazing journey!

    I have planned to have a look this week end with an endoscope.. hoping to not see any bad stuff on the liners!

    Will keed you updated with some photos and maybe videos of the inside!
     
  24. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,096
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    #74 paulchua, Oct 7, 2016
    Yes, do not be discouraged, remember these are old, limited production cars...it took me about a year to get everything sorted.

    Once you do - it's magic to your soul.

    Cheers
     
  25. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2004
    1,073
    #75 Russ Gould, Oct 7, 2016
    " looking for rings/piston/liners issues on these cars and I found that since the liners and piston are not done anymore by Ferrari this can be a nightmare"

    I was not aware that pistons and liners are NLA. This puts the kibosh on the "high miles not necessarily bad" school of thought. Unless there is some aftermarket source, there will be a lot of smoky cars for sale in the years to come ... not only Mondials but all 308 series cars.
     
Page 3 of 4

Share This Page