An another Mondial T potential buyer thread

Hello

Thanks
for your reply.

I have indeed read that issues with the flywheel could create some hot start problem. However, from what I have understood this is more due to issue with the flywheel grease packing and in this case the engine is turning but not starting, while having some rattle noise when starting and stopping, isn't it?
I will have a look at it tomorrow, but if as he say nothing happens when turning the key it looks more like an electrical issue.?

May be I haven't quite catch all the things going with theses cars, but to be honest I do not see how I could end up with 10k of parts of repairs -excepted a transmission/engine breakdown-.
Do you have examples of what really pricey can come?

I am going to see it tomorrow and I would inspect it myself very cautiously and see to plan a PPI if I am really interested.

 

Hello

I look after my cars, but I don't like to spew money and don't want to make a 30 years old car looks new!

I apologize, but I have looked at wilmonette' classified and its $34k bills was, I quote "Tubi exhaust, new rotors, brake pads, tires, water pump, plug wires, springs, starter, hoses, rings, seals, wheel bolts, cosmetic engine bay restoration, the cost of the Classiche, and many "while you are in there items""+major service.

I don't know what where the "while you are in there items" but for the rest of the parts I have looked on Superformance/EuroSpareParts and there is nothing that is crazy expensive (brake pads, rotor, plug wires,spring). The water pump is indeed not cheap but the same as on a Mercedes V8.

For the rest of the pars, I don't see anything that could be really expensive but I imagine that the labor was indeed crazy and on a 9k car I am sure it was non stopper!? And for a DIY, these is nothing that is really hard to do.

I have also clearly seen that the belt service can be done with the engine in. If there is only a limited mileage between both services (in my case I don't see how I could more than 10k) I am sure it is fair enough?

 

To be honest I don't know. I have seen a thread here showing how to do it engine in and it seems to be really OK. I understand if you have others things to do then it can be smart to pull out the engine, when as I said when we are talking about swapping belt every 10 000 miles maximum (in my case it would be) I think this can be OK to do a full service with the engine out maybe every 3 belts.. anyway I am not in this situation for now!

I have checked the Mondial T I told you this afternoon.

Well, to be honest I am quite disappointed to see a Ferrari that is advertised as in good state reminds me of some rubbish car I was checking when looking my first car.
I think this would be a very nice restoration price at a low price since this is also something I could be looking at... but not really since this can cost a hell of a lot money. I really don't think it we be sold as is so maybe will see at 25k€ it can be good!

However, I think this is a very good first Ferrari check since I have a lot of questions due to what I have seen since I don't know if it is Ferrari specific behaviour!

Here it is:

bad points:

-told me FSH, but in fact the service manual only written between new a 30 000km but no bills: almost nothing between 30 000km and 73 000km where the owner did as I said the clutch, belt and starter but 3 years ago and not 1 as he told me on the phone and nothing till now! A part from that, one towing bill and work on cooling system and some ignition stuff not that the owner initially tried to hide me I think.. really not comforting!

-tires almost unused but quite old knackered... ok for old school driving but not with a Ferrari..
-all the suspension bushes are really knackered and maybe explain why he says that the handling is rubbish!? (he had a pit in his garage so this is nice)
-lots of small bits in the paint that are hidden by a different shade red!
-he told me he doesn't push in a cold engine but after only 2/3km he was WOT to 4k rpm???

Questions:
-the car has a decat (so this is a good point for me with some pops on lift off!) but is it normal for a Mondial T to smoke blue for a few minutes when cold (on a normal car I would say no!) and to have a have a kind of unstable engine rev when driving cold (1000/2000rpm) (was feeling oil)?
-I did notice a noise coming from the gear stick. A kind of rolling road clearly coming from the gear stick. I don't now if it is nominal on a Mondial T (noise coming from the outside or I don't know, not hearing this on others cars!) or if it is indicating a tired gearbox? No whistling noise heard from the behind the seats or even from outside.
-we did go over a lot of speed bump and I was turning the suspension control between hard and soft but didn't feel any difference over the bumps.. is the ride difference noticeable between soft and hard settings?
-and regarding the hot start issue well..! It is not a hot start issue since it appeared cold just after having run the car one minute. The owner spent 5 minutes to start by moving the car a little bit in gear (was a little bit funny to be honest).

This is making me think that it has something to do with the flywheel and not just a relay thing! I was hearing some clicking from the he was turning the key but nothing else! He has however replaced the flywheel ring gear with the clutch 3 years ago.. can this already be broken!?

I did not check all I wanted since I was really disgusted to see a Ferrari in this condition..

Thanks for reading this long message!

 

I can assure you I love to redline! The reason why I am interested in this car is clearly the engine and the 7800rpm redline compared to a Porsche 964 and its 6500rpm or so!... but I mean he was already pushing when the temps were barely leaving the 60°C mark!

 

Hello

I have just checked an another Mondial T (a cab one). Nice example and no blue smoke at all!

I have called back the owner of the previous owner and we agreed on a buying price of 25k$. I have taken a margin of 15k$ for the smokey engine (valve steam seals at least) and for the noisy gearbox stick.

I plan to tow it home and then to start a full engine/gearbox that will last a few moments, but that will be a dream project! I will just arrange a quick check by some pro in order to check that there is no accident damage.

Any thoughts on this, crazy or not?!

 

Hello

No it isn't a cab this one is a coupe. There is also the start of a gearbox bearing I think. I listened to the audio I made and we clearly hear this noise disappearing when clutching for a shift.

At 25k; I think I have the back up plan of an used gearbox/engine for 15k which can save me if something turns bad.

I there is no broken gearbox gear and cylinders liner I think I will save a little money. If both are gone I will lose some money.

I will see the car again tomorrow and have a look at the blue smoke to see when it is smoking and try to arrange a compression test. Just hoping liners are ok!

To be honest; I am looking at a good project or opportunity since I barely drive and I am not in a hurry to have one another car! As I said I enjoy doing mechanics do this why if at the end it ends up at 25k+15k I will still have had fun!
Further; I have come to the conclusion that no matter the condition of the car I buy; I will not be confident with the gearbox state and will open it for a check..

 

Hello

Thanks all for your replies.

Patlew: yes I realize they are not entry level; I am advised to go for a 3.2 but..!
You said you paid 21k for your gearbox! Was it a brand new one or a spare one? As I said I found ones at 6/7k which looks to be good example?

Regarding the issue list you are giving; the starter is recent; the alternator is nothing in price and when engine out. This one has been decat and I think the exhaust ecu is removed so that is a trouble in less..!

The AC is also in trouble but I have called other Mondial at way higher prices that were also sold with a "don't used AC..".
Regarding the rest; synchro (gearbox failure also) and suspension control the thing is that there is no link with service history. You can spend 50k on a FSH example and you are almost sure of breaking a gearbox before 80k miles.. And I don't what is the percentage of non working dynamic suspension but I suspect it to be quite high since this is a non stopper without any fault indication!

I have seen a lot of cars having a FSH with only normal services but no big work and you still pay for the bills even if does not protect you against major breakdown like on a air cooled Porsche for example. On Ferrari I really think that maintenance is necessary but not sufficient... Which is why I find it maybe better to start from scratch !

After an engine+gearbox rebuils history is not anymore meaningful; excepted for past damage but I am going to check it.

And yes; a few years ago I bought a Corolla like car that was left for 10 years with a big blown head gasket and a lot more and it was fun to repair it.. Now just want to take a step!

From what I have seen; engine wise there is no rocket science at all in a Mondial T engine; nothing really scary; isn't it?

The gearbox is more tricky I admit but I think I have some jokers that could help me and in the end if I can indeed find a good spare gearbox for 6/7k game is not over.

In the end; I am expecting to have between 6 and 20k of parts.
I really don't see how I could really loose more than 10k in the story since even if I want I sell it back for 15k and that's a fail; or end up spending having spent 45k for something that is not worth more than 35k.

So this is the kind of risk I am OK to take. However I am not willing to spend 25k+40k of parts; I don't see how this would be possible but if it is then I would be grateful to be made aware!

Russ; this is not at a this car and the only thing I know about it is that it is rust free!

My spending plan:

Engine:
-3k usual parts (belts; timing bearings; low end bearings; gaskets; rings)
-1/1.5k heads job by a specialist (presure and planar check); valve seats and guides
-if I am not lucky: one or two liners+pistons : 2/3k
-if I am really not lucky; spare engine: 9k

Gearbox:
-bearings and 2nd and 3nd synchros: 1.5/2k?
-if I am not lucky: one or two gears/shafts? 2/4k?
-if I am really not lucky: a spare gearbox: 7k

Various stuff:
-AC: 0.1/1k
-dynamic suspensions : 0/1.5k
-bushes; hoses; a few bits: 0.5/2k

Is this pricing really optimistic? I have looked at various Ferrari parts sellers.


For me it would become tough if low end engine and transmissions gears are damaged..