I need to do this service. So can we just clarify the order details for the Gearbox and Diff kits ? thanks.
My mechanic will service mine next after the Cavallino can't miss that, My car has run lile a train for years great great car but latley the transmission has become very jerky when I let off the gas the down shift is not smooth like it always has. Hope the service is the fix, Always a worry with tme GTA because even on Fchat not the expertise as there is with most other problem"s. Daniel.
I found out my service replaced only two filter because Ferrari did not have the Lower Front filter in the tranny pan available. They cleaned the front filter and said it should not be a problem, the car has less then 18K miles. Being a screen type filter, I believe this should be acceptable until the next tranny service. Next time I will save lots of $$$$ buying the GM kit, # AC Delco Pro TF 305, only $24.65 on Amazon! Thanks Dennis!
Hi Robert, Good you now have a plan. The dealer having replaced the side cover filter, the more difficult to replace, leaves you to do only the pan filters, when required. I keep track of the fluid condition at the annual fluid change, by passing the draining fluid over a rare earth magnet, and through laboratory filter paper, (#10 Whatman), a little slow but effective to determine what contaminants are present in the fluid, and whether additional inspection is required. Good Luck, Dennis.
Just a question, In these day's of wonderful nerd's can the ECU #175832 be repaired, in the future it might be a huge saving. Daniel.
My mechanic got around to doing the service today old oil ws very clean, But the gasket that came with the kit does not fit, Called Ferrari Ft Lauderdale price quoted $340, Daniel sent me one overnight $130. D.
Daniel, Sorry the gasket did not fit. It is really not needed if your bottom plate is as mine is, i.e.,there is a permanent gray rubber gasket attached to the bottom plate, which IMO can be used repeatedly, unless damaged, during removal. Dennis
Craig is still waiting for the gasket to complete my transmission service. Hope it is the right size and shape the first time.
Thanks, Daniel. Good to know. He may have it by now. The weather has been bad, so I've been in no hurry to get my car back.
That was last week and was far more typical. This week it has been incredibly beautiful with record-breaking warm temperatures. Saturday we drove up along the Columbia Gorge to Lost Lake (take a look at some google images) and yesterday it was 82 at Cannon Beach. Sat on the outside deck and had 2 Coronas and a plate of fried clams watching the sun go down. Usually like that in August. On the downside, I really missed taking the Ferrari on those drives.
This is an interesting article re: the Ferrari Ricardo modified "4T80-E" transmission. https://www.theengineer.co.uk/issues/14-january-2000/ferrari-goes-automatic/ Jerry
I know some of these posts are old, but I thought I'd chime in. I am the SC FCA Chapter president - I have two F-cars (one being a 98 456 GTA) and do all my own work. I have just put the transmission back in so here are my observations. I ended up removing it due to a noise. I had pulled the torque tube down last year and put bearings in it but it still made the noise. Turns out the torque converter was coming apart on the inside and I had it rebuilt and rebalanced. Much more about that (and pictures) at a later date. Anyway, as mentioned, the two "scavenger" filters are in the bottom, easily accessible through the pan. The two shift solenoids (also GM parts) are in there too. The rear filter is considered the main filter, and probably the most important, but also the most difficult to get to (typical Ferrari...). The rear bumper must be removed (absolutely a two person job), as well as the oil cooler. Once you have the back cover off, the other two solenoids (TCC and pressure) are easy to change - these are also GM parts. If you Google 4T80E solenoids, any of the big transmission houses have them. Since I was this deep, I changed them. The oil pump is also accessible from here and it appears to have GM internals too. As stated above, the two gaskets have to be Ferrari, not GM, because of the different configuration of the trans by Ricardo for Ferrari. I know there are horror stories and people scared of the GTAs due to the tranny, but it appears as robust as any other to me. I figure if I treat it well, don't abuse it, and do the complete service every time I do a major and belts (every six years for me) it will last. In full disclosure, I am not a professional mechanic and do not turn wrenches for a living, and this info is simply to help with your research and due diligence.
Did the fluid and two bottom filters on my '99 a month or so ago. The procedure is just as Dennis says. One thing however, is that my bottom plate gasket split when I removed the plate so had to order one from Ricambi and also the AC Delco filter kit only had one rubber grommet in it and you need two (one for each filter). That said, the grommet supplied in the kit looks different from the Ferrari part so I ordered two of those at the same time as the pan gasket and was glad I did. Once you've changed the filters and refitted the pan, add 8 quarts of ATF through the filler/dipstick port, fire the car up and run it for a good while in the garage then, as long as the fluid level is at least on the MIN mark on the stick, take it for a drive of five or so miles, return to the garage and, with engine idling, add remainder of fluid incrementally as Dennis said, until it's 3/4 of the way to MAX on the stick. Take it out and drive it again, this time for much longer (15-30 miles) and come back and give one final check of the fluid level. You have to remember that oils expand as they heat up so the fluid level will rise after a good, long run. And always better to underfill a bit than overfill. I leave my fluid level just a hair below MAX after a good, long drive. P.S. Chip, thanks for the post above. Good info and I actually would like to talk to you about the noise you were hearing. Was it a rumbling sound or was it a chirping sound? I have a chirping sound in my '99 which I can't determine the source of. The flywheel doesn't appear to be hitting anything and the noise runs from the front of the torque tube to the rear so it's hard to pinpoint. It's worse when sitting in PARK at idle and goes away (mostly) when the trans is put in gear and a load is applied. Was figuring on dropping the TT this winter to have a closer inspection in there but if I can be armed with more info before I attack it, all the better. Cheers, Aaron
Chip, Aaron- Saved your advice for the next time someone asks this question, which is pretty frequent.
**Sorry about the duplication - it got posted under two profiles**.I know some of these posts are old, but I thought I'd chime in. I am the SC FCA Chapter president - I have two F-cars (one being a 98 456 GTA) and do all my own work. I have just put the transmission back in so here are my observations. I ended up removing it due to a noise. I had pulled the torque tube down last year and put bearings in it but it still made the noise. Turns out the torque converter was coming apart on the inside and I had it rebuilt and rebalanced. Much more about that (and pictures) at a later date. Anyway, as mentioned, the two "scavenger" filters are in the bottom, easily accessible through the pan. The two shift solenoids (also GM parts) are in there too. The rear filter is considered the main filter, and probably the most important, but also the most difficult to get to (typical Ferrari...). The rear bumper must be removed (absolutely a two person job), as well as the oil cooler. Once you have the back cover off, the other two solenoids (TCC and pressure) are easy to change - these are also GM parts. If you Google 4T80E solenoids, any of the big transmission houses have them. Since I was this deep, I changed them. The oil pump is also accessible from here and it appears to have GM internals too. As stated above, the two gaskets have to be Ferrari, not GM, because of the different configuration of the trans by Ricardo for Ferrari. I know there are horror stories and people scared of the GTAs due to the tranny, but it appears as robust as any other to me. I figure if I treat it well, don't abuse it, and do the complete service every time I do a major and belts (every six years for me) it will last. In full disclosure, I am not a professional mechanic and do not turn wrenches for a living, and this info is simply to help with your research and due diligence.
456 GTA Driveline/transmission noise - I know lots of these are old threads and this will be a long post but maybe this info will help others. I have recently posted about working on the torque tube and autobox of my car, so this is a more detailed write up. I have a 98 456 GTA (a very late non-M). It has had a small noise in the driveline since I bought it. The noise is not a grinding but an intermittent "rattle", almost like a loose marble somewhere, then quieter other times, not noticeable to anyone but me. I happens in P, R, D, although it did seem worse sitting still in D with a foot on the brake. Last summer after ruling out exhaust, shields, etc., I decided to pull the TT (torque tube) down after reading about the bearings in it. Both autos and 3-pedal cars have the tubes, although the shafts and bearings are different. I had it up on a lift and moved the transaxle back as far as it would go. It is a job but I got it down. Once the TT was out, the bearings looked OK, although it is hard to tell. I even spun the shaft up to idle RPM but couldn't tell. Anyway, I sourced out SKF bearings, then removed the inner and outer rubber and put them on the new bearings. The OEM bearings are hard to find and $$$$. All went back well so I had high hopes. Got it back in and took it to Chattanooga, and Charleston, SC for FCA events. The noise was still there, but maybe different. As you know by this time you are straining to hear anything! After concluding that the only other two things that turned in park or while not moving were the TC (torque converter) and whatever kind of pump they were using in the trans, I decided to pull it down. I bought a 1 ton engine lift (cherry picker) from Harbor Freight and used the base and cylinder to fashion a transaxle jack. That thing is VERY heavy so you have to have something. I did the same as last summer: remove bumper, oil cooler, half-shafts, wires, shift cable and slid it back. I pulled the TT down to recheck it. You also have to remove most of the exhaust. After some more work I got the transaxle down on my homemade jack. The next big job was getting the TC out. The ring nut is left-hand threaded and has factory red loctite so it was a bear to get off. I ended up having to make a socket with 4 tabs (picture attached), then make a bracket to hold the socket. I heated it some, but more heating may have broken it better. I hoped again to find something obvious like the flex plate being loose or cracked, but it was all perfect. The two "nose" bearings at the front of the housing behind the nut looked OK too, although my heating and beating on the ring nut did them in; I was going to replace them anyway and they were an easy match. I sent the (44lb!!!) TC to Ron (the owner) at Gene Browns transmissions in Houston, TX. I had read about him and seen some of his work. I talked to him on the phone first and was satisfied that he knew what to do. After some anxious days passed he called me. He said the old plate (looks like an old asbestos clutch or lock-up plate) was coming apart and would probably be making a shuttering noise or a rattle. I was never so happy to find out about a problem! He said the technology had improved a lot over the last 20 years and he would put in all seals, springs, bearings, and a new kevlar plate. He also said it was very out-of-balance; could have been Ferrari just using off the shelf GM TC parts, or it may have been dropped in shipping down there - and that he would rebalance it. I approved happily of the repairs (around $500 - a deal I thought after all that). As I waited on it to be returned I decided to dig a little more into this mysterious transmission that scares people. It is indeed very similar to a 4T80E. I replaced the solenoids: the 2 shift ones are in the bottom, and the TCC and pressure solenoids are under the back cover with the main filter (picture attached). All 4 of these are GM/Delco units, as well as the 3 filters - the main one in the back and the two "scavenger" ones in the pan. The fluid pump is also under the rear cover and it appears to be GM also (picture attached). The old unit seems pretty robust. I also replaced the two transaxle mounts that sink over time like the front motor mounts. I put it all back together and the car runs and shifts great. And best of all, all of the noise is gone. So here is my two cents worth: if you have a noise and take it to a shop, I would replace the TT bearings, pull the autotrans down (which they will probably end up doing anyway) and correctly fix it. Put the two bearings in the front of the housing, send the TC to Ron in Texas, and replace the 3 filters and 4 solenoids. Put one quart of Mobile full syn ATF in the TC and about 11 or 12 more in the transmission. For a little extra time and money (while you are in there), you will have covered all the bases, have an updated, balanced TC, and have a fully serviced trans. I am not a professional mechanic and this is not my day job - this is just intended to be info to help. Then to really make it a great car get the cats out, switch out the rear exhaust cans, bypass the immobilizer, send the window mechanisms to F1 in Florida, put in updated 575 motor mounts, put in a 34R redtop on a tender, etc........
I have to say these are some of the most interesting posts in a long time. Real good information for the long term.
Hi Olin, may I know the location of the small drain plug? I have hard time finding it. I see the one at the bottom of the diff but trace around the flat oil pan on the bottom of the tranny I couldn't find any plug. More description or a picture or a mark on the WSM diagram will help. Thanks.
This is very helpful as I have the dreadfully loud rattle and vibration from the transmission (TT/gearbox) of my GTA. Apologies for the long post, hopefully Chip will see this and be kind enough to respond So I took the plunge last weekend and removed the TT and then the shaft and bearings from the tube. The bearings actually look ok, so no smoking gun, but I did find a couple of things that don't seem correct. When I separated the TT from the gearbox, the shaft was tight on the G/B spline (because of the clamp ring on that end only) and dragged the shaft out of the tube slightly. At least because of this I was able to reach the clamp bolt(s) and loosen one of them enough to release the shaft from the spline. Once on the floor and apart, I checked the 4, large drainpipe diameter spacers. The two middle ones measure 355 mm each, but the front (engine) and rear ones are of individual lengths. As fitted by the previous guy (I could tell that my TT had been removed before), the front spacer was 382 mm and the rear 378 mm. I'm suspicious that actually they were fitted in the wrong positions and the 378 mm should be at the engine end. From parts diagram for the GTA, the engine side spacer is part number 162448 The GB side spacer is pt number 169800 It would be good to confirm the lengths of these part numbers, to be sure when I refit them. (note the GTA TT and shaft are different from the manual version that's in the workshop manual). Also I found the front spacer glued in place by previous mechanic, but the rear spacer free and "loose". I wonder if that contributes to the noise? I then offered up the drive shaft on its own to the gearbox splined male. At first it wouldn't go on until i released the clamp ring some more, then it wiggle on to a tight fit with no play up and down. Removed it and offered up the engine end to the spline spigot (no clamp this end) and it slipped on fully. Wiggled the shaft up and down and there is movement, ie the outside diameter of the engine spigot and the inside diameter of the propshaft are not a tight fit?? Could this be a source of vibration? Also the parts diagram shows a shim at each end of the propshaft, but mine only had one fitted at thigh end and not at the engine end. Other observations - I turned the gearbox by hand via the gearbox drive spigot, I'm not sure how the auto gb works, but I think that housing at the front is the torque converter? As i turned it there is a "sloshing" sound - I presume that's fluid in the TC, but I guess I was expecting it to be reasonably full and not slosh like it was half full, although I did drain 6 litres from the rear sump pan to remove the bottom plate. In ChipM's post he talks about refilling his rebuilt TC with a quart of fluid but I can't see how you refill the TC as there is no filler. I assume the TC is filled via the rear air filler cap and its pumped forward to the TC? Again Chip talks about a "flex plate" - what is that and where exactly is it? Re GB service, I have the 2 filters and a new gasket, but hesitated with the rear main filter as the gasket wasn't in stock. Seems I should make the effort locate one having gone this far. Thinking ahead to refitting the Torque Tube, I'm having problems seeing how the clamp is supposed to be tighten...it seems an impossibility to tighten it once the shaft is fully home as it would be completed covered by the TT outer housing. Do you set the tightness to "interference fit" on the bench, rather than clamp it down tight once its on (as I say by then it would be inside the TT housing and inaccessible) Summary actions outstanding: Figure out spacer length/positions figure out how the gb eng clamp works when refitting Decide if I pull the TC or not Ideally find a schematic diagram of the TT for an automatic similar to then that's in the workshop manual (manual trans only) so I can check reassembly. Any help on the specifics appreciated
Hello, been a long time. I will post this in the two threads, 456GTA Transmission and 456 Auto Tranny. I (Chip) posted a lot in 2017 on all my 456 issues. I haven't since then but recently a few folks have reached out to me for updates. This is not my day job and nothing to gain, but I love working on cars and sharing info that may help. I am still the South Carolina (US) Chapter President for the Ferrari Club so I still talk to people all over the place about 456s. Anyway - If you go back you will see I replaced the bearings twice and had the TT down 3 times trying to find this rattle. I then ended up having the TC rebuilt. It did help the noise and rattle but did NOT stop it all. It may help others but a word of caution before you dig into this very difficult task of removal and rebuilding the torque converter that it may make you feel good long term to have a new one (with updated internals, etc) but it did not remove all of the rattles. Since those posts I have pulled the TT down once again. The bearings look good and only have 2000 miles on them. I have worked on cars and built engines all my life from Ford flat heads up to this 456 and a 348 but to me (as an old farm boy) bearings don't rattle much unless there are big issues. I took the rubber off the originals, matched up the bearings using measurements and epoxied the rubber back on. All that still looks good. Again, do all this with your own due diligence but this info may help you make decisions. I have now had the chance to spend time around 3 other auto GTAs (2 M's and one other GTA) and they ALL make the exact same noises. I have pretty much resigned myself to just live with it unless I am missing something easy. I had a really interesting conversation about a year ago though that I thought I would share. I ended up talking to a Ferrari old-timer that had detailed knowledge of working on 456s when new. He told me that they were supposed to be "balanced" before left left the factory but it was seldom done or done correctly. This would just be on the autos since the manuals would not have the shafts turning in neutral or with the clutch depressed. He said there were plugs that were supposed to go into small holes in the flywheel of the autos, and the manual flywheels do not have the holes. If you look on the diagrams you will see them and a part number for them. The diagrams are unfortunately harder to find but EuroSpares still has them up. I took the small inspection cover (with the holes in it) off the bottom of mine and I see these holes. There are no plugs in there. I have no idea if there ever was, or they were rubber and rotted up, etc. I would love to see one of the plugs but then I would have not idea if every hole had one or if they were truly balanced somehow when new. Very interesting though. I don't have any intention of doing any more TT removal unless the noise gets a lot worse or a bearing is truly having issues. I have someone wanting to buy my car so I am thinking about selling it and getting a 612 or FF. My last project, hopefully, I will finish before that is putting in one of the SRI/Helms fuse boxes and new connectors. My car will require the right buyer since the cats are gone and the airbags long since gone too. Hope all this helps someone weigh out expensive decisions.
