456GTA Transmission Service | FerrariChat

456GTA Transmission Service

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by ohbeaver, Jul 24, 2014.

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  1. ohbeaver

    ohbeaver Rookie

    Apr 8, 2011
    36
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Full Name:
    Olin Beaver
    Recently became the proud owner of a 2001 456 GTA with 26K miles. I am having some difficulty gathering data on the routine servicing of the auto transmission. Specifically, I'm trying to determine the following:

    1. The owners manual states that the oil (at running temp) is to be drained through the two drain plugs with the engine running at idle for several minutes. Never heard of a procedure like this and am wondering if I am understanding the procedure correctly?
    2. Are there filters, gaskets,and seals which also get changed during routine servicing? Unless I am missing something, the OM is silent on anything other than oil change.
    3. Anyone know of a video or clip that shows someone doing the service?

    I appreciate any help,

    Olin
     
  2. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
    12,600
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Allan
    Filter screens are it as far as I know. Change the fluid every 2 years or 15000 miles, whichever comes first.
     
  3. ohbeaver

    ohbeaver Rookie

    Apr 8, 2011
    36
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Full Name:
    Olin Beaver
    Allan,
    Thanks for the response. Any thoughts on item 1? According to the owners manual, you drain the oil with the engine running and the transmission in Park. Can't understand why you would do this as it seems the converter would go dry not to mention the entire transmission. Do you run the engine during the draining process?
     
  4. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
    12,600
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Allan
    At my age, I'm strictly an armchair mechanic. Craig Nelson (Monza456) owner of The Jag Shop is my go-to guy in Portland. Rifledriver will probably be able to provide detail as well.
     
  5. chris_columbia

    chris_columbia Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2008
    814
    Columbia MD
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Olin, or anyone else: Did you get the answers to your questions. I also would like to change the auto trans oil and filters. It looks like a standard General Motors kit is like $30 and includes 2 screens(filters) and one pan seal. The kit says it is compatible with the 456. Any reason to believe otherwise?

    I assume the oil is filled through the panel in the trunk? How much oil? What type?
     
  6. Playframe King

    Playframe King Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2010
    320
    UK
    If the GM kit proves to fit/work - please post part numbers and source(s) - thanks
     
  7. dencap

    dencap Karting

    Sep 29, 2013
    127
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Dennis Caponigro
    Hi Olin,
    Happy New Year.
    Just did my autobox service.
    Engine warm. Drain fluid from the bottom pan drain. Small plug.
    There are 2 filters accessible from below. when the pan plate is removed. Several bolts and a cross member removed, for removal of the plate.
    Auto box, a modified GM 4T80E hydromatic, uses regular GM filters. ebay has for around $15. Remove filters...just pull down. There is a grommet on each filter connection tube. Make sure you replace before putting new filters in place. Easy push/pull removal and replacement. Replacement filters come with the grommets. Refill with DEXRON 3 or 6, approx. 3 gals to start. Total capacity approx 3.3 gals. I do this yearly, or every 15K miles. Transaxle, I check level but have not replaced fluid. Will do next service, at approx. 50K miles. Fairly easy procedure.

    Good luck,
    Dennis
    Fairly easy procedure.
     
  8. chris_columbia

    chris_columbia Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2008
    814
    Columbia MD
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Dennis, could you tell me is the level dip stick and fill point located under the big panel in the trunk?

    How are you filling? Put 3 gallons with engine off, than run for a few minutes and add more with engine running until at correct level?

    Thanks,
    Chris
     
  9. dencap

    dencap Karting

    Sep 29, 2013
    127
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Dennis Caponigro
    Hi Chris,
    Yes the dipstick/fill point is under the cover. There are, I think, 12 bolts to be removed, and under the cover you will see on the left of the tranny, the dipstick, which just snaps on/off.
    Fill with at least 2 gals of fluid and, warm the engine, check level. Put remainder in incrementally after checking.
    Dennis

    Dennis
     
  10. ohbeaver

    ohbeaver Rookie

    Apr 8, 2011
    36
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Full Name:
    Olin Beaver
    Dennis,
    Thanks for the info and your experience. Very helpful.
    I assume you did not have to remove the back bumper? There is a third filter behind the large vertical pan. I can't determine if the 4T80E has a corresponding filter but to get to this one, I understand the rear bumper has to come off. Any thoughts?

    Also, I take it the 4T80E pan gasket worked?

    Really appreciate your help,
    All the best for the new year,
    Olin
     
  11. dencap

    dencap Karting

    Sep 29, 2013
    127
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Dennis Caponigro
    Hi Olin,
    The filter under the side cover has not been replaced, just the ones accessible from below.

    When the fluid is drained, it is passed over a very strong rare earth magnet, filtered, and has been clean, with no debris each time. If there is contamination I would then consider removing the side cover filter (not an easy job), so to date pretty clean fluid.

    Additionally, there is a magnet on the engine side of the bottom plate, that at each fluid change, is checked and cleaned. So far not much debris at all.
    The bottom plate has an installed and permanently attached gasket, which I have cleaned and reused and has never leaked, nor become damaged when the bottom plate is removed. One caution, do not use a screwdriver or other sharp metal tool to pry the bottom plate off, when the bolts are removed. You could damage the gasket.

    Hope this helps.
    Dennis
     
  12. chris_columbia

    chris_columbia Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2008
    814
    Columbia MD
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Thanks for the help Dennis. Do you have a part# for the side filter you can share?
     
  13. dencap

    dencap Karting

    Sep 29, 2013
    127
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Dennis Caponigro
    Chris,

    The part number is 72710AFT. Approx. $15.00 0n ebay.

    Dennis
     
  14. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    #14 166&456, Jan 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
    I believe yearly is overservicing, I see no reason to change it that frequent.
    Same with brake fluid, where every two-three years is certainly often enough, especially if the car is properly garaged.
    Next time, instead of changing it, have an oil analysis done. It's quite a bit faster and easier than an oil change and it could save you quite a lot of time and money in the long run. It will also tell you things about your transmission such as metal particles etc. This is of course only useful after some mileage has been accrued on the oil.
     
  15. papou

    papou Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 18, 2012
    1,567
    plantation Fla
    Full Name:
    daniel ross
    When they talk about replacing the "screens" are they referring to the part above,
    As you can tell I am confused.
    D.
     
  16. chris_columbia

    chris_columbia Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2008
    814
    Columbia MD
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Daniel, as I understand there are 2 "screens" or filters that can be done fairly easily from under the car. The 3rd requires the rear bumper to be removed. 72710AFT is the one that requires the bumper to be removed.
     
  17. Amalfi Dream

    Amalfi Dream Karting

    Oct 24, 2014
    94
    Santa Ynez, CA
    Full Name:
    Robert Wait
    Just had my 2001 456M GTA serviced including the transmission service. I was surprised there are three filters, I thought there is only two. My service only included two, the rear filter (#178164) and the lower central filter (#178162). They did not replace the lower front filter (#178159). Always something. Is this going to be a problem?
     
  18. papou

    papou Formula 3
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    May 18, 2012
    1,567
    plantation Fla
    Full Name:
    daniel ross
    Thanks, to try and avoid the "Ferrari tax" any GM part number's for the lower
    screen"s,
    D.
     
  19. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,985
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    166 and 456. That is bad advice on the brake fluid. If owners go by the book (which says annually on brake fluid), except for those items missed in the book, like coolant and F1 fluid for 575s, they can sleep better knowing their Ferrari was maintained as recommended by Ferrari.

    Changing oil in the transmission more frequently than necessary will not cause any problems, especially since the owners are doing it themselves. Some of our pros recommend changing all fluids annually. Ignoring automatic transmission service on something as specialized as a 456/456M transmission is not recommended.

    I believe you have given bad advice before on changing transaxle fluid. Telling owners to do less than what Ferrari recommends is not helpful unless you have some specialized knowledge on the subject. Do whatever you want to your Ferrari, but not a good idea to try and get other owners to do the same things.
     
  20. dencap

    dencap Karting

    Sep 29, 2013
    127
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Dennis Caponigro
    Daniel,

    The part description is Auto Trans Filter Kit AC DELCO PRO TF305. The price was around
    $25.00, including the gasket. Best price was from ebay, although O'Reilleys and Autozone has as well. They use screens and filters interchangeably, but they are filters.

    Dennis
     
  21. papou

    papou Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 18, 2012
    1,567
    plantation Fla
    Full Name:
    daniel ross
    Thank's Dennis, As always F chat comes up with great info, A great thread and long
    needed.
    Daniel.
     
  22. dencap

    dencap Karting

    Sep 29, 2013
    127
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Dennis Caponigro
    Robert,

    I would check to see what filters were really replaced.

    It seems strange they would open the tranny pan and remove only the bottom front filter and leave the bottom rear filter, when they sit practically side by side, and remove all of the preliminary stuff to get to the side cover filter.

    Just my thoughts.

    Dennis
     
  23. ohbeaver

    ohbeaver Rookie

    Apr 8, 2011
    36
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Full Name:
    Olin Beaver
    Dennis,
    Thanks again for sharing your experience. Have a general question regarding the drain procedure.
    According to the owners manual (page D4), to drain the transmission, "Put the transmission lever in position P and drain the oil completely by loosening the drain plugs B on the transmission housing, letting the engine idle for a few minutes." There is no mention of removing the pan but you can't replace the filters without doing so. There is also no mention of whether you drain it cold or up to temp.

    Question? Do you follow this procedure and run the engine with the pan in place and then drop the pan after the transmission has emptied?
    Thanks again for your help.
    Olin
     
  24. dencap

    dencap Karting

    Sep 29, 2013
    127
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Dennis Caponigro
    Hi Olin,
    Yes, I do empty the tranny with the fluid warm after a 30 minute drive. After the fluid flow has receded to a drivel, I start the car and in P, and let it idle for 2 minutes. This removes more fluid, that without starting the car, would have remained in the tranny.
    AFTER THE TRANNY HAS COOLED remove the pan to access the filters.

    Hope this helps ,
    Dennis
     
  25. papou

    papou Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 18, 2012
    1,567
    plantation Fla
    Full Name:
    daniel ross
    Filter kit arrived today $29 inc shipping, Dexron 6, $24 a gallon Amazon free shipping.
    Great info thanks.
    Daniel.
     

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