Thanks! SKY Sport bias alert! Both Anthony Davidson and Johnny Herbert would have easily understood and should have told the truth as they were both racing drivers at one time. FAKE NEWS! Stroll neglected to apply progressive lock as he entered the corner without slowing. If you watch the curb to Stroll's left, you will see the collision occurred just after the beginning of the paint markers which indicate to drivers that they are approaching the apex... and need to hug that curb to maintain a racing line. Well, young Stroll didn't do that. He just let his car drift into the middle of the track. His car actually moved to the right even though his steering wheel didn't move. What didn't help matters was Vettel taking the corner faster than he needed to, even though he was taking the correct line around Stroll. IMO, it was 80% Stroll's fault and 20% Vettel's. If you don't apply progressive lock as you enter a corner while maintaining (or increasing) forward speed, your car will peel away from the corner because you need to match the increasing arc of the corner and resist centrifugal forces to follow the corner. It's pure physics. That's what happened to Stroll.
This would apply IF they were racing..they were NOT racing....Stroll has no need whatsoever to follow a RACING line.His car was turning on a wider ark drifting towards the center/outside of the track (probably to pick up rubber ) Vettel just misjudged things ,yet again,in his classic impatient style ... wondering what is the next dumb stunt he will pull ..and blame whoever happens to be in his way ..as if he owns the track!
Erm... ahem, it's called "holding your line", basic safety practice when you're sharing the road. Try drifting off to the outside without looking in a traffic circle next time and see what happens. And if you watch the view from Vettel's car as he passes Stroll, he isn't actually going that much faster than Stroll. It's more like Stroll's car slowed when he made contact with Vettel.
Give it a break....Stroll did not need to follow "racing line", he needed to follow any line that makes sense...and he did not
Like it or not, if you watch Strolls on board footage irrespective of the news feed, he is constantly turning left, maybe not as aggressively as you'd like, but why should he, it wasn't under racing conditions. The guy overtaking is the risk taker, if you are ever behind a car and you hit it, 9 times out of 10 it's your fault.
Okay...let me ask you back: would you say that as well if Stroll crashed into Lewis? I doubt because this is a very thin argumentation..."constantly turning left" because of the inboard although the following car shows he is NOT taking the corner...
Honestly initially given only the footage from Grosjean's car, yes I would have portioned more blame firmly at Stroll's doorstep, for apparently turning into, be that Hamilton or whoever, it makes no odds, as I said earlier Grosjean's car video footage exaggerates and causes an illusion that Stroll drifts more to the right, because he moves sharply to the left, most likely to avoid contact from either of them. But Stroll's on board footage convinced me otherwise, it was an unfortunate incident, and impatience from Vettel maybe, who knows what he was thinking. And I'd say the same if it had been Hamilton in Vettels shoes that day.
As you so let slip, 1 time out of 10, Stroll whom I actually like, hit the jackpot or in this case, Vettel. Your comments make me wonder if you just want to express your dislike for Vettel even if people would wonder if you understand the physics of cornering safely. Hopefully young Stroll will pay more attention in the future as he would seem to show promise otherwise.
Likewise, and one would hope a older and wiser Vettel will proceed with more caution in future, and I do not dislike him. If I wanted a lecture on Physics, Id ask the missus thanks.
Actually, I would argue that we do not want an older Vettel - we want a faster one. F1 is about racing and winning. In addition, I don't think wisdom should involve expecting Stroll to wander off his line without first checking his mirror. Look at it this way if you and I were on a public road, turning left around a corner in our separate lanes and I drifted right without first looking, crashing into your car as you pulled alongside while staying in your lane, would you not justifiably blame me for the accident?
True, but who is on the outside(Vettel) and behind Stroll and who is on the inside(Stroll) in front of Vettel. Traffic: Here in the states we have 2 car right-handed turning lanes or 2 car left-handed turning lanes.. The person on the inside of the either turning lane MOSTLY holds their line and stays inside...but at times does not and goes into your outside turning lane....cutting you off or smashing into you. It is up to the person on the outside turning lane(right or left) who is behind the guy on the inside due to the arc/turning radius to be constantly looking at the person inside and have his front just behind his rear bumper IN CASE that person turns into your turning lane/line.
I hear you but to be fair, you cannot use that analogy as there are no lanes on a racing track to drift out off, apart from pit exits ect. However personally I always tend to drive trying to 2nd guess what other drivers may do around me, it comes with age I just cannot fathom the reasoning on what Vettel hoped to gain from overtaking and cutting into the corner like that, bizarre to me, I'd have thought staying to the right of the track and picking up rubber would have been a better option...but what do I know.
True, I don't even trust folk when using indicators, I tend to wait till I see their wheels turn before pulling out on them.
So, the "a Ferrari driver can do no wrong" mentality is very much in favour here, it seems. David Coulthard says it all when he questions why a driver needs to overtake on a slow-down lap after a race.
Peter, I don't follow your argument. Firstly it is a cool down lap where drivers do pretty funny things such as leaving the track, waving to crowds, entering the track again etc. Doing the fastest or most rational thing isn't necessarily what applies. Secondly, what most drivers tend to do is pick up marbles and spend not too much time on any particular line for that reason. Stroll didn't do anything bizarre and he didn't do anything erratic. The problem was rather that Seb seemed to have gone in with the assumption that Stroll would hold an extremely tight line. You are building a bit of a toil argument here, where you define what is a line that you permit to make sense. It's a cool-down lap. You see all those things that don't make sense. You sometimes see people on track. You sometimes see people giving other drivers a lift. Heck, that Wehrlein car must have been driving in a way that made no sense with that passenger on board...
Based on your comments, I sense you've not had any track or race training / instructions before. You cannot apply your personal rules of thumb learnt from driving on public roads, to driving alongside professional F1 drivers. You may say your 2nd guessing is safer but that's not how racers drive. They rely on their fellow racers recognizing and adhering to basic accepted practices to achieve some level of safety when interacting on the race course, whether it's during the race or just lapping the course. One of these practices is recognizing which lines are safe to pick from along the race course. When maneuvering on race courses where there are no set lanes to follow, it is all about the lines the racers select along the course. When you take your first drive on a race course you will be told to follow your instructor's car and to follow the line he takes. Only after taking many laps, instructions and beginner races will you learn to see for yourself the various lines that can be safely taken on a given course. It also isn't safe to allow rookies to race with seasoned racers because rookies can be unpredictable whereas seasoned drivers know and recognize each other's knowledge and level of skill. Stroll is supposed to be a seasoned racer. I think this is where rookie Stroll needs to work on his game. Stroll's car changed racing lines from the inside to the outside and then back to the inside of the approaching corner before the accident whereas Vettel's car was moving along a single line, from the outside to the inside of the corner. This would have been OK if Stroll had then either stayed in his final chosen line or looked in his mirror before deciding to drift back out of the corner. He caused the accident because he was "dozing", not paying attention. Vettel's line paralleled Stroll's just before he got alongside Stroll and unfortunately, Stroll did not see him and drifted back out just as Vettel moved alongside. Vettel's slightly higher speed made the accident more difficult to avoid but he wasn't going very fast either. Vettel could also have left Stroll more room but cars pass each at those distances all the time so having more room for error wasn't something that Stroll should rely on.
And would David also say it's OK to not check your mirrors before changing your line and just drive in wherever direction you feel like?
So you now agree you used the wrong analogy. Otherwise it's safe to assume, you would pull the same stunt Vettel did, and this is where we agree to disagree. You're also referring to instructors talking about following racing lines, however the race had finished, they tend to pick up rubber not on racing lines. If you want to give advice on racing, may I suggest as one of those practises is to take care when overtaking cars on a cool down lap, they don't tend to and don't have to adhere to racing lines, as they are not racing at that point.
But whatever line you drive...when you are slowing down and change your line you still have to watch what is going on around you...or do you think a guy doing a donut does not look in the mirror before because he thinks the others wil see him anyway??? Or keeping your example with Wehrlein: do you think he simply stopped in the middle of the track without looking in the mirror before whether there is somebody behind him? I think not...Lance did not look at all what was going on or as somebody said "he only minded his own thing". We might have different opinions but I think if it was not Vettel the reactions would have been different because it seems common at the moment to blame him over the top...maybe also for todays engine failure
What are you talking about? Stroll drifted into Vettel's car because he came off his line without checking his mirror. And as far as I know, drivers still have to check their mirrors on their cool down lap. Maybe you're trying to avoid having explain that glaring mistake by Stroll. Yes, I know Williams is British. I like them to do well too but a mistake is a mistake. You always have to check before you move over.
You're clutching at straws now, I'am not trying to avoid explaining, I have already explained why I came to conclusion I did numerous times, it's quite obvious to me if you think Vettel did no wrong in this incident, there is no point in discussing this matter any further.
Exactly. Our actions have consequences, and stroll needed to be awake and watching where he was going. Vettel rightly expected stroll to know he was behind and overtaking him, and to turn into the corner. The fact stroll didn't do it is his guilt. End of case. No physics lessons required
The guy that slows down in race conditions on the racing line in spa, causing a massive accident with the leader of the race while he was being lapped you mean? Yeah, very credible
Actually, all instructors point out that whenever you are not at racing speed, you always always check your position and ENSURE you do not make any moves that are unpredictable, such as drifting around aimlessly, braking suddenly in the wrong places, etc, they don't recommend getting mixed up with faster traffic, and vettel has every right to decide his own pace at all times, even on the cool down laps, except when he is in the pit lane or under safety car conditions. Blaming him for strolls lacklustre racecraft is ********
Sorry but I can't take anything you say with any credibility at all, you are so bias it renders it a futile exercise in deserving any response.
