1981 308 gtb | FerrariChat

1981 308 gtb

Discussion in '308/328' started by Claudia k, Oct 14, 2017.

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  1. Claudia k

    Claudia k Rookie

    Oct 14, 2017
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    Claudia khalil
    Hi everyone,
    I just inherited my fathers 1981 308 gtb. ( not ever selling it, it’s the last thing I have from my dad, so please leave the selling it option out of this thread) He feel ill and the car had sat for roughly 20 years, it would be occasionally ran but not much. There is a lot of work to be done on it, I will be attempting to do most of the work on my own as I can’t afford to fully take it in to a shop, as well as I love working on cars. I know this one is extremely different from cars I’ve worked on. There for I’m reading up on exactly how this car works. I’m informed by my uncle that the major problem is it over heats? Any suggestions? Also.... the key has somehow gotten misplaced and I need to get it started. I’ve contacted damn near ever key maker in town and I’ve run into a dead end. Any suggestions that won’t cost me an arm and leg.

    Thank you in advance.
    Claudia k


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  2. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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    #2 wildcat326, Oct 15, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
    There are sellers on eBay who sell replica key blanks cheaply.

    Some points on overheating:

    - No matter what anyone here tells you otherwise, these cars don't like sitting for long hauls in gridlock. They don't develop torque until they hit about 3,500 revs in any given gear, and if you're cruising between 3,500 and 5,000 revs, you're making a lot of engine heat. Once your oil gets good and hot, only air blowing over the oil radiator at the end of the driver door intake keeps heat in check.

    - With a radiator in the front, motor in the back, and long coolant tubes running between the two, the car holds about double the coolant of a "regular car," approx 5 gallons. There are a lot of bends and pockets where air can get trapped, and air trapped in the pressurized system can heat things up quickly. Proper bleeding is important.

    - Once it's warmed up (water and OIL register temps around the halfway point in the gauge), go upfront and see if the radiator fans are kicking in as they should. 40 year old electrical fans crap out. If they do, car will run just fine when you're cruising 100mph, and will overheat in pretty short order when you pull off the freeway.

    - On the subject of warming up, 308s run better - SIGNIFICANTLY - when properly warmed up. Let it idle until you start to register heat on the water temp gauge, then drive with kid gloves until the oil hits the 210 mark, after which you can drive from coast to coast flat out without it batting an eye. But be advised that it's normal for the car to shift notchy into 2nd or engage sluggishly when the oil is cold. There's a long technical explanation if you're interested, but take my word.

    One of f-chat's members created a web site called birdman308.com, where there are illustrated step-by-step tutorials for most of the critical stuff. Start there. Read through each procedure multiple times; may seem complicated at first, but will make much more sense once you start actually wrenching on the car.

    Lastly, I would definitely spend $500-700 to have a good, reputable Ferrari specialist do what we call a PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection) even though you already own it, because that will give you a baseline of what's critically in need of addressing and what can wait.

    Welcome to f-chat!
     
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  3. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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  4. Claudia k

    Claudia k Rookie

    Oct 14, 2017
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    Claudia khalil
    You are amazing!!! I can’t thank you enough! This is thorough! I will be looking into all of this and slowly get this beauty up to tip top condition! Plus side is she runs!


    -Claudia k
     
  5. Claudia k

    Claudia k Rookie

    Oct 14, 2017
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    Claudia khalil
    I also purchased blank key sets, but with out the key code- I can’t seem to find anyone to cut the key for the ignition. Someone had mentioned that I could generate a key code from my vin number but it seems I’ve run into a dead end with that suggestion.


    -Claudia k
     
  6. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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    Before you do anything:

    - Drain and change all fluids. Oils and especially coolant break down over time and can do more damage than good at that point. There are many threads debating what brand and weight of oil to use. Personally I like Brad Penn green motor oil because it has a ton of additives that protect engines of these types. Most here prefer Royal Purple or Redline gear oil. Most top tech guys I know prefer Zerex G-O5 (2 gallons of coolant and 3 gallons distilled water) for 308s. Brake fluid, for sure, too!

    The "sorting" process is never-ending, but do things gradually as time and money permit, and, if a critical problem arises before you've gone through the whole thing, stop driving it. So many folks keep driving hoping that a problem corrects itself, and that's usually the beginning of a story about how a total rebuild became necessary. These cars aren't unreliable, but are expensive and tricky to work on, so oftentimes owners let service fall by the wayside, and today they're in rickety shape as vintage exotics.

    At a minimum, look into new tires and new fuel lines, including the fuel filler neck and gas tank crossover hoses. Scuderia Rampante Inc (SRI) sells superior silicone upgraded hoses, but they're pricey. Ferrari Service of New Bedford sells complete hose kits for the remainder of the system. These fuel lines corrode from the inside out, and you wouldn't know there's a problem, but all the YouTube videos of 308s burning at gas stations are because hoses failed or burst over a hot engine.
     
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  7. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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    Your car is too vintage for a "code." Either Google a specialist automotive locksmith, or find the thread here for how to pull the ignition and door lock tumblers. I've never done those and don't want to give wrong guidance.
     
  8. Claudia k

    Claudia k Rookie

    Oct 14, 2017
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    Claudia khalil
    Sounds good! I am currently in the process of replacing all fluids. I was also informed to clean out all the fuel and replace with 100 octane fuel for the first time to run it through and clean all the “guck” in there. Am I misinformed on this?


    -Claudia k
     
  9. Claudia k

    Claudia k Rookie

    Oct 14, 2017
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    Claudia khalil
    I’m on the hunt for a locksmith to help me out. If that doesn’t work, I’m looking into changing the ignition console... but that seems to be close to $2,000...


    -Claudia k
     
  10. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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    Certainly won't hurt. If I recall, Birdman's site has a tutorial for cleaning the fuel injectors, if you think there's a problem.
     
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  11. Claudia k

    Claudia k Rookie

    Oct 14, 2017
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    Claudia khalil
    I just feel considering it’s sat for so long I’d rather be thorough than be sorry later for not taking the extra step. She’s a beauty, so she needs that extra love now more than ever.


    -Claudia k
     
  12. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran

    Jan 15, 2007
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    Claudia welcome! Justin has given you some very sound advice. When I first became an owner, I was given two pieces of advice that have stuck with me since day one..
    - "Take your time and don't be in a hurry when making repairs."
    - " their just a car, they don't run on Magic." < this seemed to drop the anxiety level a notch or two. Haha.
     
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  13. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    The overheating issues is a problem with the QV, not your model.

    The 80-82 cars were known for burning oil.
     
  14. jmaienza

    jmaienza Formula Junior
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    #14 jmaienza, Oct 15, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
    Getting a car that your dad had is certainly special. A 20 year old car needs special care. As previously stated, a car sitting for years get more unhealthy and more unreliable with each successive year. My car sat for about 10 years and it took me two and half years to get ti back in shape.

    The first thing to do is have a PPI done by a professional. Get a written report or take notes as things are checked.

    You will face several challenges and need to make some major decisions before you begin to put your time and money into this project. I do not know the extent of your automotive knowledge and mechanical skills so this will focus on some basics.

    1. Decide what level of restoration you want, essentially a daily driver, a weekend driver or show car/collectable. Having said that, if its a driver, your really need to have the mechanical systems working properly. Cosmetics, such as seats, paint finish, carpets, etc. can be left as is, if you want, and can be attended to later, but mechanicals must be addressed if you want a dependable car.

    2. Decide who will be doing what work. There are many systems on the car that a home mechanic with some skills and tools are capable of tackling. I did most of my work myself, but left the engine rebuilding to a professional Ferrari mechanic. I did remove, dismantle and install the engine myself to save some costs. I also left some welding of the aluminum coolant tubes to a certified welder who could work with aluminum. Finding the right person can be challenging. their expertise, time frame, cost and location are all considerations. Just because its a Ferrari doesn't mean you have to go to a restoration shop to get certain work done. For example, a competent automotive machine shop can certainly press in or remove bushings, a welding shop can do several types of welding, a plating shop can plate your hardware. By acting as a project manager and farming out your work to sub-contractors, you can save money.

    3. You really need to educate yourself before you remove one nut or bolt from the car, especially if you are going to tackle many of the systems yourself, such as cooling, brakes, etc. Get the written manuals that pertain to your car, get an copy of the electrical system, get an owners manual. Read them all. FerrariChat is one source of info, but beware, there are many people that post opinions, as opposed to facts and, unfortunately, most of the professional and certified mechanics have left this site. Everyone has an opinion and it can sometimes help you narrow down your options and diagnosis. My general rule of thumb is if I post a problem, such as a carburetor issue, and someone starts their answer with, "I don't have a carb car but..." I take with a grain of salt, a big grain. Again, it may help with my final diagnosis, but from my experience the poster trying to be helpful, but it is often a guess. Beware!

    4. Plan your work and make a budget. For instance, if you are going to overhaul your brakes, evaluate the system first. The PPI is a start, but then educate yourself so you understand how the system works, the individual components, how to evaluate and repair/replace damaged parts. Also, several systems can be worked on simultaneously because you will be removing some parts to get to other parts. For instance when removing the suspension, you will also remove the brakes and rotors. Replacing hardware can become a problem if you don't plan in advance. Nuts, bolts, different types of washers, ringnuts, nylock nuts, etc. have to be taken into consideration when taking things apart. Removing a stuck fastener, cleaning dirt, rust and corrosion and then repeating are all decisions to be made. find source for hardware and nothing make a repair look good like cleaned or new hardware. Sources include belmetric.com and mcmastercarr.com. Deferred maintenance is a real problem with many old cars. Hoses and rubber bushings dry out and get soft, metal rusts, bearings wear out. Its a big list, but these are wear items.

    5. When you work on a system, you need to inspect, evaluate, clean, repair/replace every part of the system. I cannot overemphasize this. When I had my car apart and was checking the cooling system, I almost did not remove the two long cooling tubes, but I figured I should check them for any abrasions that could cause a leak. Although the tubes were intact, they had a thick liquid that looked like chocolate milk in them (oil and coolant mixture). If I had not removed them and filled my system with new coolant I would have contaminated my new coolant and then wondered where the contamination came from...so be thorough. I have read many post on FerrariChat where a person poses a problem, such as cooling problem and the engine is overheating. The poster states that he just replaced this, that and the other thing and the engine is still running hot. Finally someone asks if its the original radiator and the poster says yes, another person asks if its ever been out and checked and the poster says no. Bad diagnostic skills! Be sure you check every component of a system because these cars are over 30 years old and yours had been sitting over 20 years, that is a major factor. When doing this, you may get to a point where you have to decide or simply can't evaluate if the part is functioning. At the very least, make a note of this so if you have a problem later with this system you can make a better diagnosis.

    6. Replace EVERY hose and fuel line. Period! Your car is old and has been totally sitting. You should not and cannot tell if the hose is safe unless you take it off and inspect it, which at that point, you are halfway there and just replace the hose, also consider new stainless steel clamps properly torqued. Hoses include fuel, fuel vapors, brake, coolant, heater, vacuum hoses, vacuum hose from engine to brake booster, AC hoses, and overflow hoses. Sourcing these hose is challenging because there are so many different types of hoses and some uncommon metric sizes. Read and educate yourself and spend some extra money on the gas tank hoses from David Helms's company.

    7. Consider pulling your engine. Depending on the condition of your engine, what it needs and how dirty things are, pulling the engine will allow you to clean the engine compartment, inspect the gas tanks, change hoses and have access to work on the engine (change hoses, clean and degrease, change belts, adjust valves, etc.).

    8. Quality work takes time and a bit of money. It sounds like your really want to do this car up right. Take your time, don't rush a job or leave step out, get help from this board and other Ferrari boards and sites before you do the work and pose questions. In the end, it will be worth it and, hopefully, you won't have to do a job a second time.

    9. Beware of Ferrari myths. Two common ones are that gearboxes won't shift into second gear when cold and the AC doesn't work. Well they do on my car. There is reason why second gear is often reluctant to engage when cold, but it doesn't happen to every gear box. The AC system is fair to good, but not excellent. Basically, the AC fan does not have enough capacity to push enough cold air to cool the cabin in extreme temperatures and humidity. The front windshield acts like a greenhouse the heat the car. However, my car will keep me cool on most days and cold on some days, so I have to turn down the fan. I changed out my hoses to modern hoses, installed new fittings, O rings, schrader valves, dryer and expansion valve. I had the system properly evacuated and pressure tested and then installed R12 coolant. The condenser and compressor were checked and every part of the system was checked and inspected. Slow windows, dim headlights and carburetor issues are some other systems where people expect this poor performance. There are real reasons why this happens, but they all can be fixed. I look at it this way: When Ferrari made my car in 1978 and sold it, these systems worked. People shifted into second gear, turned on the AC, drove at night, opened and closed the windows and had good performance from their engines. Thirty to forty years of age, lack of use and deferred maintenance will make the systems perform poorly. Its up to each owner to either decide to fix it or live with it, but just remember that your car did not leave the factory like that.

    Good luck and keep us posted!
     
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  15. jmaienza

    jmaienza Formula Junior
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  16. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    #16 thorn, Oct 15, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
    Joe's post is outstanding. That one needs to be pinned somewhere.

    Some DIY I want to expand on... from the perspective of a recently-new 308 owner doing these sorts of things:
    • It should go without saying, but you need a garage you can work in. Large enough to be able to open all the doors, hood, etc and still easily walk around the car. If it's not bright, install ceiling lights. My car was on jackstands for 10 days once, waiting on a part to arrive. Can't do that sort of thing in the driveway with a car cover, unless you don't mind rain, heat, cold, and lack of security.
    • I had a few more tools than the standard screwdriver and hammer, but not everything I needed. Didn't have a torque wrench, or a 14mm allen key, or jackstands, or ramps, or a 36mm wrench, or ring clip pliers... you get the idea. Factor in those costs.
    • Don't use the wrong tool for the job. If you can't get a socket on a nut, don't spend an hour removing that nut with a wrench 1/12th turn at the time. Get a racheting box wrench and save your sanity.
    • Don't buy an expensive tool that you'll use only twice. Instead, utilize a place like PepBoys that rents tools for free.
    • When you're fatigued, stop working for the day. Fatigue makes you do things like drop tools in the engine bay, become careless and damage other things, etc.
    • Parts and hardware: It's not just about finding a replacement... it's also about dealing with hardware or a part that is missing from the car. And because you're not familiar with the car (yet), you might not even know they are missing. Be watchful for this. Compare your car to the exploded views on places like Ricambi, and pics that other members have posted here. And when you find that the screws are wrong, or washers are missing, or there's a mystery wiring - determine a sensible solution, and do it.
    • Remember that not every replacement part needs to come in a yellow Ferrari box (with the associated high price.) An "Original Ferrari" hazard switch is $250 on ebay. A standard "Lucas Switch" (which is what Ferrari used) is $22.

    Finally, as someone else here has said: Don't get too frustrated working on your Ferrari. Remember that you're working on YOUR Ferrari. :)
     
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  17. Claudia k

    Claudia k Rookie

    Oct 14, 2017
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    Claudia khalil
    Q.v.?


    -Claudia k
     
  18. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    '83-85 Models are "QV" (quattrovalvole) - 4 valve engines.
    Yours is a 2 valve car.
     
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  19. Claudia k

    Claudia k Rookie

    Oct 14, 2017
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    Claudia khalil
    Wow!!! You nailed it for me! Thank you!


    -Claudia k
     
  20. Claudia k

    Claudia k Rookie

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    Thank you so much! I fortunately have every tool I will need. I’m purchasing jack stands today to start on the simple things like the oil this upcoming week. I definitely will be keeping everyone posted! Your reply is very helpful! I can’t wait to post more pictures and get more help as needed.


    -Claudia k
     
  21. Baltz1969

    Baltz1969 Karting

    Apr 24, 2017
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    I just recently purchased an 81 308 that also sat for a long time. Stay away from buying parts on eBay (over priced). Super Performances in England has what you need for a fraction of the cost. Free shipping and usually takes about a week to receive the parts. Also search for the tread on this chat group that list a lot of interchangeable parts you can pick up at your local parts store. A car lift is a must, you'll be constantly accessing areas from under the car and through the rear wheel wells. Having worked and driving 60's area Mustangs it was a surprising and exiting change to drive the 308. Working on it has been a challenge, but has been fun. Have fun and enjoy.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  22. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Assuming they send you the part you thought you ordered. ;)
     
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  23. kerrari

    kerrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Welcome to the 308 sistership Claudia!
     
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  24. Claudia k

    Claudia k Rookie

    Oct 14, 2017
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    Claudia khalil
    Yes!! Thank you for having me!


    -Claudia k
     
  25. hyenahf

    hyenahf F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2004
    2,603
    im in the minority here, but i love the gtbi's and wish i can find another 2v injected car since i sold mine a couple of years ago.

    best of luck with the restoration claudia
     

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