What's camshaft control??!! P1530

Dr.Moe · #1 10-30-2011, 04:13 PM

Hi everyone. I have F360 200 F1. I get error code P1530. I did search and it turned I got camshaft control. Can someone explain what does it mean and what do I need to check?

**FerrariDublin** · #2 10-30-2011, 05:47 PM

Just did a little searching and all I got was your own thread in the 360/430 section so not a lot of help there I'm afraid!

As suggested by VR previously, in the absence of any concrete advice, I think I'd be starting by locating and cleaning all the earth points I could find. Also check all wiring to/from the valve that actuates the variator. Also I think there's a camshaft position sensor which might be worth locating and checking. Check all fuses too - you never know!

Perhaps someone here can offer more focused assistance in due course. Best of luck in the meantime.

Mitch Alsup · #3 10-31-2011, 11:12 AM

The exhaust camshafts in the 360 motor is controlled by a 'variator'. The variator moves the camshaft timing by 20 degrees under hydraulic control.

At low RPMs the exhaust valves are opened later in the exhaust cycle to turn more cylinder pressure into thrust (TQ). At low RPMs there is plenty of time for the exhaust gasses to leave before the cyclinder starts its exhaust stroke. In this timing situation, there is a lot of overlap (36degrees) which also helps mid-range TQ production.

At high RPMs, the exhaust valves are opened at the more normal (56dBBDC) timing point to give exhaust gasses time to escape. and to enable the engine to make its HP peak.

So, the ECU system has detected some issue with the control valve solenoid, or the variator. The WSM indicates a variator lifetime of 100,000 Km (60K miles).

duck.co.za · #4 10-31-2011, 11:23 AM

Mitch any idea at what RPM the change occurs ?

**FerrariDublin** · #5 10-31-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck.co.za

Mitch any idea at what RPM the change occurs ?

The exhaust timing change occurs at 2920 rpm - simple on/off. It happens at pretty much the same rpm as the exhaust valves open (assuming a decent amount of throttle input).

Mitch Alsup · #6 10-31-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FerrariDublin

The exhaust timing change occurs at 2920 rpm - simple on/off. It happens at pretty much the same rpm as the exhaust valves open (assuming a decent amount of throttle input).

WHile the above is correct, there is more than meats the eye.

I've been doing some engine simulations on F355 engines (so similar to 360 engines that inferences will hold true).

One of the simulations was what happens if one cam is rotated (re-timed) in one direction or another.

Rotating the exhaust valve so that the valve opens later adds power below 5500 RPMs and subtracks about 10 HP from the top end.

So the question would come up: "Why did they change timing at 2920 RPMs?" It ends up that you make more power leaving the cam advanced--however you concume considerably more fuel. THus the engine is more efficient even while making less power by retarding the cam at lower RPMs.

Dr.Moe · #7 10-31-2011, 06:18 PM

Thank you guys for the robust information. Can someone guide me which wires to check and which valves. If possible on diagrams or pictures from the parts manual or how to access them. Thanx again

**FerrariDublin** · #8 10-31-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Moe

Thank you guys for the robust information. Can someone guide me which wires to check and which valves. If possible on diagrams or pictures from the parts manual or how to access them. Thanx again

Hi Doc.

First, if you don't already have it you should arm yourself with the WSM available (for free) here.......http://www.ferraridatabase.com/The_D.../Downloads.htm

The attached photo will locate the actuator valve.

As for checking, I've not been there myself so can only surmise that there may be a cable on which you can check for voltage (probably 12v DC) above 2920 rpm and not below (or other way around). Check also condition of plug/socket. Try and trace back through loom to any other connections. Check and clean earthing points.

**FerrariDublin** · #9 10-31-2011, 06:51 PM

Here's another pic of the variator control which also shows the connection plug/socket.....

Tool?

duck.co.za · #10 11-01-2011, 02:38 AM

I'm by no means an expert on this topic !! The manual shows a neat tool , that uses compressed air to actuate the variator ?? Obviously the cams have to be removed .
The reason I'm interested in this topic is that I want to use a 360 motor in a transplant project and run it off a Motec ECU ( possibly a M84 or M800 ) . So these parameters are informative .
There was a 360 motor transplanted into a Rambler station wagon and they just left the cam advance alone .
I have read on this forum , that the exhaust cam timing change was more for emission purposes than power ???

Mitch Alsup · #11 11-01-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck.co.za

I have read on this forum , that the exhaust cam timing change was more for emission purposes than power ???

While emissions may have something to do with it, low end power (i.e. torque) has a lot more to do with it.

duck.co.za · #12 11-01-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch Alsup

While emissions may have something to do with it, low end power (i.e. torque) has a lot more to do with it.

So in otherwords it's worth trying to get it to work ?

**FerrariDublin** · #13 11-01-2011, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck.co.za

I'm by no means an expert on this topic !! The manual shows a neat tool , that uses compressed air to actuate the variator ?? Obviously the cams have to be removed .
The reason I'm interested in this topic is that I want to use a 360 motor in a transplant project and run it off a Motec ECU ( possibly a M84 or M800 ) . So these parameters are informative .
There was a 360 motor transplanted into a Rambler station wagon and they just left the cam advance alone .
I have read on this forum , that the exhaust cam timing change was more for emission purposes than power ???

Now that's a project I'd like to see here on F-Chat!

I believe the compressed air is recommended as a means to test the actuator out of the engine as it were. It's actually oil driven when in use. I guess the oil pressure from the engine is sufficient and all the actuator needs to do is open the valve to allow the pressure flow.

As Mitch has said, it's much more about having usable torque at lower rpm without sacrifice of maximum power at higher rpm. I'd definitely try and utilise the feature if I were transplanting the engine to another vehicle. All you need is to actuate the valve at a given rpm and above so it should be pretty easy to find a way to trigger that switch.

duck.co.za · #14 11-01-2011, 02:25 PM

The plan is to try and fit the motor ontop of a 308 gearbox ?? Not to highjack this thread , I have posted my progress on other threads .

**FerrariDublin** · #15 11-01-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck.co.za

The plan is to try and fit the motor ontop of a 308 gearbox ?? Not to highjack this thread , I have posted my progress on other threads .

Very interesting. You've set yourself quite a challenge I suspect. I'll search your posts and locate that thread - love an engineering project thread!

Dr.Moe · #16 11-02-2011, 01:04 PM

Thank you Greg for your valuable informations. I have the workshop manual already. I wonder how to get access to the valve? is it possible through the engine hood ?

**FerrariDublin** · #17 11-02-2011, 01:38 PM

Yes I would say access from the hatch behind the seats. Cam belt guards will be somewhat in the way but I'd say you should still see enough of it for checking of plugs/connections.

Dr.Moe · #18 11-02-2011, 07:33 PM

So I have to go throgh engine window. Do you have any idea how to check the valve functionality? Is it simply like the tail pipe valves which should be closed on idle and opens on drive above certain RPM?

**FerrariDublin** · #19 11-03-2011, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Moe

So I have to go throgh engine window. Do you have any idea how to check the valve functionality? Is it simply like the tail pipe valves which should be closed on idle and opens on drive above certain RPM?

I've never had to go there on mine (yet) so I'm guessing to a large extent. Also, I'm no mechanic or electrical engineer.

I'd check the connections and wires first for signs of corrosion. I'd check the wires back as far as possible paying particular attention to any earth straps encountered on the way. Next up I'd get a multimeter on line and compare the good side with the bad. I suspect one will see 12v DC above 2920 rpm and not below. Assuming that's the case I'd try supplying 12v DC to the good one (with engine off) and seeing what happened - I suspect one would be able to hear the actuation of the valve. Having established what a good one does I'd then try the other side to see if there's any difference.

Try the above (or not!

) and let us know how you get on?

Dr.Moe · #20 11-04-2011, 02:23 PM

I have done 1 hour job digged my way through the interior trims and cover till I got to the engine inspection door. There I got stuck with the civer of the camheads cover (timing belts). My problem in bank2 (drivers side). I foumd three structures blocking the cover which are: two pipes (coolant) and I think A/C belt. It seems that I have to loosen the tensoner but only possible by under car access. According to WSM I have to dissemble the rear floor cover to get access to the screw that loosens the tensoner. I will try to do it tomorrow hopefully I can access the screw through the inspection door with my small hand

. Wish me luck. I'm excited to solve a problem not discussed before which will enrich this forum and close this chapter for the benifit of other owners. I wish to success.