Differences between 119G and 119H engine? Performance upgrade for Mondial t .. | FerrariChat
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Differences between 119G and 119H engine? Performance upgrade for Mondial t ..

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by AR!, Mar 10, 2006.

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  1. AR!

    AR! Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2004
    981
    Berlin, Germany
    #1 AR!, Mar 10, 2006
    Cylinder 5 in my engine needs a rebuild.

    Now I am considering replacing the engine in my t with the engine of the later 348 GTS/GTB. The engine is rated with an extra 20 hp (320 hp vs. 300 hp). I found a seller with a factory new engine.

    What are the differences between the two versions? Airbox? ECUs? Compression ratio? Is an engine change a simple plug and play?

    Thanks in advance for every help!
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    #2 Steve Magnusson, Mar 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Can't help directly, but I'd suggest that you download the respective OMs from the Owners Site and compare every item (and illustration) in the Ignition & Injection section to see if there are any differences. Seems quasi-hopeful IMO since both use Bosch Motronic 2.7 (even though the F119H has a slightly higher compression ratio). If all seems identical, the next step would be to contact some F suppliers and see if the ignition and injection ECUs have the exact same PN or not (although a minor programming difference might not be a big deal). The OMs these engine tables are from are:

    737/92 -- shown as "Mondial T 1992" in the Owners Site list, and

    801/93 -- shown as "348 GTB 1993"
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  3. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Apr 1, 2004
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    SMG
    #3 smg2, Mar 10, 2006
    just looking at those tables sugest also some different cams, the power comes later and higher in the rev range and the max rpms are also higher. if they used a new/different profile than the earlier motor, you'll need to eithier get the ECU's for that engine or have 'chip' for the modified fuel curve becouse of the cams new profile.

    just shooting from the hip on this one. you could always give lyle tanner a call he might know and if not he'd know someone who does.


    edit, well add on. the mondial is heavier than the 348 so the torque at higher rpms would make the car feel slower with the newer motor. the max torque comes on 800rpms sooner than the newer motor and the torque difference is only 7ft/lbs.
     
  4. AR!

    AR! Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2004
    981
    Berlin, Germany
    #4 AR!, Mar 11, 2006
    Thank you for the excellent input so far.

    Meanwhile I found additional information from GeorgW in the archive. I also looked into the SPMs of the t and the 348 GTB and found out that the part number for the ECU is the same.

    In another thread I learned that the engine types can be identified by the plate next to the oil filter.



     
  5. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Jun 9, 2004
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    #5 Llenroc, Mar 11, 2006
    Other than the above mentioned timing changes etc. The intake plenum is larger which helped in that 20 hp increase. Which I guess you would not need to worry about but just a tidbit of info for ya. Also IIRC the Mondials were not 2.7 montronic they were 2.5s again I don't know that you care about that except that I thought the ECUs were different. Maybe not on Euro cars I'm in the US, Regards, Vern
     
  6. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
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    John Michael Gross
    #6 MondialTCab, Mar 13, 2006
    The Ts switched to the 2.7 setup during their production cycle. I don't have the exact s/n with me here at work but I do have ti written down at home if anyone needs it for shopping purchases.
     
  7. AR!

    AR! Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2004
    981
    Berlin, Germany
    #7 AR!, Mar 14, 2006
    Bought the F119H engine today!

    What I didn´t figure before: The wiring harness of the engine runs towards the passenger cabin, where the ECUs are located in the GTB.

    However, the t has the ECUs located on the wall between engine bay and trunk.

    This adds one more part to the puzzle :-(



    part# is 156536 for both the GTB and t.
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,779
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    #8 Steve Magnusson, Mar 14, 2006
    Hope it goes well, and post a pic or two along the way -- not an insignificant project.

    Are you forced to use the 348 wiring harness? I thought that if they we're really closely compatible that you could plug the new engine into your existing harness -- not so?
     
  9. AR!

    AR! Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2004
    981
    Berlin, Germany
    #9 AR!, Mar 12, 2007
    One year later the car is finally on the road again. We lost one year not b/c of the engine (which fitted well into the t with a couple of modifications) but due to problems with the electronic valeo clutch.

    As the 119H engine is almost new I will practice a cautious run-in, which includes not going above 4000 rpm for the first 500 km or so. Accordingly I will report about the performance differences in a couple of weeks.

    But what I can say by now is that the engine is LOUDER. This seems strange to me as there are only slight modifications (higher compression ratio, valve timing ...) compared to the 119H engine.
     
  10. WilyB

    WilyB F1 Rookie
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    Feb 23, 2007
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    AZ
    #10 WilyB, Jan 3, 2008
    Any update? Driveability? Power? Compliance with the Valeo?
     
  11. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
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    VIR Raceway
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    Peter Krause
    #11 ProCoach, Jan 3, 2008
    Interested t drivers want to know... <grin>
     

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