testarossa with fuel leak... | FerrariChat

testarossa with fuel leak...

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by bpu699, Nov 29, 2005.

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  1. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    16,210
    wisconsin/chicago
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    bo
    Well, I hardly get to drive the car now (weather and working too much). Before the last drive I looked at my garage floor and in addition to the usual tiny oil drops, there was a small puddle of gas...

    It looked like it was in the left rear, just anterior to the tire. Probably just below the filler neck. I haven't had a chance to probe this, but will try this weekend. The puddle was about 4 inches wide, definitely smelled of gas.

    I find this awefully odd. Fuel vaporizes fairly quickly...so I presume the puddle must have just occured. Note that the car hadn't been driven in 2-3 weeks, nor had it yet been started. I didn't drive the car that day, and have checked under the car since, with no more leaks. I do smell gas though.

    Is there anything in particular I should look for? Other than cracked fuel tubing??? Is the fuel pump in this vicinity?

    On the bright side, I guess I bought my lift just in time. Now I just need the "time" to work on it....
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
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    Brian Crall
    Fuel filter is just infront of tire and fuel pressure accumulator is just inboard/above.
    Fuel filler and related as well.

    Pumps are center, forward of motor.
     
  3. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Brian...

    Do you suspect this is a fuel line issue, or something else? Car had its major 1-2 years ago. Supposedly new fuel lines/filter/etc at the time....
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
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    Brian Crall
    Fuel lines at that area are all either hard or teflon with the exception of the fuel filler and overflow and those are very reliable. Fittings at the filter and accumulator don't just come loose.

    Accumulators do just die from age.

    Good news is it is all easy to see and most are easy to access.

    Make sure to dry everything, disconnect the crank sensors at the left side of bell housing and have an accomplice crank the motor. Look and feel for a leak. You can't always see gas but if you feel around fittings, lines etc and smell your fingers that is sometimes more reliable.
     
  5. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Brian, I appreciate it... now I just need more time!
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
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    Brian Crall
    In my last post when I said "those are very reliable" I was referring to the hard and teflon lines, not the filler and overflow hoses. Those are just plain old rubber.
     
  7. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Dec 9, 2003
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    Alright, I finally have a couple of hours to put the car up on the lift, and try to fix it...

    In anticipation of this, any comments on how much the following MAY cost:

    1) Fuel accumulator
    2) Fuel filler hose
    3) Fuel filter

    Any of these parts 16000$ or more :).

    I will keep you guys posted...
     
  8. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,223
    TN
    fuel acc. I paid $95 for one a fews year back for one of my cars
    fuel filter $15
    not sure how much the fuel filler hose is
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,038
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    For US version TR, the fuel accumulator and the fuel filter are just common Bosch parts that you can buy from any Bosch supplier -- see:

    http://70.85.40.84/~ferrari/discus/messages/256120/131096.html

    (but the problem always is that the more the parts cost, the more profit for the shop so they have no incentive to minimize the parts cost ;))
     
  10. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Ok, need some further help. I got my car on the lift, and the leak is coming from a hard to see spot. With the car running the gas is literally pouring out in a steady stream...

    Best as I can tell, one of the fuel lines, when seen from the bottom, is drenched with fuel. This is the fuel line (?Vent line) that seems to enter into the botton aspect of the left fuel tank. It is right at the fire wall, and just barely reachable from beneath the car. It seems to be toward the middle of the car, but slightly to the left.

    From the top, I can't tell which line it is. There are several fuel lines on top, going to what looks like a fuel distributor bar of some sort. These are black rubber covered in a fabric mesh. These look ORIGINAL. Somewhat surprising, as the car had its 15,000$ service, I would assume these would have been replaced.

    These lines are not easy to get to. I was going to detach the soaked line from the fuel tank, and tug on it to see which line moves on top. Any other ideas??? Can someone explain to me exactly where the fuel accumulator is? Could this just be a rotted line???


    I have the workshop manual but I don't see and good picks of the front of the motor showing the fuel lines!

    Help, please.
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Bo -- The Accumulator locations are shown in Figs 47 and 48 of any US TR OM (but TR Accumulators don't have the vent-to-atmosphere apeture so they can't drop fuel themselves like the 308 Accumulator). Fig 48 also shows all of the pressurized fuel lines. The "fuel distribution bar" you mention is part of the fuel evaporation control system and those hoses aren't pressurized nor normally wetted unless the tank is very full and things are sloshing about (but they still should be well maintained of course).

    IIRC the only "rubber" pressurized line going into the gas tank are the return lines from the fuel pressure regulator (they start out as steel lines at the pressure regulator but then transition into rubber lines), but have a look at those figures (and maybe also have a look at the fuel evap control section) and see if you can be more specific about your problem.

    PS IMO, it would be much better to remove the fuel pump relays and use a 30-to-87 jumper wire at the relay socket (per the WSM) to run the fuel pumps without having the engine actually running (if you're looking for the leak under pressurized conditions). Good luck (and be careful).
     
  12. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the info. I will look at the shop manual again, I don't recall seeing good pics of the fuel system, but I was rushing.

    Can you explain the above quote in more detail please?

    Brian mentioned disconnecting the ingnition and cranking it, which was the next plan of attack. But I am open to ideas....
     
  13. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the info. I will look at the shop manual again, I don't recall seeing good pics of the fuel system, but I was rushing.

    Can you explain the above quote in more detail please?

    Brian mentioned disconnecting the ingnition and cranking it, which was the next plan of attack. But I am open to ideas....
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 Steve Magnusson, Dec 20, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OM = Owners Manual (not WSM)

    (After removing the fuel pump relay) If you add a jumper wire from the 30 terminal of the relay socket to the 87 terminal of the relay socket, the corresponding fuel pump will run (even with the ignition key "off") -- here's the Figure from the US TR WSM.

    PS Don't get confused by the labeling on the fusepanel door -- what they call the "RH" fuel pump is physically mounted on the RH side of the chassis, but it serves the 7/12 (LH) bank and vice versa.
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  15. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Cool, thanks. Hopefull I have a couple of hours this weekend to putz with this. As there is 3 inches of snow on the ground, I am not in much of a hurry :).
     
  16. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    OK, shoot me...

    I looked at the owners manual, and I am still confused. Best as I can tell, the fuel accumulator/filters are off to either side. The fuel pumps are supposedly under "a panel" accesible from the bottom (per an archive search)...

    None of this seems to be where my leak is from...

    When I look at the bottom of the car, there is ONE rubber line, covered in white fiber, coming out out the driver's side gas tank. It plugs into the bottom of the tank, toward the middle of the car. This line is drenched with fuel, and for the life of me I can't tell where its coming from. This line is barely reachable by hand from under the car, as you have to be a contortionist to even touch it.

    Laying under the car, the line dissappears into never-never land, between the motor and the firewall. Looking from the top, you see even less.

    So, is this the line that leads to the fuel pump? I hope that the fuel pump isn't located between the motor and the firewall, because it would be a b*tch to get to. What exactly is located here?

    The OM pics aren't 3d correct, so I still don't know whats up there...

    Could this still be a fuel pump issue???

    Help... :(.
     
  17. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 Steve Magnusson, Dec 29, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have to agree that there are very few good illustrations that show the true layout of the overall TR fuel system. The lines from the fuel tanks to the fuel pumps are very short, large diameter (non-pressurized) hoses as shown in this Figure from the WSM (but IIRC you can't even see them unless the bottom covers are removed or missing), and the fuel pumps are mounted between the tanks at the bottom of the chassis. I thought you mentioned that the leak was much worse when the system was pressurized so it could be coming from the fuel pump itself or the check valve fittings or the banjo fittings/line on the output of the fuel pump (if that's the general area where your leak is -- but I'm still not clear either ;)):
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