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Serial numbers: suffixes

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Sempre_gilles, Oct 6, 2005.

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  1. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    #1 Sempre_gilles, Oct 6, 2005
    For a while I am busy building a database on Ferrari's by serial number. Lately it struck me that there seems to be a lot of confusion in the literarture about serial number suffixes: a car noted as "MM" in one book is mentioned as "M" in another. There seems to be an endless confusion about M, MM, AM, E, ED, EU, EL, ET and TR suffixes, most authors seem to agree on GT and SA.

    For me it seems logical that one simply copies the notation as used by Ferrari.
     
  2. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

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    #2 jtremlett, Oct 6, 2005
    If only it were that simple! I think you will find that Ferrari used different things at different times and that it is not altogether unknown for a car to have different variations stamped in different places.

    Jonathan
     
  3. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    #3 Sempre_gilles, Oct 6, 2005
    I meant: serial number including suffix as stamped on chassis identification plate.
     
  4. billnoon

    billnoon Formula 3
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    #4 billnoon, Oct 6, 2005
    No giant mystery. Most of them are pretty self evident:

    M Monza

    MM Mille Miglia

    AM America

    E Export

    ED Export Tubolare

    EU Export Europa

    EL Export Longo

    ET Export Tubolare

    TR Testa Rossa (two words not the modern single word piece of !@#$%)

    Some others are:

    CM Carrera Messicana

    MD Mondial

    MD/TR Mondial Testa Rossa

    GT Grand Tourisimo

    I Inter

    S Sport

    LM Le Mans

    TF Targa Florio

    AT America Tubolare

    C Corsa

    ES Export Sport

    F Formula

    FL Formula Libre

    MI Monza / Indianapolis

    SA SuperaAmerica

    SF SuperFast

    Anyway, thats all I can remember of the top of my head...there might be a few others.

    Cheers,

    Bill Noon
     
  5. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    #5 bigodino, Oct 6, 2005
    In literature information is often copied so if someone makes a mistake this mistake is repeated in other books (because fact checking is often impossible). If Ferrari would have been consistent correcting these mistakes wouldn't be such a problem but as Jonathan correctly observes Ferrari wasn't that clear either so individual cars from the same tipo can have different stampings.

    Ciao, Peter
     
  6. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #6 El Wayne, Oct 6, 2005
    While we're on the subject, does anyone know exactly when or with which model the suffixes ceased to be used? My '63 GTE, for example, is simply "4289." The assumed "GT" suffix does not appear anywhere on the car.

    Edit: A quick check of Hil Raab's book shows the "GT" suffix being used on all PF Coupes and on the first 100 series II Cabriolets, but not on subsequent PF Cabs (until 2593 when the odd "GTF" suffix appears and lasts through the rest of the run). It was used on the interim 250 GT Berlinettas, but not on the SWBs. Likewise, it was also used on all of the LWB Californias, but not the SWB Californias. As well, it was not used on any of the GTEs.

    The suffuxes "SA" and "SF" continued to appear on all Superamericas and Superfasts up until the last 500 Superfast (8897 SF), which seems to be the last car to have a letter suffix used in the s/n.
     
  7. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    #7 Sempre_gilles, Oct 7, 2005
    There you go: in all literature (several books, Cavallino) all SWBs are listed as "GT".
     
  8. ArtS

    ArtS F1 World Champ
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    #8 ArtS, Oct 7, 2005
    Wayne,

    I'm pretty sure my 330GT's ID plate says 7919GT (not that I have a picture in front of me to confirm). I think I'm missing your point.

    Bill,

    I think 0030 and 0032 were MU.

    Any thoughts?

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  9. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    #9 Sempre_gilles, Oct 7, 2005
    I have them both as "A", but seen different suffixes for 0030
     
  10. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #10 El Wayne, Oct 7, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Art, On page 58 of Keith Bluemel's Original Ferrari V12, there is a photo of 9557's chassis # plate. The chassis number is stamped as "*9557*."

    Raab has both as "MT" and, though he provided no chassis # plate photos, Sheehan listed 0030 for sale as "0030MT."

    http://www.ferraris-online.com/cars/0030/0030a.html

    Yes, in literature that seems to be true for SWBs, GTOs and others, but the actual cars are stamped without a suffix, as "250 GT XXXX":
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  11. enzo360

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    #11 enzo360, Oct 7, 2005
    Ad,
    as you may have see the words logical and Ferrari don't go together well! In many discussions I've read here and elsewhere (like the VIN plate discussion on here, ...) Ferrari is not the example of logic. It seems that Franco, the guy that stamped the suffix's on the engineblocks, VINplates, etc never was replaced on his days off and not even when he retired.
    This question has puzzled me also for a long time and up to date have not yet found an answer. The list of serial numbers in Nowak's book "Ferraris on the road" keeps the suffix GT much longer (11183GT = 330 GTC), but that's also the last serialnumber of the list.
    Jurgen
     
  12. ArtS

    ArtS F1 World Champ
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    #12 ArtS, Oct 7, 2005
    Wayne,

    You're right about MT, my memory is fading - must be Friday. Now, what does it stand for?

    I'll double check on my tags, but I think mine looks like the pictures, I guess I was mixing up the location of GT.

    Thanks,

    Art S.
     
  13. billnoon

    billnoon Formula 3
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    #13 billnoon, Oct 7, 2005
    Very tired...so no one jump me if my memory is wrong.

    I have been in the sun most of the day and racing when they let my group out... so here goes.

    0030/MT and 0032/MT I believe both started out or at least 0030/MT as 0030S or possibly even 0030F for maybe on race. In anycase the MT I believe stands for Mille Miglia Tubolare. These were the only two cars given the MT suffix as far as I know.

    Anyway...time for some Peroni, Jacuzzi, Pasta...a little dancin if the young lady is not too tired...then some well earned sleep before tomorrows track-side mayhem.

    Cheers,

    Bill
     
  14. ArtS

    ArtS F1 World Champ
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    #14 ArtS, Oct 10, 2005
    Bill,

    Peter M., the previous owner told me he thought it stood for Mullo Typo (please excuse my spelling), meaning test mule. This kind of makes sense as they are the first Lempardi engined cars. Any thoughts?

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  15. billnoon

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    #15 billnoon, Oct 10, 2005
    Nice guess, but not very likely. Then again...I could be wrong.

    Cheers,

    Bill
     

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