308 cooling RESERVIOR???

Your 308 should already have a cooling reservoir in the engine compartment. It's on the passenger side rear wall of the engine compartment. It will buy you a little extra time by increasing the system volume if you're pushing the system harder than it can handle, but it sounds like you have a fundamental cooling system problem; water pump or radiator issues.

Someone, I think it's Spasso, has a website with plans for fire extinguisher mounting. Try a search in the classic section on maybe 308 fire extinguisher mount and see if you find it, or if someone has the link.

 

Bleed your cooling system - both the front and rear. One bleed screw is located on the top of the radiator and one over the thermostat. If that doesn't help, replace the thermostat. If you still have a problem take your radiator to a radiator shop - it probably needs cleaning. An additional resevior probably wouldn't help and if it did would only be a temporary cover up. Also, make sure your fans are coming on a 195 degrees although I wouldn't think this is the problem as you generally don't need the fans if you are moving.

 

look at the fire extinguisher mount at www.tradetutor.com/raceprep/
posted by mcharness many times

 

When was the last time the cooling system was flushed,
and new coolant added?

I have replaced the stock radiator with an aluminum unit with shroud and electric fans, and had to modify the spare tire tub, and no a spare tire will no longer fit.

 

I have an '84. After some time dealing with my 308 running hot, which is quite common on these cars, I did the following which now keeps the temperature (both water and oil) pegged at 195 degrees.

New aluminum radiator. It's lighter, has more cooling capacity (holds more volume and has many more fins) and the aluminum dissipates more heat faster than the stock brass. Some will argue this point, but I know it to be true.

Changed the stock fans to new SPAL fans, the biggest I could get to fit in the stock location. This took some mods to both the fans themselves, and to the stock brackets which had to be hacked off and replaced with new ones. The new fans made a SIGNIFICANT difference. They add much more airflow which enabled me to NOT have to modify the spare tire compartment. This summer, with the a/c blowing as cold as it did, I think the fans help the a/c too!

Added a fan to the rear oil cooler - a puller type. This is tied into the water coolant circuit so it starts/stops with the front fans.

Added an overflow tank to the coolant tank, which stopped the coolant "pissing" out after an aggressive run, and as a result helps to "manage" air infiltration into the system.

In total, this cost me about $1,600 US over a couple years. I did all the installation and electrical work myself which saved me LOTS of hours of labor. The highest cost item was the new radiator, if I recall it was about $750. The fans were another $400, the overflow tank maybe $50, and the remaining $400 was for various electrical and mounting hardware (I have three new circuits running from the battery to each fan, with new relays and breakers (the new fans don't run through the stock relays or fuse panel).

The only other change I will make at some point is to have the alternator re-wound to put out more power as when the fans kick on, they draw a lot of current (nothing that interrupts anything, but this is just on my mind).

Let me know if you want any pictures.

Phil

 

Eric, no questions are stupid but I sometimes feel that some of the ones I ask are.
As far as cooling, I installed 2 Hayden fans. So far so good.

 

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Let me know if you want any pictures.

Phil[/QUOTE]

I think we would all love pictures of the mods. I have the same problems you mentioned with my car and I live in Seattle. How exactly does the new radiator and fans look. I would also like details on the extra reservoir. Where is it located?

Thanks,

Philip

 

cleaning is a good suggestion.......also, check to make sure the foam strips against the hood and rad and also between the rad sides and the supports are still there!

By now most of them have crumbled..make new ones!

Also, seven years is a LONG TIME for a water pump, IMO. My daily drivers need one every three to four years.

I guess it's the Gulf of Mexico water I use..........

 

Here's the new rad and fans. Looks very stock. And the oil fan.

Also, the overflow tank. First the tank sitting on the bumper before install. And then installed - under the coolant tank on a frame cross member.

Phil
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Thanks for the pictures. Where did you get the overflow tank? And how does it work? It looks very clean and stock. I will start working on getting a new rad.

Thanks Philip

 

Where can I find Hayden fans?

 

I got mine at Pep Boys here in Georgia.

 

I have a set of dual Hayden fans that I might sell.
I used them at first as a replacement for the stock fans,
before I installed the new radiator with shroud/puller fans.

 

The overflow tank was being sold on eBay. I won the auction and ultimately had the fabricator also make those semi circular "shoes" that the tank is sitting on which enabled me to securely mount the tank to a flat surface.

I think I still have the guy's email, he was selling them for $75-$100 at the time, if I recall. I will look when I get home.

Although, anyone with some metal fabrication and welding experience could probably make one, it's just a cylinder with two caps welded on each end, drilled to hold the brass tube nipples. It's not under pressure. The stock coolant tank "pee" line goes into the bottom of the overflow tank, and another "pee" line comes out the top of the tank and ends down somewhere under the engine. When the car heats up, and the coolant expands, it "pees" out the coolant tank cap, and into the overflow tank. When the coolant then cools, it shrinks which creates a vacuum in the line will then pulls the fluid back into the stock coolant tank.

If I can't find the guy's email, check some Pantera parts places, as I am positive my buddy with a '74L Pantera bought an overflow tank from a parts place that regulalry stocks them.

Phil

 

I tiewrapped a catch tank onto the existing overflow tank on the 308. $20 from pepboys.
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Nice.

But, unless I am confusing the perspective in the photo, it looks like your "stock" coolant tank isn't actually the stock tank. Is it mounted "standing up"?

Phil

 

Maybe I just answered my own question. After I wrote the above I looked at your profile and see you have a Euro version, maybe they had different tanks and had them mounted in different locations, as from the photo yours appears to be more on the passenger side of the car.

Phil

 

Yes Phil, i have the euro version, and it is mounted more on the pass side of the engine compartment. here is another pic.
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John,

Looks like you've spent hours detailing the engine bay, looks real clean. Nice job (and I'm sure the picture isn't doing it justice).

Is your car a stock Euro? Just curious, I am used to seeing my own engine bay (QV USA version) and see that on yours, the plug wiring is also in a different location.

Phil

 

A few things I have gleaned from various websites, regarding the differences between aluminum and brass/copper (BC) radiators. First there is the weight issue. Yes, its true you can save a couple pounds using a aluminum radiator, but if you look, they usually are thicker, and have larger tubes. This has to do with thier strength and heat shedding differences over BC. So to have a aluminum radiator that can shed the heat required of a BC radiator, it has to be thicker. And, because the tubes are larger, the internal liquid volume of an aluminum radiator is greater, offsetting the initial weight loss. Ther simple truth is that BC is stronger, and sheds heat more efficiently for any given size. Which is why you still see BC radiators used in commercial applications. Now we have to ask ourselves why we want to run on the street without a full size spare when we really don't have to. I will keep my stone age BC radiator until they quit making them.

These cars never had any cooling issues when they were newer, so its not a design fault, its a maintainance issue. The OE fans and radiator work fine, as far as people on all these forums have claimed, no matter what area of the planet they live on, as long as it was in good repair. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. But go ahead. The more 308's get bastardised, the more mine will be worth.

 

Phil a carb car either euro or us has the rad. res. mounted on the passenger side. The FI cars locate them on the other side. Also unless you are running in 100* temps all of the time your water temp should not go over 195 and when the fans kick on it should go down to 180. If you run up in the 225 range then something is wrong. These are small motors with a large radiator so there should be no over heating problem unless there is air or blockage. Its a waste of money to put in big fans and alum. rads without correcting the problem. So 80*-90* days your gage should run at the 1st notch while driving 50-60mph with the AC on. When you are in stop and go traffic it may creap up to 195* but when the 2nd fan turns on it should either keep it at 195 or it will start coming down below the 195 mark. Anything else is a mechanical problem. my 2c

 

Thanks. I've been through this for years now, and my experiences are different.

The issue is mostly air flow, or lack thereof.

I've had the car checked out by two different, well known and respected shops. They tested the radiator, bled the system over and over, one time on the lift they tilted the front of the car up, then the back of the car upward, trying to see if there was an air bubble trapped somewhere that they could get to rise to the top. The motor is in very very good shape with now only 20,000 miles on it. The car is not beat on, it is very well cared for. I have full documentation from day 1, including the window sticker. None of the pipes are damaged or corroded, and all hoses are new. And the water pump is in like new condition. Nevertheless, as soon as the outside temp goes to the high 80's, the car's water, and then oil temps would rise to well over 225 - I would have to shut the car off to let it cool before driving again.

Now granted, if I was highway driving at 60+ mph, there was no issue. But around town, which is where I do most driving, in NYC and surrounding suburbs, I could never really trust the car unless I had it out in February.

I personally know other folks with 308s, both carbed and FI, both in the US and in Europe, and everyone has the same issue. A couple of my friends have Pantera's with the same problem also, which makes sense as the format of the engine and cooling system is identical. It's ironic, on all these boards it seems like I'm the only guy with this problem and everyone else’s 308 runs cool. But that is not the reality.

Did I mention that the problem is air flow, or lack thereof?

The car did have an adequate cooling system coming out of the factory, but only if your driving conditions where mostly like I said above - long periods at cruising speeds. The cars where not designed well for more urban driving. And with very little room upfront for airflow, unless you are at highway speeds there isn't much air flowing around or through the radiator at 30-40mph. To make matters worse, the spare tire cavity essentially blocks the entire rear of the radiator.

Bastardized? I don’t' think so. I do most of the maintenance on the car myself, so I know it very well. I could reinstall the stock rad in maybe under an hour, without even removing the lid or the a/c. The aluminum rad is no different than a Tubi or aftermarket wheels, easily reversed. As for the fans, a couple of spot welds and all is as it was before.

The aluminum rad weighs about 12 pounds less than stock. It is exactly the same size (dimensions) as the stock rad but holds more fluid. I know because I weighed both when both were out of the car. Then I filled both with water to determine capacity, and the aluminum rad held more fluid, about a 1/3 more if I recall, I can check my notes when I get home tonight. The aluminum radiator also has probably twice as many cooling fins as the stock rad. So its capacity to cool is far greater than the stock radiator. Also, the black paint on the stock radiator only further hinders its efficiency.

Phil