Chapter One / Jacking up the 308 GT4 Ferrari | FerrariChat

Chapter One / Jacking up the 308 GT4 Ferrari

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by robertgarven, Jun 1, 2005.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Page 1 of 2
  1. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,269
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    #1 robertgarven, Jun 1, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    My dream is to share what I have learned working on my 1975 308 GT4. I am working on a book "Ferrari Service for Dummies or What I Learned on the Internet" Here is my first installment. If you find any mistakes please let me know and I will revise it. As most of you may or may not know, I decided 11 years ago that I wanted to do my own work as I loved my car so much I couldn't trust anyone to touch my precious Ferrari. I started on the original Ferrarilist.com and met may members who guided me along the way, many are here now also. I also had help from several experienced Ferrari mechanics whose names will be witheld as not to embarass them with my aquaintance! I am also on several other Ferrari lists as I am a nut and have all this free time when I am not working! :) I Hope you enjoy what I have written and I can help some other poor soul who was as lost as I was 11 years ago. Please give me feedback as I am in the slow process of becoming an amateur Ferrari mechanic! Respectfully, Rob (Robertone) Garven


    Chapter One / Jacking up the 308 GT4 Ferrari
    (This procedure should also work with the 246, 308, Mondial, 328 series.)

    Tools needed:

    1. 1 set of heavy duty low profile ramps
    2. 2 low profile floor jacks (Sears sells a new racing aluminum floor jack for about $200 get two, they work perfectly although a Lincoln floor jack is the best!)
    3. 4 heavy duty jack stands (each should support 1-2 tons, I have 4 Lincoln 2 ton jack stands)
    4. 4 wheel chocks.

    Optional tools:

    1. 1 large vanity mirror and or 1 friend ( If you have a friend to help you, you are lucky, I am always out working on my Ferrari so my friends are probably out driving theirs)
    2. 4 polyurethane soft jack stand pads
    3. 2 soft floor jack pads
    4. 4 light duty (1 ton)auxiliary jack stands


    Note: Never get under your car supported only by jacks. I have done this personally but I love my car more than myself. If you do this, make sure you have a good insurance policy. Your family will thank you, and at you memorial I will tell them I warned you in advance and try to buy parts off your car!



    1. Make sure all work is done on a level and clean surface, you are sober (optional) and at least someone is around, (in shouting distance) in case you have an emergency.

    2. Drive car up on suitable ramps (If you have a lift you have already pissed me off, consider yourself lucky and skip to chapter two.) If not, you may use a mirror strategically positioned to view your progress up the ramps. It may take a couple of tries to get it lined up. Be patient and careful. Note: you do not want to drive off the end of a set of ramps!

    3. Place gearbox in 1st gear with parking brake on. Get out of car.

    4. Place two wheel chocks behind rear wheels on ground and two behind the front wheels to prevent the Ferrari rolling down the ramp.

    5. Position two floor jacks, one on each side to jack the car up from factory jacking points that are near rear of door on the outer frame rail. Originally the car had metal tabs, shaped like an inverted U, which the factory jack was designed to fit into. Most non-concours cars will have them bent down or back. Use a jack with a soft pad or fit a soft jack pad to floor jack to minimize damage to frame. If tabs are in the correct position, you may use a piece of hard wood to facilitate lifting, without damaging them.

    6. Slowly jack up the car evenly from either side with floor jacks. You can use a helper or go back and forth, trying not to get car too uneven in the process. Your goal is to get the rear of the car jacked up level and even with the height of the front.

    7. Continue to jack up the both sides of the car just enough to place one set of heavy-duty jack stands on main frame rails near the front or rear of the rear suspension. On my Lincoln two-ton jack stands, they are at the very first notch, which incidentally corresponds with about the maximum height of my floor jacks. Make sure the stands do not interfere with or rub against anything but the rail. On the GT4, do not be surprised if the front and rear wheels are in the air at the same time as you jack up each side. Again, make sure your ramps have some kind of lip to keep the car from rolling off the front, if not you can use one of your chocks. As you slowly lower the car evenly on the two rear jack stands check to make sure that they are in the right position. As you jack the car up and down the alignment will change and I usually adjust the stands final position about a 1/2" from its contact point. Note: make sure the stands at the same height, are aligned evenly on both sides and are perpendicular to the frame.

    8. You must remove the front access panel to get to the frame to place the jack stands on the front of the car. Note: while you have this off is a good time to check all the hoses, steering rack, brake lines etc. that inhabit this important space! It is also a good time to change your coolant. A trick is to remove the hose that goes to the heater cores, this will prevent you from trying to open the front petcock which is not only impossible to get to will drain into the front belly pan and make a huge unnecessary mess. (See chapter on coolant change)

    9. Slowly jack up the car from either side again just until you can slide the two front jack stands under the correct frame rails (see photo). Again slowly, lower the vehicle from either side checking alignment of the jack stands to the frame.

    10. Your Ferrari should now be evenly and securely supported. You may remove the ramps. I have four auxiliary light duty jack stands which I place near the outer frame rails when I am not working on the car. This is not necessary but just in case of an earthquake or similar catastrophe it makes me feel better! If your car has fallen on its side, please re-read the part you missed the first time.







    Legal disclaimer: I am not an expert just an experienced owner so the techniques and procedures I describe should be used with care and caution. Any damage incurred to vehicle, property or persons is the sole responsibility of the owner. Note: I have a sense of humor, you may not, please take this into account while reading this as this is therapy for me!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,269
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    #2 robertgarven, Jun 1, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,269
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    #3 robertgarven, Jun 1, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. Dom

    Dom F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2002
    8,482
    #4 Dom, Jun 1, 2005
    Nice!


    Just one question. If you have 2 floor jacks, why do you need to use the ramps? Why not just jack up one side of the car, put down the jack stands, let the car rest on the jack stand, and then jack up the other side of the car?

    P.S.- I definately endorse the aluminum 2 ton jack from sears. Has low clearance so that you can fit it under the 308, is relatively light (~40 lbs), and is Red.

    Dom
     
  5. lusso64

    lusso64 Formula 3

    Apr 12, 2004
    1,535
    Simi Valley
    Full Name:
    David
    #5 lusso64, Jun 1, 2005
    You could also incorporate a difficulty rating.... "This is a 2 beer task - on completion, reward yourself with 2 beers..."

    Dave
     
    Andrew McCrae likes this.
  6. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    #6 pma1010, Jun 1, 2005
    Rob
    Look forward to the ensuing chapters.

    On Ch 1: Some of the scariest moments I have had concern taking the car down from four (high) jackstands. I remember one stand being canted over at a "nice" angle as each corner of the car was lowered. And this was after doing it a dozen times.

    I bought a lift (yea, I know, I read your warning). One of the best investments you can make. About $2500 new, installed. And yes, it is a 4 poster and I do take all four wheels off.
    Philip
     
  7. Mikey P

    Mikey P Karting

    Dec 1, 2003
    162
    San Ramon, CA
    Full Name:
    Mike Ponte
    #7 Mikey P, Jun 1, 2005
    Maybe you can give me some help....I'm about ready to drain and remove my radiator in my '83 QV. I've checked all of the archieves and have found very little on a good step by step procedure on how do this. I posted earlier this morning, however no one has responded to my thread. Please help!
     
  8. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    #8 Ken, Jun 1, 2005
    A note on ramps: I have plastic ones which are nice and light, but don't contact the garage floor as cleanly as the metal ones in your picture. When I back my car onto them, I must go smoothly. If I stop and start when the wheels make contact, one can shoot it at great speed and force backwards which needless to say can be dangerous!

    Ken
     
  9. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,269
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    #9 robertgarven, Jun 1, 2005
    Mikey,

    I have never removed my radiator but draining is easy, although messy the first few times.

    Dom, The reason I use the ramps is two fold, it gets the front of the car high enough off the ground so I can get under it and take off the access panel safely. I also use them when I dont want to take the wheels off the front as for an oil or coolant change. It also prevents me from having the car at extreme angles. Even though the wheel sometimes comes off the ramp as you jack one side up it always is resting on the other side on the ramp so I feel that there is another layer of safety.

    Ken my suggestion is to not back on them on most service its nice to have the car even so I would drive on them and raise the back.

    Rememeber these are all suggestions as I am not an expert but I have done this at least 25 time now give or take.

    Phillip damn you! My garage is not tall enough for a lift! You are a lucky man, however crawling around under my car for hours to get it up on the stands is some of the best excercise I get! :) Can you tell I don't have sour grapes!
     
  10. stephenofkanza

    stephenofkanza Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2005
    542
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Stephen LeRoy Sherma
    #10 stephenofkanza, Jun 1, 2005
    Sorry to piss you off. I bought a lift before I bought my 308 because I figured
    I could not afford a Ferrari if I did not do the work myself. I figure I am where
    you were 20 years ago, I know you started 11 years ago. To get to my question, I have a 2 post lift and I am not sure of the lift points. I have read the underside of the 308 is tender and a misplaced jack or in my case lift arm can twist the frame. I assume (I know meakes an ass of u and me) that the left points are where the HEAVY JACKSTANDS are used -place one set of heavy-duty jack stands on main frame rails near the front or rear of the rear suspension.
    I am not sure if the following 'You must remove the front access panel to get to the frame to place the jack stands on the front of the car.' should have preceeded 'place one set of heavy-duty jack stands on main frame rails near the front or rear of the rear suspension.'
    From what ai understand you to say the front access panel must be removed
    before I can use the lift on the Ferrari 308.
    I am slow but sure (and at 60 I haved earned the right).
    stephen
     
  11. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Apr 23, 2002
    14,921
    Montana, Oregon, Hawaii
    #11 Glassman, Jun 1, 2005
    Something here doesn't look right. Why in the hell are the jack stands and jacks so freeking clean?
     
  12. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,269
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    #12 robertgarven, Jun 1, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Steve and Mikey,
    I am just kidding about the lifts guys. I would put one in a a NY minute if I had the overhead room! I'm only pissed cause I am still crawling around! But it is so 70's isn't it??!! Glassman, my neighbors are constantly fixing up their houses and since I put all my money in the car and garage I like to keep it clean like the Ferrari Factory! Priorities, I guess. My neighbor gets a new roof, I buy a Sun distributor machine! They paint there house, I vaccum my garage!

    Steve,
    These instructions are only for the jack stand method. Since I dont have a lift I am not sure exactly where I would put the lift arms but if they have soft pads I think the area where the main frame goes into a triangle section is a strong place. If you live near a Ferrari dealer I would go check out their service bay, manytimes I have seen a mix of old and new cars and they almost all have the two post lifts and I always find the mechanics freindly and helpful and the salesmen not. Here are some pics but they dont show much. The reason I have to take off the access panel on the GT4 is that my jack stands have a definite Y shape which is real good for the oval main frame rails, but in front the bottom is fiberglass and the Y shape would seriously deform the bottom on the outer rail, the only place I have found is where I put them safely is where they are. It is a square I beam looking section which holds the front suspension. I know there are a few guys here with lifts you may want to ask the question in another thread here in the tech area.

    BTW You guys are probably all smarter than me. I am just doing this for fun and if I help a new owner that would make my day. Many have helped me and I want to give something back. However nothing beats reading your manuals and getting at least 5 different sets of advice before starting any major project. If 4 are in agreement you can be sure that either they are right or the other guy is smarter than your 4 other friends! HA!

    Rob
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. stephenofkanza

    stephenofkanza Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2005
    542
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Stephen LeRoy Sherma
    #13 stephenofkanza, Jun 2, 2005
    Thanks for the advice. Autolifters makes a 2 post lift that will fit in a 6ft
    ceiling ( I had my garage built with 12ft because I wanted a a clear floor)
    with a hump on the floor. They require a 4inch reinforced concrete floor.
    Stephen
     
  14. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,269
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    #14 robertgarven, Jun 2, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Steve,

    My problem is I live in small house in S. CA which was buit in the 50's and has a support beam so even though the lift might fit to get the car high enough to be worth it it would crush my roof (of the car). Its OK I have allot of fun out there just takes some time to get it ready to work on. I asked Verrell to comment here as I think he has a lift and a 308 about jack positions. What year is your car? In the factory manual there is a frame schematic I will post it. I think the frames are pretty strong and actually hoping my stand points are OK!!!

    This is for a QV
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,017
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #15 Verell, Jun 4, 2005
    I have an '82 Euro 308 GTS QV, but the frames are essentially the same from the GT4s thru the 328s. (Hmm, wonder if anyone's ever rebodied a GT4 with a 3x8 body or vice versa...)

    JACK STAND POINTS:
    FRONT: Your front jackstand points are fine. About the only place up front you can use with those overly large jack stands.

    Many smaller jack stands have fairly flat top supports. With them you don't have to remove the access panel. I've got an pair of Sears jack stands that are almost flat on top except for a couple of 1/4" high ridges. With flatter jack stand tops, you can also use the member that angles behind the front wheels as well as the point you've selected. I'd tend to use the angled member because it gets the jack stands well out of the way when doing front suspension work.

    REAR: The rear points you chose are structurally good, but the jack stands will restrict access to the ends of the engine, can get in the way of some service operations. e.g.: It is hard to sit with your legs under the car while working on the belts with the jack stands in the way. Also would block access to the timing cover studs, etc.

    Suggest moving the rear stand points to under the rearmost A-Arm mounts. ie: Just behind the triangular web beside the Al Air scoop/heat shield. Structurally that's plenty strong & the jack stands are far enough back so that they are out of the way of most service operations.

    Hmm, depending on what I'm doing I'd use different rear points. If doing rear suspension work, I'd use the points you chose. If doing engine work I'd use the ones I suggested above.




    2-POST LIFT POINTS:
    FRONT: Put the front lift pads anywhere along the ~45 degree members that go from the outer edge of the body inward just behind the front wheels. I try to get the pads as far inward towards the joint between the angle member & the member the front A-arms attach to as I can. However, anywhere along that angled member is fine.

    REAR: I put the rear lift pad on the structural webbing plate with the U shaped bracket the jack fits into. Just put the lift pad snug against the inner end of the jack u-bracket.

    I set my lift pad height so the pads just barely slip under the pinch welds. Once the pads are under the car, I need an additional 3/4 inch so that my lift arms will be lower than the bottom of the pinch welds.

    I have cut pieces of 1" Oak to just fit on my lift pads. Slipping the round oak blocks into place is a lot faster than cranking my lift pads up an inch by hand after I've got them into place, then cranking them down again to get the lift arms out from under the car.

    I still have drive the car up onto 2x12 to get the car up high enough into the air for the lift arms to slip under it. I've mounted those rubber parking position locating mats(the ones with bumps that the wheel fits in between) on the two front boards so I won't overshoot & the car can't roll off of the boards.
     
  16. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,269
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    #16 robertgarven, Jun 4, 2005
    Thanks for the input Verrell! What do you think of the write up? I may be doing this more for me than anyone esle that way when i do a proceedure 10 years later I wont repeat my first mistakes!! You guys with lifts still piss me off ! :)

    Rob
    "Robertone"
     
  17. ArtH

    ArtH Rookie

    May 16, 2005
    47
    N. Virginia
    #17 ArtH, Jun 4, 2005
    Hi,

    Great write-up!

    Here's my question--this month my (new to me) 79 GTS must go for state safety inspection. The garage usually jacks it up to pull a wheel or two to check the brakes and poke around.

    Where's the safest places (front & rear) to tell them to put their jack?

    Thanks, all this is very uplifting.

    Art
    79 308 GTS
     
  18. tvu

    tvu Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2004
    1,310
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Trieu
    #18 tvu, Jun 5, 2005
    Great writeup Robert!! It's exactly what I'm looking for since I'm going to attempt a little maintenance on my own shortly.
    Questions - where did you get those ramps??

    Thanks
     
  19. 308ROB

    308ROB Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 14, 2004
    882
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Rob
    #19 308ROB, Jun 5, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Maybe ,this already old picture, will help you to find the lifting points.
    Infact this is where I put my jack-stands.Regards308ROB
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. davidgt4

    davidgt4 Karting

    May 28, 2003
    227
    Surrey
    Full Name:
    David W.
    #20 davidgt4, Jun 5, 2005
    Thanks Rob for some great information. V. useful for those of us starting out on a voyage of GT4 discovery!
     
  21. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,017
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #21 Verell, Jun 5, 2005
    Art,
    The 'GTS is the same as the other 3x8s & GT4. Best place for a single jack is the large metal plate just behind the U for the manual jack. Lifts one side of the car so front & rear tires can be removed at same time.
     
  22. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,269
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    #22 robertgarven, Jun 5, 2005
    Question? are any of your factory jack point "U"'s unmolested. I got the ramps from Sportys tool shop

    http://sportys.com/shoptool/

    I just looked and they arent in their catalog anymore. They were not cheap but very strong diamond plated and powder coated. They are also heavy but knowing they will support a giant bus as they had in theri caatalog add makes me feel safe. The bus actually had a SF sheild on the door in the pic. I have had them for several years now.
     
  23. tvu

    tvu Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2004
    1,310
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Trieu
    #23 tvu, Jun 5, 2005
    Thanks for checking on the ramp. It's just hard to find a low profile ramp.
    I'll have to visit my local auto speciality shop to see if they have anything.

    Take care.
     
  24. ArtH

    ArtH Rookie

    May 16, 2005
    47
    N. Virginia
    #24 ArtH, Jun 5, 2005
    Thanks for the info on the jack point. An oaf at a tire dealer dented up the floor pan on my Triumph with a floor jack so I'm real careful with any place that doesn't know about unusual cars.

    By the way I have a set of shallow angle plastic ramps which I got for my Triumph (which has about a 5" ground clearance). I think they are called Rhino and are gray plastic. Quite well made. About $30 at my local auto parts place, Advance Auto. Haven't tried them yet on the 308 but prob will do the trick.

    Art
     
  25. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,017
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #25 Verell, Jun 6, 2005
    One (driver's I think) jack point U was pristine, other side had one leg bent. Straightened both of them a while back when I straightened & POR15'd my pinch welds.
     
Page 1 of 2

Share This Page