328 GTS no start....

This shouldn't be a mystery once you get to the fuel pump. Not only are they pretty good about keeping the convention "black = ground" on the wire colors, the ground connection will be local to the fuel pump itself (a short black wire hooked directly to the chassis somewhere nearby).

(I'm looking at the '89 328 wiring diagram, but am 99% sure your '87 is the same in this regard.)

Test 1

1. Remove the fuel pump relay (...113 type),

2. Touch a jumper wire from the 30 female terminal of the relay socket to the 87 female terminal of the relay socket as shown in the jpeg.

You should hear the fuel pump run (even with the key "off"). If not, measure the voltage from the 30 female terminal of the relay socket to ground and from the 87 female terminal of the relay socket to ground -- one of those should be +12V. If you've got the +12V available and the fuel pump doesn't run, either the fuel pump is toast or there's a problem in the wiring from the relay socket to the fuel pump.

Test 2

There's also a switch on the airflow metering plate mechanism involved in the food chain of putting (and keeping) +12V on the fuel pump (i.e., the switch detects the airflow plate has moved under the force of intake vacuum to confirm that the engine is actually running or cranking) -- you might verify manually that this airflow plate is free to move (and that it does move during starter motor cranking).

Test 3

If you pass Tests 1 and 2, with the fuel pump relay still removed, measure the voltage between the 85 and 86 female terminals of the fuel pump relay socket -- it should be +12V (or -12V) during starter motor cranking (and with the airflow measuring plate deflected). Of course, the engine won't start.

Try those for a first look of what might be the area that needs help.
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You can just remove the blue grounding plug at the airflow meter between the air box and the fuel distributor and the pump will run full time with the key on.

 

Dave,
Pull the fuel cut distributor plug, & you should be able to hear the fuel pump running. If see if a test light on either of the fuel pump terminals will light, clup the light's ground lead to chassis metal somewhere convenient.

If doesn't run, but light glows, -> bad fuel pump, or bad power or ground connection to fuel pump.

If no light, then no power, go look at relays & fuses.

 

I pulled the blue plug located right below the fuel distributor with the engine on and the fuel pump was not running. When I moved the throttle plate, I could hear a clicking at the fuse box. I guess I am going to have to get the car towed to the wrench to check it out and possible replace the fuel pump.

 

To have the fuel pump run during that "pull the blue plug, turn the key on" test also requires that relays U, R, and S are working properly. If you just want to test the fuel pump by itself, do Test 1 as described previously.

 

If the fuel pump is ok and fuel pressure is good (get a CIS fuel gauge tester), try the cold start injector. They tend to die unexpectedly.

 

Hi Mr. Handa,

To throw my 2 cents in here: we've determined the FP doesn't run with safety switch disconnected & key on. At this point I think you need to isolate where loss of power is occurring (with voltmeter or test light). Removing the FP/accumulator assembly isn't difficult (just a little messy) but don't think even this is required (terminals can be tested without removing). Verell's suggestion about checking ground @ pump is good; there's a short black wire with ring terminal that affixes under one of the FP/accumulator mounting screws. Also as I recall behind the passenger kick panel is the fuesbox-to-rear wiring harness multi-plug connections.

Oh, if he removes the two lower screws panel will drop slightly to access FP relay. I found I needed to remove side multi-connectors to remove completely. Don't think it's common on 328 but I understand the relay spade terminals can loosen or occasionally fracture off the printed circuitry?

Hope this helps, although you've much better advice than mine above.

Carl

 

One other thing, when I press down on the large plate beside the fuel distributor underneath the air filter housing, I can hear a loud click at the fuse panel. Disconnecting the blue plug does nothing even with the power on.

 

Is this a US model?

On US editions, when you turn the ignition on, relay "u" provides ignition power to relay "s". The coil of relay "s" is grounded through the safety switch, so when you press down on the AFM plate, the ground is removed and relay "s" deactivates. Removing the connector for the safety switch should do the same thing. Do you have the right blue connector?

With relay "s" active (ignition on, engine not running), the key "start" position is fed (thru fuse 9) to the coil of relay "r". With relay "s" inactive (ignition on, engine running), ignition power from relay "u" is fed to the coil of relay "r".

Relay "r" switches battery power (thru fuse 20) to the fuel pump (and some other goodies).

This sounds convoluted, but it makes sense: When you turn the ignition on, the fuel pump doesn't run yet (CIS pumps fuel constantly, if the pump ran with the engine off, you'd flood the intakes). When you turn to the start position, the fuel pump comes on with the key switch. When the engine starts to suck air, relay "s" deactivates, and the pump runs constantly, unless the engine stalls. If the engine stops injesting air (stalls), relay "s" activates and the pump stops until you hit the starter again.

First, you should check fuse 9 and fuse 20. If they're both good, turn the ignition on -- relays "u" and "s" should activate (click). (With the panel off, you can feel them operate -- but those relays get warm so touch them cautiously.) Depressing the AFM plate should cause relay "s" to click off and relay "r" to click on. Disconnecting the safety switch connector should do the same.

With the ignition on and the engine not running, pulling relay "s" should cause it to click as it deactivates. With the AFM safety switch disconnected, relay "s" is already off so it won't click when removed -- but relay "r" should click when you remove relay "s". (You could have a helper push down the AFM plate as you remove relay "s" and see if "r" clicks.)

If relay "r" operates correctly and you have no power to the fuel pump, try measuring ohms across the fuel pump. (Relay "r" pin 87 with relay removed, or non-voltage side of fuse 20 recepticle with the fuse removed and relay "r" active.) The thermo-time switch(?), aux air valve, cold pressure regulator and fuel pump all come off that relay, so if any of them are shorted, you won't get power to the fuel pump (and you should have blown F20).

If there's no power at pin 30 of relay "r" (key off or on), you either have a dead battery or a problem with your relay panel.

 

Is it out of gas?

 

Hi guys, I have the same problem, fuel pump not running. In the daigram in post #2 where it says "2. Touch a jumper wire from the 30 female terminal of the relay socket to the 87 female terminal of the relay socket as shown in the jpeg." does the jumper wire go on the relay terminals 30 and 87, or into the holes where the terminals 30 and 87 would be inserted? Will any piece of wire do? sorry, not at all technical.
Thanks.

 

Nigel

In the holes of the socket the relay came out of

 

For a brief (just a few seconds) test almost any size jumper wire will do (e.g., 18 gauge or larger), but to run for a long time use a big wire for the jumper (maybe 14 or 12 or 10 gauge) -- the current is pretty high (like ~10A on a working fuel pump).

 

Shouldn't be an issue if you're not in the middle of winter in a COLD region. My cold start injector was disconnected for years. Now it's removed. No problem starting although I've never tried starting it below about 40 degrees F. since I don't drive it in that kind of weather.

 

I would reccomend you check the wiring harnes connector located behind the pass foot well... I had a crack in the Fuel Pump connector there... had the same problems, its not hard and pretty easy to check out I put the key on, used my tester and voila when you here the buzz at the fuel dist... you know that is the problem... you have to disconnect the blue lead to the Fuel dist.... far cheaper to diagnost on your own, than taking to the shop....

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73463&highlight=fuel+pump+328
Click on this link. Pictures/locations wire diagrams and everything you need including some other links. Shows relays, wires, which fuel pump to buy if you need one etc. Very easy to read and understand

 

That was the problem. Thanks all for the advice.

 

For what ever reason, the fuel pumps pull lots of amps, and the connectors/ fuses are not robust enough... glad you found it. it is frustrating for sure!

 

Hello Everyone ,
I got one Ferrari 328 GTB ,model year 1986 ,wish misalignment of timing belt ,can you guide with technical procedure to check timing and do the proper timing alignment? Thanks

 

Timing events on this engine are set at .050 mm of valve movement. That means that when the valve has opened (intake) to .050 mm the crankshaft degree wheel should indicate a position of 16 degrees Before Top Dead Center (BTDC).

You will need a degree wheel and adapter to install it on your engine, a pistons TDC stop or dial indicator to measure TDC, a dial indicator with attachment to fit the head and follow the bucket (valve).
There are a couple of different ways to get to the .050 mm. I measure the valve clearance, say .026 is what the one valve you are using is set to. When the dial indicator shows .024 of movement then the valve is at a total of .050 with clearance and you can take your crank degree reading there.
My preference is to set intake opening and exhaust closing, .050 from closed. Measure the exhaust valve you use as it will have more clearance and the set number will be lower, (.033 clearance & .017 dial indicator reading = .050). On a 328 exhaust closing is 10 ATDC base version, 14 ATDC US.

You will get different responses here and that is fine. This is just how I do it.

 

You typed too many zeros, or got F mm specs and typical US .050 inch specs mixed together -- should be 0.5mm (or .020") on a 328.

 

Yes I did. My bad, I am a US spec guy. Thanks for the clarification.