Caution: Snake Pit Ahead.

DOC


TRY WWW.CARBUYER.COM

HIT FERRARI AND ALL SEARCH


I FOUND 2 CORVETTES AND MY TR FROM THERE

GOOD LUCK!!

BRUCE

 

cuz' I've found that most people suck! I used to trust everyone until they gave me a reason not to, now as my faith in humanity has regretably dwindled by the school of hard knocks, my view is the opposite. Too bad you wasted so much time, that bites.

 

Yeah, but look at all the stories you have. Makes a lot of us look borning.

 

DD.

It's not really a difference of opinion, it's plain old lying, cheating and stealing. You can't be all that surprised. And yes, it sucks, a lot.

But, that's how used car salesmen got the reputation. They EARNED IT. Just because the price has three more zeros than the price for that '87 Malibu doesn't mean the guy is going to be any more honest, or honorable, does it?

On the up side, they aren't all like this. I think Tom Shaughnnesy, at least based on reputation from a couple of folks I've talked to, is a straight shooter about what he sells, and the folks at Algar gave me the absolute straight poop on the car I bought.

You just have to find the right couple of guys, and stick to letting them find you what you want.

BTW, there's a nice 330 in the shop at Algar right now getting fixed. Why not call them and see if the owner is tired of the car?

DM

 

Seems like there is a great deal of conveniently "slightly mis-represented" cars out there, but there is enough blame to go around to all makes and sellers, not just Ferrari's. Maybe it is greed, or maybe ignorance...either way, it comes off as dishonest, and most people get justifiably PO'd when they are looking for something like a Ferrari and a seller isn't totally forthright. Unless you are very knowledgeable and have a high mechanical aptitude, at some point you have to put your faith with someone who knows cars and won't screw you! In other words, educate yourself to the point where you are comfortable doing PPI's for yourself-you will save a ton of money in the long run, and you will get alot of personal satisfaction from doing things yourself and knowing things were done right.

 

This thread is exactly why I would never by a car on Ebay or any other auction site or internet seller without seeing it for myself, first hand, and having it inspected by an independent mechanic who I can trust. I've known several people who bought cars, sight unseen, based on photos on Ebay and "assurances" from the seller that the cars were absolutely 100 point concours perfect cars, only to find out they were anything but that. Several other friends found cars on Ebay or internet sites, but went and looked at them before bidding/buying. One got a great '72 XKE 2+2 (just like the one in my avatar) that he bid on after inspecting it, at a great price. Another got a nice early XJ6 sedan that had a few problems, but he saw them and knew what he was buying. No surprises if you go look before hand.

Unfortunately, there are some real scoundrals out there. Caveat emptor. There is no substitute for seeing the car with your own eyes and driving it.

Of course, if you bought one and didn't like what you got, you could alway put an ad on the net and sell it to one of those email guys who "has a client willing to buy your car for your asking price and will arrange shipping at his own expense" if you just supply your bank account number so they can do a wire transfer. Oops, that's right, they want to do it OUT of your account, not into it. Oh, but then there is the guy that has this certified check drawn on a Nigerian bank that he wants to give me....

You're doing the right thing. Keep looking. But do what you have done -- go look at them in person and have them inspected to avoid an unfortunate surprise.

 

This is a great thread.
Not being a Ferrari expert, I chose to go through a well known broker, figuring that he would represent the car accurately. In that business, reputation is everything. I tried two, Randy Simon and Tom Shaugnessy after some, let's say, 'disappointing treatment' at my previous favorite Ferrari dealer. TS scored a hit first, with the exact car I was looking for at a price better than I had imagined. He ably represented the car, and the PPI backed up his representation. One of the things you pay a broker for is accurate representation prior to the PPI.
It seems everyone the F-market knows each other, and word gets out quick if there is a poop.
Anyway, my experience would lead me to use Tom again, although I understand he's gone 'high end' now and may not be in my next market (BB, 246 or 330) purchase.
Just my experience, no affiliation, yada...
best
rt

 

I went by blind faith & the advice of a mechanic from another Ferrari dealer close by & found a perfect Ferrari. I trusted everyone only asking a few of the right questions. Then there was karma in that I was born in the city were I found the car. The first time I saw the car was when it was delivered (from Long Island to Savannah). My Ferrari expert & everyone here was impressed w/ the flawlessness of the car. Sometimes you just have to say, “what the f**”. (Risky Business movie).

Some other shots of Fishsticks & his Easter bunny.
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They are old cars.

People lie.

Get over it.

Just kidding.

Karen_ where did you get those photos of Uro's cat? (oops, i check his profile).

 

If you think Ferrari shopping is bad, wait until you look for a Lamborghini. It took me four YEARS to find the right car and a reputable person to buy it from. Lambo makes about 70% less cars annually than Ferrari and most of the people I met in looking were about 70% less ethical than the equivalent Ferrari people.

This is a hobby where if you don't have a significant amount of your own time and money to invest [burn] in the search, then it is worthwhile to pay a higher price to a dealer or broker with a sterling reputation.

 

I think most of the really nice vintage cars are sold quietly to local buyers who have know the owner and car for a long time.

BTW, private sellers can lie with the best of them.

DAve

 

Both Shaughnessy and Sheehan (http://www.ferraris-online.com) are on the "low BS factor" side. And if you find a car on the East Coast, rope tomyang into helping you, if you can. Trusted referrals is the name of the game in vintage Ferraris, and the commision is worth it to avoid the aggrevation. And even then, count on something going wrong in the short term (with the car). But at least, you will get out of the world of gross misrepresentations and you get jump into the market.
Good luck with the search, do not get discouraged. The hunt should be fun !

 

Hey Doc,
Had the same issues when looking for a 328GTS three years ago...got lucky and found one from a local seller, but man, there are some terribly misrepresented cars out there. When I started looking at 355's last fall, I decided I would work with qualified independants and FNA dealers only...found a nice car at FoS, and a fair deal was struck.

Don't let it get you down...stick it out, and you will find a good car, but you are right, it can get damn frustrating.

Dave

 

Uro
I'm just starting what I am coming to suspect will be a long and arduous search for my first Ferrari. I sympathize with your complaints, but this thread is a bracing tonic for someone who is often tempted to take the easy way out.

BTW: I realize Kitty Fishsticks has garnered numerous compliments, but as a new member of the board, I would like to add my own superlatives to the towwering heap. The only obsession I have that rivals my yen on Ferraris is my fixation on felines.

 

I agree about using a broker - I've had a lot of success with Shaughnessy and Brandon Lawrence at Sportcars Italiano - I've bought several cars with the help of both of them. Sure, brokers charge a fee for their services, but reputable guys like these find and sell reputable cars, and I've been very pleased with the results. They tend to know about cars that may not yet be on the market, so you'll have a better chance getting a good one.

I'll also add that even though it seems like you're paying a lot now, I think that in 2 years you'll be glad you jumped on the bandwagon - prices are going up.

 

you are a very sensitive and perceptive man.

KF

 

For my 40th birthday, my wife surprized me and bought a 1964 Lincoln Continental convertible from some lying cheat in Alberta, Canada. Direct quote in his ebay ad: "I think this is a number 2 car" My understanding is that a number 2 car is one that all mechanics are functional and the car is in good condition, not perfect. After going thru all the hassle of getting the car imported from Canada and brought to Maryland, the car was in deplorable condition. A good friend of mine got the car running, rebuilt all the brakes, ran numerous lines, bought new tires, spent countless hours on the motor (which leaks profusely), had a broken motor mount, mufflers were rusted out (it sounded like a sherman tank on steroids coming down the road, basically was running straight pipes, into the passenger compartment). Luckily, the top still works. That's a miracle unto itself considering there are hydralics involved as well as 21 motors. The top itself is a mess.

The problem was, the car being white, photographed well. I love the car, its been quite a bit of work. In the end, I can probably sell it to some young fool who will put a set of 22"s on it and a bumping stereo. I get offers everytime I drive it in DC. But, I'm attached to the vehicle and don't want to get rid of it just yet, even though the wife is quite vocal in her desire to do so. I'm trying to work the "investment" angle. They aren't making ones like this any more. And as long as the Matrix keeps showing and rap stars like to put suicide doors in the videos, there will be a market for the car.

In the end, the guy who sold the car was a crook. We put very negitive feedback on his account. Got absolutely no satisfaction from him. We did hear from 2 other fellows who were going to buy cars from him but didn't. He had an old Caddy for sale and the guy asked the seller, what's the shadow on the hood. Responce, that's just how it photographed. Reality, it was rust.

You have to have local validation of what ever vehicle you are going to purchase. Its worth the investment and can save you 1000's down the line. Now, anybody know how to pull a 700 pound 430 motor? unknown to the wife, I found a rebuilt and have it hidden in a friend's garage. Just need to figure out how to get the darn thing into the engine compartment without the wife finding out. If anyone mentions this, I will deny the story.

good luck

kcv
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I will add an unsolicited plug for Steve Ahlgrim. I got my Dino and my first 308 from him back when he was at FAF. In fact, I sealed the deal on the 308 over the phone without seeing it. Both cars were Exactly as described.