Testarossa wheels detached from car at high speed!!!!

Dude! Glad you are OK, sounds like a torque spec problem to me...there WAS a recall on the Speedlines one year but I think it had to do with the rim bolts and causing flats, not the attachment to the car!

Again, just very glad you are OK.

This probably was a one time thing. Use a torque wrench ALWAYS on ALL Ferrari lug nuts!

 

I'd calm down, and go have a LONG chat with the seller....did it damage the sheet metal as well????

 

That is exactly why they discontinued those. There is a procedure for installing them that if not followed will allow that to happen.

 

You may want to recap that for our friend here........

As an aside, these cars can do 150MPH so you were on the low end of that!

Big " silver lining" Tex

 

Get a torque wrench and check them all, I know Rifledriver may have better information..I think you prelube them, or maybe you pre LOCKTITE them.......

I can't think of anything worse than being passed by your own wheel!

 

The single wheel nut system used by Ferrari on the TR requires a torque spec of about 350 ft-lbs and also requires a special 8 sided hex nut. Most likely the place you bought the car from (or the previous owner thereof) couldn't or didn't torque the wheels correctly. The lug wrench supplied with the car is designed to mount/dismount the nut by pounding on it with a big lead hammer. Not very precise. Check your tool kit for an oversize spanner. This fits the wheelnut. Next bash the wheel nut on/off with the lead hammer. There should be an arrow on the wheelnut indicating the direction for tightening. (Be careful I may have this backwards as the arrow may be for loosening!!) Also the direction to tighten/loosen is different on left right.

I would try loosening each wheel nut, backing them off, cleaning the threads on both parts well, add some no slip copper grease and then tighten them via the hammer. You will want to bash the hell out of the spanner to get them tight. If you are out of breath and close to a heart attack after doing four then you haven't torqued them enough!

Or go to a dealer/good repair shop and get them done right.

Also be aware that the wheels can get frozen on the axles. This is because of the tight fit spline between wheel and axle. Best to remove wheels, clean splines completly, and then liberally coat everything with Copaslip/anti seize grease and then reassemble everything.

Big bummer--I would yell and scream at dealer--they should have checked the wheel torques before selling car. If car was bought from private individual then you are out of luck.

 

Sorry to hear about that - the same thing happened to me on my 87 TR back in 1999. The wheel had been properly torqued - went on a long trip (1100 miles). Took the car out the following Saturday and the left rear wheel came off - threw the single nut and, as with yours, the car fell on the wheel after the wheel left the hub, crunching the left rear quarter panel. Mine was at low speed - maybe 15 mph as I saw the wheel starting to come off in the side rear view mirror and was braking hard before it actually left.

Total damage was approximately $28,000 and I had to fight/sue the insurance company for a year and a half to get it covered. It was ugly.

BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU TELL THE INSURANCE COMPANY. My lawsuit centered around the fact that they wanted to claim that the wheel came off due to a poorly manufactured part by Ferrari (essentially a vehicle defect), which was excluded from my policy - they wanted me to go after Ferrari for it. Good luck! While a number of the cars had this happen when they first came out, it is now pretty rare. Again, READ YOUR POLICY EXTREMELY CAREFULLY BEFORE REPORTING THE CLAIM!! SEE WHAT IS EXCLUDED AND MAKE SURE YOUR REPORT DOESNT GIVE THEM ANY LEEWAY TO AVOID YOUR CLAIM.

Also, DO NOT LET THE INSURANCE COMPANY INSPECT THE CAR UNLESS IT IS IN THE COMPANY OF A WELL-TRAINED FERRARI BODY SHOP OR DEALER!! I guarantee they will dramatically underbid the repairs if you do, and you will have to fight for the rest. On the police report for my accident, the cop estimated the damage at $3000. As I said, it was almost TEN times that. Make sure the adjuster sees your car with someone who can explain the reason that Ferrari parts and labor are dramatically higher. You don't just bolt on a new quarter panel with the TR (assuming you can find one at all) - it may take 100 hours of aluminum work to hand fit it. I cannot overstress this enough. If you don't have a good local shop, ship the car to an authorized body center FIRST and then tell the insurance company where they can find it.

For future reference, when you put the wheels on, the hubs should be DRY. You do NOT lubricate or lock-tite them. Lubricants, while common because the wheels tend to corrode onto the hubs because of dissimilar metals, should NOT be used. They affect the torque readings you get and prevent a tight fit. Same with lock-tite. Get yourself a real torque wrench and check them often. Whether it's necessary or not, take the wheels off the car once a year or so to avoid corrosion locking, then put them on and carefully re-torque them. Always check the torque again a little later after running the car.

Best of luck to you - sorry for the bad experience. Trust me, I know your pain.

 

Who ever was last responsible for installing the wheels is responsible and should step up to fix the car.

That was never a pattern problem on the old female thread knock off wheels. It only became a problem on the TR knockoff's when the fastener was in fact a bolt with male threads. It is due to the dynamics of the inertia on that overweight fastener. It was a design change that was required by you know who, our very own government who in their desire to see us all safe required a design change because a bunch of know nothing oak desk engineers decided that the classic knock off was dangerous and they had a better idea.

The next problem is that if the wheels are installed correctly they can when the car is driven aggressively actually tighten themselves. We have over the years had to take the wheels off in teams a few times because we wear people out loosening the wheels. When they are that tight the high torque 3/4 drive air guns just wreck the bolts. Ferrari did not abandon the design because it was so good.

To install, the male and female threads and splines have to be clean (I mean solvent and wire brush clean) and lightly lubricated with a high temp grease. Next install the wheel and the bolt and NOW TIGHTEN THE BOLT BEFORE PUTTING THE WHEEL ON THE GROUND. That seems so simple but is so often not done. The problem is that the splines on those are very long and if the wheel is not well tightened against the taper before the wheel is put on the ground it will simply cock and bind on the splines. In that condition you can torque it to 500 lbs and it will still be loose and fall off. Next lower the car to the ground, get a friend with strong leg muscles to stand on the brake pedal and torque it to 325 lbs. That brings into play another problem. Very few torque wrenches are designed to torque in both left an right directions as is required to tighten those wheels. You need a special (more expensive) one that works in both directions.

If you do everything in exactly the way described the wheels will stay on. Seems like lots of trouble just to bolt a wheel on a car, just pray you don't have a flat.

 

While most of your advice is spot on, only the F40 and 50 were we to use no lubricant on the fasteners. Those were aluminum and it was found to be better not to. On the TR light lubrication is recomended. And while retorqueing is never a bad idea, if installed correctly they don't come loose. If incorrectly installed it does not always become evident right away, in fact I have removed many of them that were loose for who knows how long.

 

First of all, glad that you are okay.

Second, you did mention that you have 18" wheels on the car, which means they are aftermarket wheels correct? If yes, I would go after the seller or the dealer. But I think you will have a hard time proving that it was them who did not put the wheels on properly. Again, glad that you are okay.

 

While I'm not at all farmilar with TR knock offs it's surprising that they dont have a safety pin or some sort of set screw. On my 66 corvette I have knock offs and in the center of the spinner there's a cap that comes off and there are 3 or 4 different places to insert a safety pin depending on the position of the kock off. You would think that a safety pin would be part of the design of any knock off but...

 

The TR taught Ferrari a lesson, have a look at the F40 or 50.

 

Just to clear up some misconceptions:

You need to lubricate the splines and the wheel nut for two reasons:

1.) Keep the thing from freezing up.

2.) More important-it will minimize the loss of torque due to friction on tightening. You can lose up to 50% of the torque applied to a nut/bolt system thru friction. Properly torqued up (which means applying a certain amount of tensile preload to the bolt) a bolt/nut cannot loosen up, as long as the preload is greater than than separating load. Which is why you do not want friction. The torque applied creates the preload, friction reduces the torque applied, thus reducing the preload.

I have a fair amount of experience with single lug wheel nut systems, given the amount of race cars I have personally designed and worked on. On everyrace team I have worked on we always use a spray molycote on the wheel nuts/axle threads for the above reasons. For the street I reccomend an antiseize because it is longer lifed and gives better long term corrosion protection.

 

Al See - A great deal of good, albeit conflicting advice has been offered on in this thread. However, few have addressed the most immediate question that you posted. Having owned the car for a mere 3 days, liability should be in the hands of the seller. If the seller is a private party, good luck. HOWEVER, if you purchased from a dealer, then you have recourse. Even if you signed a waiver to the effect that you accept the car "as is", there is an implied warranty (contract) that when you purchase a car from an expert that the wheels will not fall off. A dealer is legally considered an expert. I am not an attorney, but have had to deal with similar issues in the past. I would use subterfuge to investigate when the last service was done on the wheels. For example, ask the dealer when the brakes were last bled, or when the wheels were balanced or rotated. The dealer should have done a "reasonable" inspection of the car before selling it, and that should have included inspection of the brakes, or change of fluids, or rotating the tires, etc.

I would have an attorney draft a letter simply stating the facts and the obvious, that they were negligent. Any action would be based on this theory, one of negligence that ultimately led to a potentially life-threatening event.

Good luck.

Jim S.

 

Reading the threads I did not see (or missed) the use of C5a an Antsizing compund that we used for years on all splined wheels with knock offs. I am talking sprint car, midget, XKE any car that had a spline to hub held with a knock-off. Would this not work on the TR? Mine has 5 lugs and I still use the C5a on all my wheels on all our cars. I did see the loss of torque and according to the people who put on the dog and pony show there GAUGE allowed them to do a full torque on every bolt they treated BUT the untreated bond and gave a false reading.
Glad you are OK but that would freak out anybody.

 

i have an 87 TR, with the single nut thing, is this common? (falling off wheels)

 

Rifledriver, would you mind elaborating more on the difference between the TR wheels and the old knock offs. I'm not clear what you mean by male and female threads. Thanks.

 

when you fit new or refurbished wheels to a car you should do a short run 3 miles and tighten the nuts up again as they are always slack as the nuts penetrate the new paint on the wheels

 

Many years ago, I was talking to friends in the house. All of a sudden, a big loud noise bang outside in the street. So we ran out to see, guess what, the Ferrari Testarossa smashed into the curve. One of the wheel came loss and was still rolling on the street as we got there. The owner just got the car and started to enjoy it around the block. I guess its common. He change the wheel to five nuts wheel then...

 

I looked into replacing my spline wheels with the 5-bolt design after I had my accident. It is possible but prohibitively expensive. The consensus with everyone I spoke with is that it would be cheaper just to sell the car and buy an 88.5 or later with the 5-bolts.

From what I remember (and it's been 5 years now), it's not just a matter of changing the hubs - the suspension pickup points changed in 88.5 along with some other things, so there are a lot of peripheral parts that would also have to change.