Hello, My company, Forced Induction Auto Sports, has finalized a deal with Nizpro out of Australia to offer their F355 Twin Turbo kit to members in the local area for finalized testing. The kit has already been ran for several thousand miles and drag launched on another F355 repeatedly with not even a hint of detonation or clutch slippage. What we are looking for is a demo car to write honest opinions of the car, performance, etc. on the board. The demo will get a discounted price on the kit by a few thousand. If interested, please pm me. 9 page original thread: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29754 Thanks! The following is the kit contents: Stage 1 creates 575hp (470whp) at 6psi and contains the following: -Preprogrammed MoTec ECU M800 with plug in loom adaptors (can be upgraded to include traction control, Lambda, logging, and so forth) -MoTec loom and associated fuses -High flow 4-spray fuel injectors -Twin high-flow Garrett GT ball bearing turbochargers -45mm Turbosmart Pro-Gate wastegate -Twin custom high volume tube and fin intercoolers with cast tanks -Thermatic fans on each intercooler with On temp of 28C(83F) and 22C(72F) Off via MoTec switching -Custom large volume Air Cleaner box with low restriction K&N filter element mounted under the hood and associated tubing, cast in aluminum in either polished or powdercoated finish, depending on customer requirements -Turbocharger exhaust manifolds made from 3mm stainless steel or cast depending on application (with catalytic converter or without) -Cast stainless steel wastegate plumbing -Twin cast aluminum pipe from inlet manifold to intercooler pipes -4x76mm rubber "hump" hoses (intercooler/inlet) -6x76mm silicon rubber hoses (turbocharger to intercooler and turbo to air cleaner plumbing) -20 stainless steel hose clamps -2 aluminum weld on -10 sump fittings for turbo drain back hoses (depending on quantity, we will cast a higher volume CNC machined sump with integral drain back holes) -2 braided stainless steel turbo drain back hoses -2 braided stainless steel turbo feed hoses -4 braided stainless steel water feed and return hoses -All copper washers, banjo bolts, T-pieces, gaskets and hose clamps to suit above -High-Flow dual inlet and twin outlet 3-inch in and out stainless steel muffler -CNC laser cut turbo mounting bracket Stage 2 creates 750hp (603whp) at 13psi and contains the following in addition to Stage 1: -High Volume package -Modified programming of MoTec -Modified wastegate -High volume fuel pump
It's great that you have come on board John, now we can only hope that several US Ferrari owners take the plunge and invest in something that literally takes Ferrari performance into the stratosphere. Cheers. Greg Brindley Nizpro
Like many 355 owners, I find the idea of huge HP/TQ improvements from turbocharging or supercharging enticing. BUT I'd also caution that many of us are probably more in lust with the idea, than the reality of what might be in store for us were we to follow this route. Thus, the invitation in the original post to "test" the product on a trial car is wise and admirable. HOWEVER, the major reservation I'd have in using your product stems from my experience with a CUSTOM supercharger I had developed and installed in my BMW M5. Oh yes, we increased rear wheel HP by 50% and Torque by 45%, and oh yes, everyone knew about my project and lusted after my car. But there was a REALITY almost NO ONE mentioned or appreciated that eventually motivated me to disassemble it. The reality is that when things go wrong -- and they will in the form of parts but more often glitches in the engine management system -- NO authorized BMW or Ferrari dealer will help you out. Imagine you're on a trip and it happens. You're stuck. More than that, you have no choice but to be "married" to the outfit that designed and installed because only they are likely to be able to service it for malfunctions. There may be only ONE such outfit in a 1000 miles of where you live. In other words, if you turbocharge, be prepared to be a nervous nelley and keep your car close to home. Now, if you have a stable of cars, lots of money and time to play around, then fine, turborcharge your 355. But if you tend to angst when your car acts up, and turn pale at the thought of another expensive trip to service it, my advice is BEWARE. Don't want to rain on anybody's parade but I have walked the talk -- at least with respect to my M5. There were 100 reasons to supercharge, lots of champage at dyno time, but then the ONE major consideration I raise here killed the joy of it for me -- because, as life would have it, lots of little problems crop up. Cheers, Paul 98 355F1
Are they still supercharging 355s? I had a guy in '99 want to put a supercharger on my car for $12k but I was'nt about to do it, Ferrari bone stock is more than I can handle as it is.
shawsan, You are correct that in most aftermarket F.I. systems, small problems do pop up. However, this kit has been tested for several thousand miles on one car and has been run on the ragged edge and drag raced repeatedly. Yet it still maintains a smooth idle and gives easy driving in traffic. It is also being done on a second car currently, which will reinforce the validity of the TT kit. As far as this compares to your CUSTOM supercharger kit, I do not know what kind of engine management you were using, etc. So to do a comparison based on that is really no comparison, based on the info you provided. What kind of EMS were you using? How much time on the dyno tuning? This system has been tuned and the boost has been upped to 13psi, they did not start at 13psi. The MoTec ECU has been given multiple dyno runs to ensure that no glitches were present. The car has been run under all conditions to eliminate any kind of glitches. For price wise, compare it to the Konig TT kit which is $60K+, will almost the exact same power (780bhp to 740bhp), the kit is priced affordably. But it still is $36K and $39K. By no means a small amount, but comparatively, still great performance for the money. Also for comparison, TechArt makes a Porsche 996 Stage 5 turbo kit for $85000 US to make 750bhp. Daily driving post by the F355TT owner: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134491804&postcount=142 MurcieMurcie, While Ferrari's are excellent car's, some people enjoy modding them to extract maximum performance potential.
FIA Auto Sports Good reply to my concerns. Regarding reprogramming the ECU and engine management on my custom supercharger, that was the major challenge requiring lots of dyno work, re-visits, and unsolved glitches. Sounds like you've dealt with all that and probably a lot more effectively than we did. Regarding raising boost levels incrementally from 6psi to 13psi, that sounds good and the way we approached our system using different pulleys. At 6psi, with intercooler (and 2psi parasitic effects) we didn't need to modify the head. Presume that applies to the 355; but at 13psi can't imagine not having to modify the head, but didn't see anything in your itemized list indicating that. Regarding cost of your system, it's clearly a big ticket item offering big gains. I presume those willing to fork out that kind of $$ will be very dedicated to getting everything right for reasons of their own -- probably more dedicated than I was when I had laid out less than half that amount with primary interest only in increasing street performance. All the best in your quest to adapt/introduce the product in North America. I'll follow your news with interest. Paul 98 355F1
Shawsan, when I read supercharged M5, I kept reading, but you didn't mention who supercharged it. There aren't many tuners who offer a supercharger for an E39 - at least not that I'm aware of. The only descent supercharger for an E39 M5 that I know of is offered by Discovery Automotive. Please share some details with me, about who did the job and how it performed. Thanks
This is a VERY wise post..Not knocking your product..in fact just the opposite..But with custom work come custom problems. But by all your accounts it looks like a good product..but others should be awear of the potential downfalls of such an upgrade.
www.evoms.com Evolution Motorsports has a Porsche kit that makes $750k for about $29k...Closer to $50k if you want the suspension and all the other bells and whistles.
Shawsan, Depending on the car and development of the engine and components is the flow capabilities. I know that some cars cannot handle more than 8-9psi worth of boost, others are capable up to 18psi with no porting whatsoever. So it all depends on the flow capacities. And the F355 engine does have excellent flow capabilities to generate the amount of power that it has. Thanks for the best wishes. tbakowsky, anyone can blow a motor, even an NA one. It is all in how you drive. But with proper tuning, especially with a MoTec, the chances for failure are almost eliminated. The MoTec is the best EMS available on the market right now and is used by most race teams. But with a conservative tune, the TT kit will run flawlessly. And Nizpro has nailed down the tuning of this. Please keep in mind that this is not Nizpro's first turbo vehicle, far from it. they recently had a 1000+hp dyno day, have developed a 350Z TT kit for at least $20K, and a number of other F.I. products. They are considered one of the best MoTec tuners in the tuner world. Rifledriver, no plans of as now to get Smog certified in Ca. that is something that Nizpro would have to do, but even then, it would fail the visual inspection. Unless you had a waiver or knew someone.
I suspect it will fail more than visual. In Ca. the smog machines are hooked to the OBD2 port to look for the correct data, if it's not there, no test.
I am not the manufacturer of the kit, nor have I disassembled the F355 engine. I can look into and see, and I have posed that question to the maker and am waiting for their response. Also, MoTec does not have OBD II readings. However, depending on how stringent the state is, you can pass. I passed MD State inspection with OBD II readings because they could not read my codes at all, saying my ECU was too advanced for their OBD II computer and I got a 3 year waiver. Nizpro has not tested this kit on a smog machine. But is is their belief that with the proper tune, the kit will run as clean as stock. Possibly even cleaner by leaning out the A/F's a little to the 12.5:1 range.
Out of curiosity, was picking a 355 for this project coindicental or intentional ? 360s outnumber 355s, and I would expect owners of older 355s to think twice before making the jump, furthermore considering the abilities of the rest of the package (brakes, chassis). Or is it that such tuning depreciates the car to the extent that fewer 360 owners would go there ? Is the 360 a pain to blow ? Interested in the rationale.
The owner of the F355 wanted a turbo kit and came to Nizpro to make it. Nizpro developed the kit and then came the intention of producing it. If the US owners can embrace this kit and we can sell 8-9, I have talked to Nizpro about an F360TT kit and F430TT kit. The F360 does take to boost, not sure on how well, but there is the twin supercharger kit which utilizes twin centrifugal blowers. Cost wise, that kit is almost $20K more than the Nizpro F355TT kit. But it is almost a guarentee that a TT kit for the F360 will make more power than the twin superchargers. That guarentee lies within the engine capabilities/transmission, and tuning. The F355TT kit has not been tested with the F1 trans, but we do not believe it will cause any fitment or driveability issues. But as it has not been tested, Nizpro is unsure of the strength of the F1 trans as it is different than the manual, as far as fluid, gears, and electronics. But in my previous experiment with sporttronic (for comparison reasons only), the sporty's held the same power with more drivetrain loss. Space restriction is not an issue. The turbo kit will take about 2 days to install with only the "icing on the cake" tuning recommended. The MoTec does come preprogrammed, but since vehicles are different as well as elevations, some changes are beneficial. The kit has been run for over 6000 miles so far and has been run very hard, and Nizpro has not run into a single issue with clutch strength or valve train issues.
I would be interested if I was in a situation where I wouldn't mind "toying" around with the 355. IE...if I bought a 360 or 430 and still kept the 355.
Based off another thread about the strength of the F1 trans, it is the exact same as a manual, so strength issues is a null point. It would be the exact same. We are still looking for a US tester car, please pm for details. For those who love to race, this is a top notch kit that will put your performance on par with million dollar supercars.
I'd love to see some pics of this set-up..... The thing about the 355 is the seemingly sluggish bottom-end, the power-band mostly comes alive once you hit 4,500 rpm+.....seems to me the area that needs the fixin' is the bottom-end. My understanding is that tubro's are all about the top-end, while super-chargers are more about the bottom-end. My figuring is that we really need a bottom-end boost. The whole idea about having 5 valves is to get more in & out. If we're gonna boost the thing, we may as well just have a simple 2-valve set-up and run a high boost?? Seems a shame to go through all the trouble to run 40 valves and them play the turbo game....but heck; power is power! My only concern is that we'd be leaving OEM design. Adding another 100 hp is probably harmless....beyond that and your putting stress, pressure and power to parts that may not be able to handle it. Just some thoughts...
Steve, here are some pics. As far as for superchargers and powerbands, Roots blowers make maximum boost almost right off redline, usually around 1300rpm. But centrifugal blowers (used on the 360 kit) make maximum boost at redline. So you are never really going to be at max boost unless you alter the pulleys and tune differently. Also, with centrifugal blowers, at 1/2 of redline, you are only making 1/4 of the boost. So if you were running 10psi at 8K rpm, at 4K rpm, you would only be making 2 psi. Also, Roots blowers are the most parasitic blowers, whereas turbo's are the least, with the only "draw" being a restriction in the exhaust until the intake becomes pressurized. As far as turbo's, spool time for boost pressure on these twin ball bearing turbo's is about 2000rpm, with max boost coming on within 4700rpm after that, and you still have another 3300rpm at max boost. And with reliability, the inital tester car has been run for over 6000 miles with no hint of detonation, clutch slippage, or drivetrain damage. And the car has been taken to the strip and launched repeatedly. A turbo kit is only as good as it's tuner, and Nizpro is one of the best. Also, other cars I have worked on and with have taken over double OEM horsepower with no reliability issues and even greater mpg. We now have a video, and will be uploading that to our server shortly and post it up. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
F355 Twin Turbo drag video: http://fiautosports.com/Ferrari/images/F355TT_drag.avi For more pics, please visit http://www.fiautosports.com/F355TT.html
great point steve...it is only logical that you are putting great stress to the engine and drive train parts...the car was designed for 380 hp and 270 ft-lbs torque..i would love to take the car out for a spin but would never put it on my car....
